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Old
07-17-2012, 11:15 AM
  #401
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IMO very few athletes have loyality to their teams/cities. They view their sport as a business and make decisions as such. While it sucks for us as fans, think about how you make decisions in your line of work. Would you do the same thing they do?

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07-17-2012, 11:28 AM
  #402
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Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
Unless I win the lottery, I won't continue to spend my limited resources on season tickets, make a 2 hour round trip, pay $6 for a $2 beer, etc... to help pay for a group of mercenaries that have zero loyalty.

If Weber doesn't sign quickly, trade him to the highest bidder in the worst locale. Give him the reward he deserves.

Now if he signs here, all ill will is forgotten.
This will be hard to accomplish considering other teams can talk to him, and if he shows no interest in signing with them they will not offer much in a trade.

We have to face it. If Weber is traded he essentially gets to pick which team. Poile just needs to try to send him East.

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07-17-2012, 12:03 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by crossxcheck View Post
IMO very few athletes have loyality to their teams/cities. They view their sport as a business and make decisions as such. While it sucks for us as fans, think about how you make decisions in your line of work. Would you do the same thing they do?
I own pizza franchises. I don't have any customers that spend near as much in my restaurants as I do on the Preds. None sacrifice other parts of their lives to spend a large chunk of their income buying my pizzas.

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07-17-2012, 12:05 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by lstcyr View Post
I don't remember any one saying that when Sullivan, Ward, etc. left. Weren't they mercenaries also? In fact they're all mercenaries but they're our mercenaries!!
sullivan, ward, etc...... all left cleanly and professionally. ...no spouting off to the press about the "committment level to winning" that was lacking in Nashville and needed to be addressed. And we need to see committment before we sign a contract. They were professionals and handled it that way. Suter and Weber haven't.

if Suter and Weber hadn't made remarks that they wanted to make sure the organization was committed to winning, etc.............they wouldn't be getting roasted or questioned here.

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07-17-2012, 12:26 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
sullivan, ward, etc...... all left cleanly and professionally. ...no spouting off to the press about the "committment level to winning" that was lacking in Nashville and needed to be addressed. And we need to see committment before we sign a contract. They were professionals and handled it that way. Suter and Weber haven't.

if Suter and Weber hadn't made remarks that they wanted to make sure the organization was committed to winning, etc.............they wouldn't be getting roasted or questioned here.
This is far and away the most dead-on, succinct sentence in this whole 2-year debacle.

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07-17-2012, 12:33 PM
  #406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
I own pizza franchises. I don't have any customers that spend near as much in my restaurants as I do on the Preds. None sacrifice other parts of their lives to spend a large chunk of their income buying my pizzas.
No offense meant, but I don't think it's fair to comparea pizza franchise to a hockey franchise. My point is that most people will make a decision on their job based on money, promotion, opportunity, etc. and not loyality to a company (in this case team). There's really no sense in getting emotionally involved in something that is business. I'm not defending Weber or Suter and by all means they should have been adults about their intentions.

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07-17-2012, 12:55 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by crossxcheck View Post
No offense meant, but I don't think it's fair to comparea pizza franchise to a hockey franchise. My point is that most people will make a decision on their job based on money, promotion, opportunity, etc. and not loyality to a company (in this case team). There's really no sense in getting emotionally involved in something that is business. I'm not defending Weber or Suter and by all means they should have been adults about their intentions.
I agree to a point. But as multi-millionaires who've made their money from a passionate, sacrificing customer base, they shouldn't approach contracts without giving significant consideration to ones that have paid their salaries.

My point is that your should not treat your customers poorly. Both Poile and Suter did so. Let's hope Poile doesn't let Weber do the same.

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07-17-2012, 01:20 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by crossxcheck View Post
IMO very few athletes have loyality to their teams/cities. They view their sport as a business and make decisions as such. While it sucks for us as fans, think about how you make decisions in your line of work. Would you do the same thing they do?
You make an interesting point here. We all know that there aren't very many companies left that will have your back when times get tough. It's all about corporate greed and bottom lines now, not personal relationships, etc. I think it's a bit different though for pro athletes.... What I do at work doesn't affect my city and I don't have thousands of fans that pay good money to cheer on my engineering work. I don't have anyone to let down if I decided to move to another company. I don't bring heartbreak to anyone with my career decisions nor do I set back my company by 3-4 years and millions of dollars if I change jobs.

That being said, I want to think its different because pro athletes have the ability to affect so many people both emotionally and financially. But when I put myself in their shoes for a few minutes...... I'm pretty sure I'd look out for #1 before anyone else...I'd do what was best for me and my family. But that being said, I would make sure not to intentionally screw over the people that were good to me at my current job too. (unlike Ryan Suter!!).

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07-17-2012, 01:30 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
sullivan, ward, etc...... all left cleanly and professionally. ...no spouting off to the press about the "committment level to winning" that was lacking in Nashville and needed to be addressed. And we need to see committment before we sign a contract. They were professionals and handled it that way. Suter and Weber haven't.

if Suter and Weber hadn't made remarks that they wanted to make sure the organization was committed to winning, etc.............they wouldn't be getting roasted or questioned here.
It seems like that Weber and Suter both counted on the Preds not stepping up to the plate. The Preds lack of spending and being a budget team is all they've ever known. I'm guessing that they were a bit shocked when the organization came to the plate with almost everything they wanted.. Suter's mind was already made up. I'm not sure yet about Weber's mind. He just might be on the fence of buying into this organization. And if he did, that will be a HUGE step for us.

That being said, does Poile's age have anything to do with Weber's decision to sign long term with us? I come from a background where I've been more of a college fan than pro, and in the college, the number of years on a coach's contract is a big deal. The fact that Poile will most likely retire before Weber plays out a 13 year contract, does that have any bearing here?

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07-17-2012, 02:22 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by predfan98
sullivan, ward, etc...... all left cleanly and professionally. ...no spouting off to the press about the "committment level to winning" that was lacking in Nashville and needed to be addressed. And we need to see committment before we sign a contract. They were professionals and handled it that way. Suter and Weber haven't.

if Suter and Weber hadn't made remarks that they wanted to make sure the organization was committed to winning, etc.............they wouldn't be getting roasted or questioned here.

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Originally Posted by JR303 View Post
This is far and away the most dead-on, succinct sentence in this whole 2-year debacle.
I have to disagree here. Why is so bad that Weber and Suter have questioned the organizations commitment to win? All these guys, since they were kids, have wanted to do two things, play in the NHL and raise the Stanley Cup. If you were going to sign long term somewhere wouldn't you want to know the team you're signing with is committed to winning the way you are? The fact that is was made public should be of no regard. If anything, we as paying fans want to know that the commitment to winning is there too. Do you or anyone else want to pay money year in and year out if we're not going to field a competitive team? Do you want to pay to see our young guys develop only to be signed by other teams when they hit free agency?

I don't have a problem with Weber and Suter questioning this at all. I question the teams commitment to winning sometimes. While the owners have promised spending, we have seen it only with Rinne and while they can't hold a gun to Suter or Weber, there is something wrong when the money is basically the same only to see the players go to another team. We'll see what happens with Weber. If he leaves, if I were an owner I'd question why our top young players are leaving.

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07-17-2012, 02:29 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
We'll see what happens with Weber. If he leaves, if I were an owner I'd question why our top young players are leaving.
This is the bottom line....

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07-17-2012, 03:12 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Originally Posted by predfan98
sullivan, ward, etc...... all left cleanly and professionally. ...no spouting off to the press about the "committment level to winning" that was lacking in Nashville and needed to be addressed. And we need to see committment before we sign a contract. They were professionals and handled it that way. Suter and Weber haven't.

if Suter and Weber hadn't made remarks that they wanted to make sure the organization was committed to winning, etc.............they wouldn't be getting roasted or questioned here.



I have to disagree here. Why is so bad that Weber and Suter have questioned the organizations commitment to win? All these guys, since they were kids, have wanted to do two things, play in the NHL and raise the Stanley Cup. If you were going to sign long term somewhere wouldn't you want to know the team you're signing with is committed to winning the way you are? The fact that is was made public should be of no regard. If anything, we as paying fans want to know that the commitment to winning is there too. Do you or anyone else want to pay money year in and year out if we're not going to field a competitive team? Do you want to pay to see our young guys develop only to be signed by other teams when they hit free agency?

I don't have a problem with Weber and Suter questioning this at all. I question the teams commitment to winning sometimes. While the owners have promised spending, we have seen it only with Rinne and while they can't hold a gun to Suter or Weber, there is something wrong when the money is basically the same only to see the players go to another team. We'll see what happens with Weber. If he leaves, if I were an owner I'd question why our top young players are leaving.
if you look back at the conversation I was responding to the comment that wondered why we didn't look at ward and sullivan the same way that we look at weber and suter. In context, that is why I made this remark.

Frankly, I don't doubt that all players want to win, that the coach wants to win, that the owners and organization want to win. I believe the owners and Poile are committed to spending the $. There is no payback to the owners unless we win. If the money spent on our salary is low right now....welll, they had that $ committed to Suter. A lot of our players are unsigned.

However rarely here do you have the debacle of weber and suter holding the organization hostage to "prove you are committed by spending $, we don't believe it"
They put it out there in public , unprofessionally. And frankly, I think it has made Poile's job very impossible... Now, it's another question whether or not he is the best man for the job.

If there is a problem in the organization and we are too "kind or trusting"..... bring in Tortorella!!
There may be a problem....... but Weber and Suter have both been extremely unprofessional.

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07-17-2012, 03:23 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
if you look back at the conversation I was responding to the comment that wondered why we didn't look at ward and sullivan the same way that we look at weber and suter. In context, that is why I made this remark.

Frankly, I don't doubt that all players want to win, that the coach wants to win, that the owners and organization want to win. I believe the owners and Poile are committed to spending the $. There is no payback to the owners unless we win. If the money spent on our salary is low right now....welll, they had that $ committed to Suter. A lot of our players are unsigned.

However rarely here do you have the debacle of weber and suter holding the organization hostage to "prove you are committed by spending $, we don't believe it"
They put it out there in public , unprofessionally. And frankly, I think it has made Poile's job very impossible... Now, it's another question whether or not he is the best man for the job.

If there is a problem in the organization and we are too "kind or trusting"..... bring in Tortorella!!
There may be a problem....... but Weber and Suter have both been extremely unprofessional.
How did they hold them hostage? The owners said they'd spend the money. They did with Rinne. Other than that, have they? No. I think Weber and Suter wanted to see the big long term commitment. Even now the owners have not shown that ability to drop the coin. I know the offer was out there for Suter. I know they've talked to Weber and I'm sure the money is there. Why are they not signing? Is it the guys holding them hostage or is there some big underlying problem we don't get to see. Weber and Suter both have an insight we don't have and maybe they have seen things that make them go, there's a lot of talk but nothing to back it up.

As far as being professional, who cares if Ward or Sully had made comments like that? Ward is a grinder and Sully is a vet who was a good player. Suter and Weber are elite players you build teams around and their voice is valued a lot more IMO than guys who are parts.

I will say this, it's funny that Poile and Weber were surprised by Suter's signing but we haven't heard from anyone else, like Fisher or Rinne or anyone else in the leadership group.

To me, something is not adding up. Guys always talk about loving it in Nashville. They love the team. They respect Trotz. Poile is one of the most respected GM's in the NHL. Then why the ******* are guys not wanting to sign long term? Let's figure that one out and we'll have a great team for years to come. If we don't, it's going to be a constant roller coaster.

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07-17-2012, 03:35 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
How did they hold them hostage? The owners said they'd spend the money. They did with Rinne. Other than that, have they? No. I think Weber and Suter wanted to see the big long term commitment. Even now the owners have not shown that ability to drop the coin. I know the offer was out there for Suter. I know they've talked to Weber and I'm sure the money is there. Why are they not signing? Is it the guys holding them hostage or is there some big underlying problem we don't get to see. Weber and Suter both have an insight we don't have and maybe they have seen things that make them go, there's a lot of talk but nothing to back it up.

As far as being professional, who cares if Ward or Sully had made comments like that? Ward is a grinder and Sully is a vet who was a good player. Suter and Weber are elite players you build teams around and their voice is valued a lot more IMO than guys who are parts.

I will say this, it's funny that Poile and Weber were surprised by Suter's signing but we haven't heard from anyone else, like Fisher or Rinne or anyone else in the leadership group.

To me, something is not adding up. Guys always talk about loving it in Nashville. They love the team. They respect Trotz. Poile is one of the most respected GM's in the NHL. Then why the ******* are guys not wanting to sign long term? Let's figure that one out and we'll have a great team for years to come. If we don't, it's going to be a constant roller coaster.
If you don't think Suter has been lying all year long, when there are multiple reports that he has been talking about doing this with Parise all season, then I really don't know what to say.

He's lied to people here, in person. He's lied to the newspapers. He's lied to Poile.

He's not an example of why players don't sign in Nashville. He's a little ****. He did'nt give Poile an opportunity to have the last bid. I don't think you can logically use Suter not signing as an example of the owners haven't dropped the cash and shown the committment bs.

Rinne signed long term. He's happy here.

Sports is a roller coaster. That's a given.

Just because Weber and Suter are "elite players" they don't get to lie.

Frankly, I think you just like to argue with me. It wouldn't matter what I said.

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07-17-2012, 03:41 PM
  #415
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Obviously Detroit would have to overpay for Weber, and I know Poile will not trade to Detroit, but I think it'd be reasonable to offer Hank, Cleary/Bert/Abs, any defensive prospect that's not Smith, and Tatar. Then maybe overpay with some picks? I'm not going to act like I'm good at these trade value things, flame easy please.

Detroit would have to absolutely sign one if not two of Semin and Doan.

Nashville finally loses a great defenseman for something and not nothing.

Also, as much as I hate the wings playing against Nashville, I love watching Nashville play other teams. I know this makes me unlike most wings fans, but I still think the Preds have a great team, stoked to watch some of your guys games this year.
Z is a good start. Abdelkader would the one of the three I pick from that group. The hang up is "any defensive prospect that's not Smith" Basically, you're saying we can't have a defensive prospect that would be ahead of our three top d prospects, so it makes even picking one kind of pointless.

I'd rather just take Dats and a pick than Z, Abdelkader, a defensive prospect who will likely mire in Milwaukee behind Josi, Ellis, Blum, and Ekholm, and a center prospect (we have quite a few of those already, though I do like Tatar).

Honestly, though, keeping Weber out of Detroit should be a priority.

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07-17-2012, 03:46 PM
  #416
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Keeping Weber period should be the priority.

Losing the best player we've ever had will hurt, especially the best home grown player.

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07-17-2012, 03:48 PM
  #417
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I agree, but I was saying in the event of a trade keeping him out of Detroit should be a priority.

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07-17-2012, 04:09 PM
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How did they hold them hostage? The owners said they'd spend the money. They did with Rinne. Other than that, have they? No. I think Weber and Suter wanted to see the big long term commitment. Even now the owners have not shown that ability to drop the coin. I know the offer was out there for Suter. I know they've talked to Weber and I'm sure the money is there. Why are they not signing? Is it the guys holding them hostage or is there some big underlying problem we don't get to see. Weber and Suter both have an insight we don't have and maybe they have seen things that make them go, there's a lot of talk but nothing to back it up.

As far as being professional, who cares if Ward or Sully had made comments like that? Ward is a grinder and Sully is a vet who was a good player. Suter and Weber are elite players you build teams around and their voice is valued a lot more IMO than guys who are parts.

I will say this, it's funny that Poile and Weber were surprised by Suter's signing but we haven't heard from anyone else, like Fisher or Rinne or anyone else in the leadership group.

To me, something is not adding up. Guys always talk about loving it in Nashville. They love the team. They respect Trotz. Poile is one of the most respected GM's in the NHL. Then why the ******* are guys not wanting to sign long term? Let's figure that one out and we'll have a great team for years to come. If we don't, it's going to be a constant roller coaster.
Usually I agree with most things you say, in principal at least, but I still think this is a chicken/egg concept. And I do have a nagging discomfort associated with your last sentence, but again, how can you not have a "long-term commitment" with 7 / 10/ 13 year contract offers at HUGE salaries?

I fully believe the owners are/were ready to spend the $ on Rinne / Suter / Weber. If all 3 of those were signed here, with SK, Wilson and a free agent, that's going to be a big, big bump in payroll. Also, Poile had to obtain players to show his commitment to winning, but he also has to do that within his plan, and that plan consisted of building a damn good team around arguably the best defensive pairing in the entire world. Like it or not, we were planning on them being the foundation of our team for the rest of their careers, and their indecisiveness has handcuffed Poile from as early as last summer.

I think at this point, in retrospect, had Weber signed, Suter still wouldn't be here. I got the impression that Weber is rather easily influenced after his remarks at the ASG, which rolled in after Suter's. Suter on the other hand, just didn't seem to want to be here the second half of the season. And that's fine, just don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining. I don't have any qualms with the fact that he went for the $ and the "family home" stuff, but I do have an issue with all of his statements that have been contrary to his actions.

Regardless, he's gone, and while I hope Weber stays, the team will still be competitive. I think a full season of Hal Gill will help with some of the younger guys, and it never hurts to play in front of one of the 3 best goaltenders in the world, either.

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07-17-2012, 04:57 PM
  #419
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He's not an example of why players don't sign in Nashville. He's a little ****. He did'nt give Poile an opportunity to have the last bid.
Just wondering whether we'd feel differently if Suter had given Poile the chance to match/beat the offer but then decided on Minnesota for family reasons anyway.

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07-17-2012, 05:01 PM
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Why are they not signing? Is it the guys holding them hostage or is there some big underlying problem we don't get to see. Weber and Suter both have an insight we don't have and maybe they have seen things that make them go, there's a lot of talk but nothing to back it up.

To me, something is not adding up. Guys always talk about loving it in Nashville. They love the team. They respect Trotz. Poile is one of the most respected GM's in the NHL. Then why the ******* are guys not wanting to sign long term? Let's figure that one out and we'll have a great team for years to come. If we don't, it's going to be a constant roller coaster.
In Suter (and Weber's) case, we should keep in mind that both are still relatively young and relatively newly married/to be married. Remembering back to the earlier days of my marriage, my spouse had a LOT to say about where we lived. When I first told my wife I was offered a promotion to Oklahoma, the initial response was NFW. I convinced her but she still says it was the worst time of her life. Never underestimate the power of the female in the relationship.

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07-17-2012, 05:30 PM
  #421
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Just wondering whether we'd feel differently if Suter had given Poile the chance to match/beat the offer but then decided on Minnesota for family reasons anyway.
It's been reported that Suter and Parise took less money to go Minny. Parise in fact took less money from Minny so their contracts would match. Their decision wasn't about the bottom line so honestly Poile's comments don't make sense to me. Sounds more like him trying to save face

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07-17-2012, 05:51 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post

I have to disagree here. Why is so bad that Weber and Suter have questioned the organizations commitment to win? All these guys, since they were kids, have wanted to do two things, play in the NHL and raise the Stanley Cup. If you were going to sign long term somewhere wouldn't you want to know the team you're signing with is committed to winning the way you are? The fact that is was made public should be of no regard. If anything, we as paying fans want to know that the commitment to winning is there too. Do you or anyone else want to pay money year in and year out if we're not going to field a competitive team? Do you want to pay to see our young guys develop only to be signed by other teams when they hit free agency?

I don't have a problem with Weber and Suter questioning this at all. I question the teams commitment to winning sometimes. While the owners have promised spending, we have seen it only with Rinne and while they can't hold a gun to Suter or Weber, there is something wrong when the money is basically the same only to see the players go to another team. We'll see what happens with Weber. If he leaves, if I were an owner I'd question why our top young players are leaving.
$uter Signed with Minnesota a team that has historically showed less commitment to winning than the Predators.

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07-17-2012, 06:40 PM
  #423
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No offense meant, but I don't think it's fair to comparea pizza franchise to a hockey franchise. My point is that most people will make a decision on their job based on money, promotion, opportunity, etc. and not loyality to a company (in this case team). There's really no sense in getting emotionally involved in something that is business. I'm not defending Weber or Suter and by all means they should have been adults about their intentions.
Wait what? Weren't you the one who originally came up with comparing everyone's places of work to Parise's and Suter's places of work?

Obviously there are different levels of this. An employee of Greenpeace, a political party, an art institute or a charity may well identify with his work a lot more than a dish washer at a pizza franchise and chose to stay for less money. You were the one who compared all work places as equal and all work related decisions as the same for everyone. You made a faulty comparison to begin.

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07-17-2012, 08:16 PM
  #424
Sacram3nt
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The only places, based on what we would get in return, I would want to see Shea go are Philly and NYR.

Something with Philly would have to require either both Schenns or Sean Couturier in my eyes, in addition to other things like draft picks.

A trade with NYR would require Kreider and Del Zotto plus draft picks.

The only other place I would maybe like to see him go is Boston so we could get Dougie Hamilton from them.

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07-17-2012, 10:20 PM
  #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacram3nt View Post
The only places, based on what we would get in return, I would want to see Shea go are Philly and NYR.

Something with Philly would have to require either both Schenns or Sean Couturier in my eyes, in addition to other things like draft picks.

A trade with NYR would require Kreider and Del Zotto plus draft picks.

The only other place I would maybe like to see him go is Boston so we could get Dougie Hamilton from them.

Krieder is not getting traded at this point. The Rangers would dangle a package around Staal. They will trade from strength, not from weakness.

The Rangers are too high on Krieder to trade him, and their need on Defense is not as desperate as other teams to make him expendable.

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