HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

New Deals Coming Soon for Quincey, Abdelkader

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-17-2012, 11:21 AM
  #26
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
Sarcasm?

My guess is Q gets $4million for 3 years and Abby gets $1.75million for 3/4 years.
This is pitiful spin doctoring, propsy.

You're guessing high so you can defend it when it comes in lower.

There is no way in hell you really believe that.

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 11:29 AM
  #27
norrisnick
Registered User
 
norrisnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 16,243
vCash: 500
Why is everyone so pessimistic? Deals could mean trades... that's a deal, right? Right?!?!!

norrisnick is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 11:29 AM
  #28
FlashyG
Registered User
 
FlashyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronwalled55 View Post
Hit stats are probably the most misleading stat in the league along with +/-. They're very inaccurate too. The guy finishes checks, I don't consider that "hitting." He takes dumb penalties, and also has little offensive upside.
So you're saying that the Statistician's just made up the 50+ hits he led the other forwards by?

Is there some sort of grand conspiracy to get Abdelkader a new contract? Or do you only count a hit if the target gets Kronwalled?

He draws far more penalties than he takes, only Helm draws more.

If you don't want him back what do you want our checking line to be?

FlashyG is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 11:48 AM
  #29
joe89
#5
 
joe89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Sweden
Posts: 16,799
vCash: 500
I like the $1.25M mentioned for Abdelkader. That would be a good deal and also makes him a trade asset.

joe89 is online now  
Old
07-17-2012, 11:51 AM
  #30
Winger98
Moderator
powers combined
 
Winger98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 13,858
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Winger98
I want Gator back, just not at the near $2m level that was tossed around in an earlier article. This article, guessing that he'll come in around $1.25m is better, but not great.

__________________
blah, blah, blah
Winger98 is online now  
Old
07-17-2012, 11:53 AM
  #31
WingsMike
Registered Man
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 954
vCash: 738
Those of you not wanting Abdelkader...Who would be the better option?

And I really think we need Quincey. We just don't have enough D's on the team right now and it's not like we are near the salary cap.

WingsMike is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 12:04 PM
  #32
ProPAIN
I am the Danger!
 
ProPAIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Paris
Country: Belgium
Posts: 11,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
This is pitiful spin doctoring, propsy.

You're guessing high so you can defend it when it comes in lower.

There is no way in hell you really believe that.
No Bobsy, I genuinely think these guys will get very close to those values. With the money being thrown around the league and salary cap rising every year, there is no reason why Q will get "2nd pairing" money and Abby doesn't get 4th line/3rd line replacement money.

Maybe I'm guessing a little too high for Q, but not that much.

ProPAIN is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 12:15 PM
  #33
Capsized
Parity is a Disease
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,390
vCash: 500
Darren Helm and a cast of thousands..........no wait...that is what we have now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
If you don't want him back what do you want our checking line to be?

Capsized is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 12:25 PM
  #34
DetBigWangs
Registered User
 
DetBigWangs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,155
vCash: 500
Abdelkader at just over 1M isn't bad. The worst players we have, relative to contract or just plain useless, are Cleary, Emmerton, and Eaves (not entirely his fault though). Shipping them for futures and signing Semin or Doan would be a solid move I'd think.

1 Datsyuk
2 Zetterberg
3 Doan/Semin
4 Filppula
5 Franzen
6 Helm
7 Nyquist
8 Bertuzzi
9 Tootoo
10 Miller
11 Samuelsson
12 Brunner
13 Abdelkader
14 Mursak

That's 4 lines plus a couple of reserves. Sounds about right for a Red Wings season. Think that'd be a good move?

DetBigWangs is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 12:34 PM
  #35
Henkka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 8,860
vCash: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronwalled55 View Post
He takes dumb penalties
Penalties drawn/taken "plus-minus":

Forwards:
1. Joakim Andersson +1.8 -0.0 = +1.8
2. Darren Helm +2.1 -0.4 = +1.7
3. Pavel Datsyuk +1.0 -0.2 = +0.8
4. Justin Abdelkader +1.5 -0.9 = +0.6

5. Jan Mursak +0.6 -0.0 = +0.6
6. Cory Emmerton +1.2 -0.8 = +0.4
7. Gustav Nyquist +0.7 -0.3 = +0.4
8. Tomas Holmström +1.3 -1.0 = +0.3
9. Drew Miller +0.7 -0.4 = +0.3
10. Valtteri Filppula +0.7 -0.4 = +0.3
11. Mikael Samuelsson +0.9 -0.7 = +0.2
12. Jordin Tootoo +1.2 -1.0 = +0.2

13. Henrik Zetterberg +0.7 -0.5 = +0.2
14. Fabian Brunnström +1.3 -1.3 = 0.0
15. Johan Franzen +0.7 -0.7 = 0.0
16. Dan Cleary +0.5 -0.5 = 0.0
17. Chris Conner +0.0 -0.0 = 0.0
------------------------------
18. Jiri Hudler +0.6 -0.9 = -0.3
19. Patrick Eaves +0.0 -0.6 = -0.6
20. Todd Bertuzzi +0.6 -1.3 = -0.7

Defence:
1. Brendan Smith +1.6 -1.3 = +0.3
2. Brad Stuart +0.5 -0.4 = +0.1
3. Jakub Kindl +0.7 -0.6 = +0.1
-----------------------------
4. Ian White +0.3 -0.4 = -0.1
5. Niklas Kronwall +0.5 -0.8 = -0.3
6. Nicklas Lidström +0.0 -0.6 = -0.6
7. Jonathan Ericsson +0.5 -1.3 = -0.8
8. Doug Janik +0.5 -1.5 = -1.0
9. Kyle Quincey +0.4 -1.6 = -1.2


Every forward exept injury-riddled Eaves or Todd Bertuzzi are guys that you can accuse about dump penalties. All the other guys are not any kind of liabilities on this team.


Last edited by Henkka: 07-17-2012 at 12:42 PM.
Henkka is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 12:36 PM
  #36
doublejack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Detroit
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,123
vCash: 500
Abdelkader >> Emmerton, and those are our two realistic choices for 4th line center. I would be ok with Abdelkader making up to 1.5M a season, although hopefully he will cost a bit less.

I have to add another "really, some posters weren't expecting both Quincey and Gator back?" comment. It was obvious both players are in our short term plans. Gator will be here a few more years at least. Q might be one and done if it gets to arbitration.

doublejack is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 12:56 PM
  #37
Henkka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 8,860
vCash: 528
Boston signed Chris Kelly for 3 million and Gregory Campbell for 1.6 million. Both were UFA's and quite comparable to what Helm and Abdelkader are for Wings.

Helm got 2.1 million, so Abelkader should go something under 1.5 IMO. They RFA's so they're going to get less than those Boston UFA's.

When you look at their scoring, Kelly is little bit better than Helm and Abdelkader is a bit better than Campbell. Both comparables have exactly the same roles in their teams. Kelly is the 3rd line center and penalty killer, Campbell is the 4th line center/winger + penalty killer.

Henkka is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 01:13 PM
  #38
SoupNazi
Global Moderator
No Soup for You!!!
 
SoupNazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kramerica Industries
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,823
vCash: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
No Bobsy, I genuinely think these guys will get very close to those values. With the money being thrown around the league and salary cap rising every year, there is no reason why Q will get "2nd pairing" money and Abby doesn't get 4th line/3rd line replacement money.

Maybe I'm guessing a little too high for Q, but not that much.
I think you're right on the money, Propsy. Quincey was rumored to be asking for $4 million and I'm guessing he gets close to that figure.

SoupNazi is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 01:26 PM
  #39
Winger98
Moderator
powers combined
 
Winger98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 13,858
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Winger98
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
Abdelkader >> Emmerton, and those are our two realistic choices for 4th line center. I would be ok with Abdelkader making up to 1.5M a season, although hopefully he will cost a bit less.

I have to add another "really, some posters weren't expecting both Quincey and Gator back?" comment. It was obvious both players are in our short term plans. Gator will be here a few more years at least. Q might be one and done if it gets to arbitration.
Again, for the initial rumored asking price, I was wondering if the Wings wouldn't use Gator as trade bait to help bring in another D. Fourth line center just isn't a space that I worry too much over, or would blow nearly $2m on. Instead, go hard after Semin and Doan, then try to swing some smaller deals with guys like Gator, Miller Mursak, Emmerton, etc. to fill out the bottom half of our D.

Winger98 is online now  
Old
07-17-2012, 01:37 PM
  #40
Osgood As It Gets
The Underdog
 
Osgood As It Gets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,119
vCash: 651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forty View Post
30 point scorer?

He set career highs last season with 22 points and 8 goals.
Hey, I was trying to be generous. What I wanted to say that he will be a 30 point 3rd/4th liner, in the Kopecky / Halischuk / Neil crowd.

Osgood As It Gets is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 01:49 PM
  #41
Frk It
#FireHolland
 
Frk It's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 9,654
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingsMike View Post
Those of you not wanting Abdelkader...Who would be the better option?
Colby Armstrong, Taylor Pyatt, David Moss.

Should have signed one or more of them, and let Abdelkader and others walk. Upgrade the bottom 6.

Frk It is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 02:16 PM
  #42
doublejack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Detroit
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Again, for the initial rumored asking price, I was wondering if the Wings wouldn't use Gator as trade bait to help bring in another D. Fourth line center just isn't a space that I worry too much over, or would blow nearly $2m on. Instead, go hard after Semin and Doan, then try to swing some smaller deals with guys like Gator, Miller Mursak, Emmerton, etc. to fill out the bottom half of our D.
Well I agree his role is far from vital, but that's also a reason why I don't see the logic in using Gator as bait to improve the D. He would be nothing more than a warm body thrown in any deal, at least in terms of bringing in D that would make a difference. The exception is if someone is as high on him as say LA was on Avery in the Schneider deal. I don't see that, though.

Rather, I'm much more intrigued by the possibility of throwing Gator and Tootoo on a line and watching them run people over 40 seconds at a time. If he has any real value to the organization, I think that's the form it will take. He doesn't fight, but he does play a game similar to the one Maltby used to. I feel that is a key for a winning team. Nearly $2m a season is a lot for that, but it doesn't break the bank.

Really, I don't think any of the names you threw out there will be sufficient trade bait. If we are going to land a top pairing defender, it will probably cost us something like Filppula. We can pick up a borderline second / third pairing guy anywhere, and even then it doesn't help as we have a plethora of them.

doublejack is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 02:47 PM
  #43
Osgood As It Gets
The Underdog
 
Osgood As It Gets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,119
vCash: 651
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post

Rather, I'm much more intrigued by the possibility of throwing Gator and Tootoo on a line and watching them run people over 40 seconds at a time. If he has any real value to the organization, I think that's the form it will take. He doesn't fight, but he does play a game similar to the one Maltby used to. I feel that is a key for a winning team. Nearly $2m a season is a lot for that, but it doesn't break the bank.
An Abdelkader-Helm-Tootoo line would be awesome to watch, Helm and Tootoo do have some offensive punch to go with it also.

Osgood As It Gets is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 02:51 PM
  #44
doublejack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Detroit
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HardingsJockstrap View Post
An Abdelkader-Helm-Tootoo line would be awesome to watch, Helm and Tootoo do have some offensive punch to go with it also.
I like that, although we lack a decent 4th line center at that point.

Abdelkader has decent hands, too. He hasn't shown it consistently at the NHL level yet, but there have been flashes here and there. His hands are softer than those of Draper, for example.

doublejack is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 03:13 PM
  #45
FlashyG
Registered User
 
FlashyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Colby Armstrong, Taylor Pyatt, David Moss.

Should have signed one or more of them, and let Abdelkader and others walk. Upgrade the bottom 6.
Just to compare.

Abdelkader - pts 22 - hits 148 - Penalty differential +.6 - faceoff % 52.6 (452 taken)
Armstrong - pts 3 - hits 37 - Penalty differential +.4 - Faceoff % 38.9 (18 taken)
Pyatt - pts 19 - hits 137 - Penalty differential +.2 - Faceoff % 54.5 (11 taken)
Moss - pts 9 - hits 43 - Penalty Differential E - Faceoff % 42.3 (220 taken)

So Abby leads in Hits, Pts, hurts the team the least in the penalty department, and is the only faceoff man of the group. He's also by far the youngest.

Pyatt is the only one even comparable and he isn't even a 4th liner and definitely not a 4th line center.

FlashyG is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 03:17 PM
  #46
jroc86
Registered User
 
jroc86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 337
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HardingsJockstrap View Post
An Abdelkader-Helm-Tootoo line would be awesome to watch, Helm and Tootoo do have some offensive punch to go with it also.
Agreed totally. Abby-Helm-Tootoo line would have more energy than a chimpanzee on cocaine. It could fit even without additions to the lineup:

Nyquist. Datsyuk. Bertuzzi
Franzen. Zetterberg. Sammy
Cleary. Filpula. Brunner
Abby. Helm. Tootoo
Miller. Andersson. Tatar

jroc86 is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 03:20 PM
  #47
Winger98
Moderator
powers combined
 
Winger98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 13,858
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Winger98
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
Well I agree his role is far from vital, but that's also a reason why I don't see the logic in using Gator as bait to improve the D. He would be nothing more than a warm body thrown in any deal, at least in terms of bringing in D that would make a difference. The exception is if someone is as high on him as say LA was on Avery in the Schneider deal. I don't see that, though.

Rather, I'm much more intrigued by the possibility of throwing Gator and Tootoo on a line and watching them run people over 40 seconds at a time. If he has any real value to the organization, I think that's the form it will take. He doesn't fight, but he does play a game similar to the one Maltby used to. I feel that is a key for a winning team. Nearly $2m a season is a lot for that, but it doesn't break the bank.

Really, I don't think any of the names you threw out there will be sufficient trade bait. If we are going to land a top pairing defender, it will probably cost us something like Filppula. We can pick up a borderline second / third pairing guy anywhere, and even then it doesn't help as we have a plethora of them.
I think there's a fair chance someone has value for the guy that's along the lines of LA going gaga for Avery (though not quite to the extent of drawing in a guy like Schneider). Then again, I was aiming for a guy to fill out the bottom third of our blueline, someone along the lines of the rumored Yannick Weber from a week or two ago.

I think we see Abdelkader pretty similarly, though. I just disliked the idea of the near $2m tag being thrown around a few weeks back and see as expendable at that price. for the now rumored $1.25m? I can deal with it.

I'm hoping we don't see Flip moved, though. It might bring an upgrade on the blueline, but I don't want to see our top6 after that - unless Holland's moved hard on Doan/Semin, preferably both.

Winger98 is online now  
Old
07-17-2012, 03:24 PM
  #48
Harnessed in Slums
Registered User
 
Harnessed in Slums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 9,370
vCash: 500
I've generally been of the opinion I could take or leave Abby. He's at his best as a winger, he just flat out sucks as a center. So if you need to pay a premium because he's a center who can take faceoffs I don't see the value there. Anything less than $1.5mm is fine given the current cap and that he has the potential to become a bit better. I just can't get worked up over him at all.

For Q they better take him to arbitration and ask for a 1 year deal. I can't see tying up any more than 1 year worth of cap space on a guy who did not look good when he was traded here. You can't make a long term commitment to a guy who you do not know whether he can fill the role you traded him for and who has basically been cast aside by three franchises.

Harnessed in Slums is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 03:48 PM
  #49
Frk It
#FireHolland
 
Frk It's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 9,654
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
Just to compare.

Abdelkader - pts 22 - hits 148 - Penalty differential +.6 - faceoff % 52.6 (452 taken)
Armstrong - pts 3 - hits 37 - Penalty differential +.4 - Faceoff % 38.9 (18 taken)
Pyatt - pts 19 - hits 137 - Penalty differential +.2 - Faceoff % 54.5 (11 taken)
Moss - pts 9 - hits 43 - Penalty Differential E - Faceoff % 42.3 (220 taken)

So Abby leads in Hits, Pts, hurts the team the least in the penalty department, and is the only faceoff man of the group. He's also by far the youngest.

Pyatt is the only one even comparable and he isn't even a 4th liner and definitely not a 4th line center.
Convenient that you used a season where Colby Armstrong and David Moss only played 32 and 29 games.

How about career best seasons?

Armstrong- 40 points
Moss-39 points
Pyatt-37 points
Abdelkader-22 points

All 3 players are better all-around hockey players than Abdelkader as well, in my opinion.

Frk It is offline  
Old
07-17-2012, 04:04 PM
  #50
newfy
Registered User
 
newfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Convenient that you used a season where Colby Armstrong and David Moss only played 32 and 29 games.

How about career best seasons?

Armstrong- 40 points
Moss-39 points
Pyatt-37 points
Abdelkader-22 points

All 3 players are better all-around hockey players than Abdelkader as well, in my opinion.
Colby Armstrong is a complete band aid and a joke of a hockey player, all my leaf fan buddies were pumped the day he got bought out. And yeah he had a career high playing with Crosby...

All of those guys are at best comoparable to Abdelkader, this is just a case of the grass is always greener. None are tougher hockey players however. With Brad May on his line, Abby ran around and played tougher I have a feeling Tootoo will rub off on him. Especially if Abdelkader is at wing.

[mod edit] You dont get tougher by adding Tootoo, you play Tootoo with ABdelkader to become a tougher team. Hes young, played with Emmerton and Homer and still hit 22 points from the 4th line and was by far our most physical forward last season.

newfy is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:23 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.