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Free Agency IV (The Mattieuw Purrettu Super Sized Edition)

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Old
07-17-2012, 04:46 PM
  #876
caps4cup
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Thats your perspective, Tex. I respect it, just dont agree with it. Last year, I felt maybe we could do something...but in looking at what LA was doing, we didnt stand a chance, really.

Using your window (last 4 years). We finished 5th-8th 2x, and 9th-16th 2x. In looking at it from that perspective, I would consider that relatively mediocre in a 30 team league.

Sure, 5th-8th is good, and better than mediocre. But 9th-16th is right in the middle of mediocre. Couple that with the years preceeding it, including last year mediocre regular season (15th out of 30), and I am comfortable with mediocre.
Don't know where you're getting those numbers from...

2007-2008 - 12th in NHL
2008-2009 - 4th in NHL
2009-2010 - 1st in NHL
2010-2011 - 2nd in NHL
2011-2012 - 15th in NHL

There is one year of being mediocre right there, last year. And sometimes, **** happens. Ovechkin and Semin had the worst year of their careers (since the lockout for Semin), Backstrom and Green missed half the year, Vokoun didn't play as much and as well as expected, and worst of all the team had 2 bonehead coaches. Even with 2 awful coaches, and awful systems, the Caps would've won the division and reached 100 points (which would've placed them top 10 in the NHL) if Backstrom and Green played even 60 games apiece. That's not scan factoring in that Ovechkin and Semin both could've scored at least 5-10g more if those 2 were healthy. Last year was just a bad year, the team on the ice played mediocre, but their best forward and Dman were hurt for half the year apiece, and coaching had alot more of a negative effect than many realize IMO.

And I wouldn't call 07-08 mediocre, as I think we were top 3 in the NHL after BB took over, and that was the team that played in the playoffs, not the awful team under Hanlon.

So in the last 5 years, that's 4 top 4 finishes in the NHL (again, using BB's record in 07-08), and one mediocre year, which not by coincidence, was the year where the team had key injuries.

I guarantee that if you told any fan of any team in the league that they'd have 4 top 4 finishes, and just 1 mediocre year, the next 5 years (through 2017), they'd be ecstatic.

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07-17-2012, 04:51 PM
  #877
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Poor Semin, has to now wait for Doan to sign.

I feel badly for Datsyuk.

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07-17-2012, 04:52 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Feel free to name them. Off the top of my head, the $7ish cap hit ufas that didn't work are Bouwmeester and Gomez.
how many have the flyers had over the years adjusted for inflation including the most recent bryzgalov? the rangers have had numerous beyond just gaborik and richards.
i'd add paul martin and michalek to that list.

the list is long.

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07-17-2012, 04:55 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
how many have the flyers had over the years adjusted for inflation including the most recent bryzgalov? the rangers have had numerous beyond just gaborik and richards.
i'd add paul martin and michalek to that list.

the list is long.
You know what list is really short?

The list of Cup winners without an impact UFA signing.

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07-17-2012, 04:56 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by SwedishMeatballs1990 View Post
Don't know where you're getting those numbers from...

2007-2008 - 12th in NHL
2008-2009 - 4th in NHL
2009-2010 - 1st in NHL
2010-2011 - 2nd in NHL
2011-2012 - 15th in NHL

There is one year of being mediocre right there, last year. And sometimes, **** happens. Ovechkin and Semin had the worst year of their careers (since the lockout for Semin), Backstrom and Green missed half the year, Vokoun didn't play as much and as well as expected, and worst of all the team had 2 bonehead coaches. Even with 2 awful coaches, and awful systems, the Caps would've won the division and reached 100 points (which would've placed them top 10 in the NHL) if Backstrom and Green played even 60 games apiece. That's not scan factoring in that Ovechkin and Semin both could've scored at least 5-10g more if those 2 were healthy. Last year was just a bad year, the team on the ice played mediocre, but their best forward and Dman were hurt for half the year apiece, and coaching had alot more of a negative effect than many realize IMO.

And I wouldn't call 07-08 mediocre, as I think we were top 3 in the NHL after BB took over, and that was the team that played in the playoffs, not the awful team under Hanlon.

So in the last 5 years, that's 4 top 4 finishes in the NHL (again, using BB's record in 07-08), and one mediocre year, which not by coincidence, was the year where the team had key injuries.

I guarantee that if you told any fan of any team in the league that they'd have 4 top 4 finishes, and just 1 mediocre year, the next 5 years (through 2017), they'd be ecstatic.
Regular seasons Champs (whoooppeeee!!!!)

Post season Chumps (arghhhh)

I used their post season finished to highlight my reasoning. 2nd round loss means finished 5th-8th in NHL. 1st round loss means finished 9th-16th in NHL. 9th-16th is mediocre.

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07-17-2012, 05:07 PM
  #881
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Which will happen first. Semin signs or the Joe Paterno statue is removed?

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07-17-2012, 05:08 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Come on....you cant say that w a straight face, can you?

Pitt and Chicago won the Cup, Vancouver and New Jersey played for the Cup in the finals. You really want to go there? I'd trade past playoff performance with ANY of those 4, even Vancouver.

I will grant you San Jose, but even they made it to the WCF, I believe (EDIT-- yes, lost in WCF on 2010 and 2011).....so I would not consider that worse than the Caps by any means)
I honestly would only trade with Chicago, maybe. I know they won the cup, but they've lost in the 1st round 2 years in a row.

Pittsburgh has been **** since their Cup. Yeah they made it to the 2nd round in 2010, but they lost to the same team as we did in the 1st round. Then they lost at home in game 7 to Tampa, getting shutout, and got absolutely embarrassed by a Philly team that lost easily in the 2nd round. Yeah they won the Cup, but since then? Not much...

The same goes with the rest of the teams. They have 1 or 2 years where they make it far, and the others they don't get past the 1st round or even into the post season (NJ).

I mean, I don't want to say its luck, but sometimes you have to get lucky to go on a long run.

Pitt - Varly plays like **** in game 7, Fleury makes a big save on OV on the opening minute breakaway, refs are "on their team"

Chicago - game 5 win against Nashville in opening round (series tied 2-2), if you don't know, look it up.

Boston - 3 game 7 wins. Almost impossible to do. And their PP is beyond **** but they somehow win.

LA- nothing. Dominated...

And for the other teams you mentioned...

NJ - win in double OT against a somewhat mediocre Florida team in the 1st round then roll to the Finals.

Vancouver - blow a 3-0 series lead in the 1st round, give up a game tying shorty in game 7 with 2 mins left, then win.

SJ- like the Caps. Never seem to be able to break through.


Almost all of those things above never happen to the Caps. They are always the team on the other end. Many of you can attest to that.

2008 - game 7, awful non call on the 2nd Flyers goal, absolutely brutal.

2009 - The Caps may not have deserved to beat the Pens, but the refs were beyond horrible. And although they may not have deserved to win, same thing could've been said about NJ last year, Vancouver 2 years ago (both in the 1st round). Sometimes a team gets lucky in a series then rolls through others'.

2010 - Halak plays unbelievable although the Caps thoroughly dominated the Habs. Halak then leads them through the Pens, but then comes back down to Earth against Philly.

2011- not much here tbh, although I did think the Caps deserved to be up 2-0, but somehow lost both games. Weren't there alot of TB goals off of Caps players though? And Green, Wideman, and Carlson were hurt if I'm correct (3 best Dman)

2012 - Rangers game 5. Through Holtby's arms, through Carlson's arms (literally 3 inches of room there), off the post, and in.

The Caps are, and have been a top team in this league, but in a 7 game series, sometimes you need luck to win, even if you are the better team. The Caps are rarely on the right side of things it seems.

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07-17-2012, 05:09 PM
  #883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Regular seasons Champs (whoooppeeee!!!!)

Post season Chumps (arghhhh)

I used their post season finished to highlight my reasoning. 2nd round loss means finished 5th-8th in NHL. 1st round loss means finished 9th-16th in NHL. 9th-16th is mediocre.
Oh I see now. Honestly didn't realize.

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07-17-2012, 05:11 PM
  #884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
how many have the flyers had over the years adjusted for inflation including the most recent bryzgalov? the rangers have had numerous beyond just gaborik and richards.
i'd add paul martin and michalek to that list.

the list is long.
Martin and Michalek are middling $5 million acquisitions. Gaborik sucks, you are correct.

Feel free to provide your list.

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07-17-2012, 05:12 PM
  #885
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You know what list is really short?

The list of Cup winners without an impact UFA signing.

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07-17-2012, 05:28 PM
  #886
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Anyone else here that would rather see the team play like they did from 08-10, then last year, even if playing better and exciting yielded the same results, while playing boring, with the young guns under producing, yielded a Cup?

I, for one would. I watch the Caps because it's fun, and exciting (used to be alot more of both), not to see them win a Cup. I mean obviously, I want them to win, and the goal is the Cup, but that's not why I watch the games. If I felt like that, I'd just watch the playoffs. It's fun watching teams make plays, create chances, use their speed, have odd man rushes, etc... The last 2 years have brought barely any of that. It's been trap, trap, trap. Dump. Change. Repeat.

That's why honestly, that Philly-Pitt series were probably my favorite games of the year. They gave me a taste of what Caps games used to be like. Every moment you felt there could be a goal. Every time Giroux, or Crosby, or Malkin had the puck you knew they'd create something (reminded me of 8, 19, and 28). Every time Letang rushed the puck up the ice I just thought to myself, wow I hate that **** sucker, but he just skates effortlessly by everybody else. And every time he took a shot from the point I knew there was a chance he'd score (reminded me of Greenie). Even Fleury kinda reminded me of Theodore, who was awful, but reminded me of how he used to hold the team back, and now it seems the team is holding itself back.

I know many of you will probably think I'm not a true fan since I'd rather the team be exciting, than boring and win the Cup, but I love the Caps, not the Stanley Cup. And I watch hockey not to see who is the champion in early June, but because it's the best game there is. And the last 2 years, the Caps just have not played the way that hockey is supposed to be played. I know it's more boring watching the last 2 years, and they definitely look less excited while playing too.

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07-17-2012, 06:15 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by SwedishMeatballs1990 View Post
Anyone else here that would rather see the team play like they did from 08-10, then last year, even if playing better and exciting yielded the same results, while playing boring, with the young guns under producing, yielded a Cup?

I, for one would. I watch the Caps because it's fun, and exciting (used to be alot more of both), not to see them win a Cup. I mean obviously, I want them to win, and the goal is the Cup, but that's not why I watch the games. If I felt like that, I'd just watch the playoffs. It's fun watching teams make plays, create chances, use their speed, have odd man rushes, etc... The last 2 years have brought barely any of that. It's been trap, trap, trap. Dump. Change. Repeat.

That's why honestly, that Philly-Pitt series were probably my favorite games of the year. They gave me a taste of what Caps games used to be like. Every moment you felt there could be a goal. Every time Giroux, or Crosby, or Malkin had the puck you knew they'd create something (reminded me of 8, 19, and 28). Every time Letang rushed the puck up the ice I just thought to myself, wow I hate that **** sucker, but he just skates effortlessly by everybody else. And every time he took a shot from the point I knew there was a chance he'd score (reminded me of Greenie). Even Fleury kinda reminded me of Theodore, who was awful, but reminded me of how he used to hold the team back, and now it seems the team is holding itself back.

I know many of you will probably think I'm not a true fan since I'd rather the team be exciting, than boring and win the Cup, but I love the Caps, not the Stanley Cup. And I watch hockey not to see who is the champion in early June, but because it's the best game there is. And the last 2 years, the Caps just have not played the way that hockey is supposed to be played. I know it's more boring watching the last 2 years, and they definitely look less excited while playing too.
Well, yeah, if Caps openly said, screw everybody, we're gonna stick to our (young) guns and try to win with all-out offense, I would've welcomed it and accepted early exits or whatever. 3 scoring lines and damn the torpedoes.

But at this point, it seems academic. In fairness to the Caps, the pressure to win is enormous, and trying to do it your own way while people are starting to laugh at your misfortunes is extremely hard. You only get a few years, it seems, to run those experiments, and then people demand change, balance, results, and you can't sustain it. Happened to Suns, happened to Caps, realistically, it was probably a pretty good try at it.

At this point the Caps are clearly on rails to try to win in a "traditional" way. And since the overall "beautiful game" is gone, all that matters is playoff results, IMO.

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07-17-2012, 06:19 PM
  #888
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Poor Semin, has to now wait for Doan to sign.

I feel badly for Datsyuk.
As do I. That guy can't catch a break.

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07-17-2012, 06:31 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
Well, yeah, if Caps openly said, screw everybody, we're gonna stick to our (young) guns and try to win with all-out offense, I would've welcomed it and accepted early exits or whatever. 3 scoring lines and damn the torpedoes.

But at this point, it seems academic. In fairness to the Caps, the pressure to win is enormous, and trying to do it your own way while people are starting to laugh at your misfortunes is extremely hard. You only get a few years, it seems, to run those experiments, and then people demand change, balance, results, and you can't sustain it. Happened to Suns, happened to Caps, realistically, it was probably a pretty good try at it.

At this point the Caps are clearly on rails to try to win in a "traditional" way. And since the overall "beautiful game" is gone, all that matters is playoff results, IMO.
Yeah, obviously I want them to play more balanced, but last year it was like they were trying to win 1-0 each game. They should play to win 5-0 or whatever. Try to score as many as they can, but not to the point where it affects their defensive play.

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07-17-2012, 06:32 PM
  #890
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I'm not, I just missed the Tampa year (which doesnt do all that much to change the grand argument)

2008, lost in 1st round
2009, lost in 2nd round
2010, lost in 1st round
2011, lost in 2nd round
2012, lost in 2nd round

08, 09, 10 we had uber Ovy, uber Backstrom, and uber Green. 11 and 12, they were neutered.

So in 13, we go to battle with 2 years of neutered 8/19/52, *and* minus 28. I dont see that as real improvement, from where I stand.
I actually was looking at that roster from a few years back.

Ovi-Backs-Knuble
Laich-Morrison-Semin
Flash-Belanger-Chimera
Gordon-Steckle-Braley

Sarge-Green
Poti-Carlson
TFSloan-Corvo

Varly
Theodore

Thats my guess of what the lines were based on the box score from the middle of the Montreal series. The part that strikes me was the fact that they had 3 face off aces in Gordon, Steckle, and Belanger.

Defense is definetely upgraded since that series. Going back and forth on the talent level offensively. Obviously the 2010 team was more productive in scoring.

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07-17-2012, 06:44 PM
  #891
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was there a $7m plus free agent signing on the los angeles kings? i forget

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07-17-2012, 06:45 PM
  #892
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was there a $7m plus free agent signing on the los angeles kings? i forget
Half of their top-4 on defense were UFA additions.

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07-17-2012, 07:22 PM
  #893
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Half of their top-4 on defense were UFA additions.
They were added years before and Mitchell was pursued by the Capitals even coming off a concussion.

Everyone here seems to be: Must sign old guys, but also must sign young guys in case old guys can't play playoffs in which we are suggesting they will make the difference for this team!

Either way the Caps signed Hamrlik. Who was despite peoples hatred of him, ironed out the defense and played great and nearly had the highest +/- on the team despite the sloppy start. If you were expecting 20+ point production from him, then you were naive with the way this teams PP works.

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07-17-2012, 07:36 PM
  #894
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Half of their top-4 on defense were UFA additions.
In the same way that Roman Hamrlik and Tom Poti were free agent additions. Not exactly on par with the Hossa deal.

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07-17-2012, 07:52 PM
  #895
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I honestly would only trade with Chicago, maybe. I know they won the cup, but they've lost in the 1st round 2 years in a row.

Pittsburgh has been **** since their Cup. Yeah they made it to the 2nd round in 2010, but they lost to the same team as we did in the 1st round. Then they lost at home in game 7 to Tampa, getting shutout, and got absolutely embarrassed by a Philly team that lost easily in the 2nd round. Yeah they won the Cup, but since then? Not much...

The same goes with the rest of the teams. They have 1 or 2 years where they make it far, and the others they don't get past the 1st round or even into the post season (NJ).

I mean, I don't want to say its luck, but sometimes you have to get lucky to go on a long run.

Pitt - Varly plays like **** in game 7, Fleury makes a big save on OV on the opening minute breakaway, refs are "on their team"

Chicago - game 5 win against Nashville in opening round (series tied 2-2), if you don't know, look it up.

Boston - 3 game 7 wins. Almost impossible to do. And their PP is beyond **** but they somehow win.

LA- nothing. Dominated...

And for the other teams you mentioned...

NJ - win in double OT against a somewhat mediocre Florida team in the 1st round then roll to the Finals.

Vancouver - blow a 3-0 series lead in the 1st round, give up a game tying shorty in game 7 with 2 mins left, then win.

SJ- like the Caps. Never seem to be able to break through.


Almost all of those things above never happen to the Caps. They are always the team on the other end. Many of you can attest to that.

2008 - game 7, awful non call on the 2nd Flyers goal, absolutely brutal.

2009 - The Caps may not have deserved to beat the Pens, but the refs were beyond horrible. And although they may not have deserved to win, same thing could've been said about NJ last year, Vancouver 2 years ago (both in the 1st round). Sometimes a team gets lucky in a series then rolls through others'.

2010 - Halak plays unbelievable although the Caps thoroughly dominated the Habs. Halak then leads them through the Pens, but then comes back down to Earth against Philly.

2011- not much here tbh, although I did think the Caps deserved to be up 2-0, but somehow lost both games. Weren't there alot of TB goals off of Caps players though? And Green, Wideman, and Carlson were hurt if I'm correct (3 best Dman)

2012 - Rangers game 5. Through Holtby's arms, through Carlson's arms (literally 3 inches of room there), off the post, and in.

The Caps are, and have been a top team in this league, but in a 7 game series, sometimes you need luck to win, even if you are the better team. The Caps are rarely on the right side of things it seems.
Very depressing. We have had absolutely no luck. I still believe the year we had the best chance was against the Habs and Halak was godly and there was also the no goal call in game 7 which was terrible.

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07-17-2012, 07:53 PM
  #896
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Half of their top-4 on defense were UFA additions.
$7m plus? scuderi and mitchell or more middling ufas than martin and michalek. mitchell had the injury history that some here hate and scuderi at 3.5m would have been called hideously overpayed.

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07-17-2012, 07:54 PM
  #897
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$7m plus?
Nope. So what?

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07-17-2012, 07:57 PM
  #898
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The Kings made Caps-esque UFA additions. They also took advantage of guys with diminished value due to character or work ethic issues via trade (granted, those were still big trades for the most part). You make it work however you can.

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07-17-2012, 08:17 PM
  #899
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The Kings turned over their team more than any squad in the league last year. FA or not is semantics. McPher is low risk low reward embodied and habitually too late to pull the trigger.

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07-17-2012, 08:25 PM
  #900
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was there a $7m plus free agent signing on the los angeles kings? i forget
You think McPhee has the balls to make a deal like the Richards trade?

Still waiting for your long list of high end UFA failures!

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