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On the Red Wings losing Holmstrom

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Old
07-13-2012, 11:16 PM
  #51
WingedWheel1987
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Only a complete drug addict would think homer belongs in the HHOF.

Great player but not close to elite.

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07-14-2012, 04:06 AM
  #52
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When I played hockey ('01-'05), I wore 96 because I aspired to be every bit as hard-working, resilient and stubborn as he was in the way he played. It will be hard to see him go.

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07-14-2012, 05:15 AM
  #53
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Just noticed Homer's INSANE career shooting percentages in both regular season and playoffs: 16.3% and 15.5% respectively.

Higher than guys like Jagr, Ovechkin, Yzerman, Brett Hull and Sakic. Just a few there.

He picked his spots well!

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07-14-2012, 12:02 PM
  #54
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I had te chance to speak with him and his family as he was checking in yesterday. He's a great guy, his family is wonderful as well. I wish him all the best!!!

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07-17-2012, 03:47 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Thanks for the memories, Tomas. You were a terrific net presence with excellent hands and smarts to boot. You will always be remembered.

Hell, I'd even consider retiring his number. Can't imagine anybody else wear 96... and bring us 4 Cups on top of that.

The question is: is he a HHOF candidate? 4 Cups, Olympic Gold, 1000 games played, and one of the most recognized players of the past 15 years.
No.

Dick Duff was inducted in 2006. Duff won six Cups - two on the 60s Leafs and four on the 60s Canadiens. Duff has comparable career statistics; he played four more games, scored 40 more goals, and scored two more assists. Despite the fact that he was actually inducted, most experts agree that he's easily the worst HHOF selection and does not belong. If there is a more comparable player to Holmstrom, statistically, I don't know who he is. Duff played in the same kinds of situations (playing on lower lines much of his career for elite teams) but he himself was not a terribly remarkable player; he happened to have the good fortune of playing with many excellent players and managed to justify his own presence on the team in that he was not removed. Imagine Holmstrom beginning his career with Detroit in 1974, and playing until 1990 as a Wing. Would he have almost 250 goals and over 500 points? Maybe, but only as a result of the era. He'd probably have closer to 100-150 goals in 16 years and 300 points even through the 70s-80s. Maybe less. Holmstrom benefited a great deal from the slow clutch-and-grab game; had the run-and-gun 80s-style play still been in use, Holmstrom never makes the power play and has to make his way as a checker or not at all.

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Originally Posted by essbee View Post
I don't think Osgood should be in HHOF but I think I explained well enough why Holmstrom should be in.
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Not even. I don't think McCarty, Maltby, or even Kozlov and Ozzy deserve to be in the HHOF, but Holmstrom has quite a resume. He wasn't any worse than Dino.
Holmstrom was very good at what he did. But anyone who suggests Holmstrom should even be LOOKED at because of his net-front ability can never complain about Ciccarelli. Ciccarelli was given the same consideration in net-front ability by most that many give Holmstrom now. And Ciccarelli has more than twice as many goals, and was far more versatile. Ryan Smyth is another player who is instantly inducted. Keith Tkachuk and John Leclair also deserve mention, but Tkachuk and possibly Leclair as well will get in anyway.

As for "not worse than Dino", that's like saying Darryl Laplante wasn't any worse than Pavel Bure. Laplante was the faster top-end skater, but Bure was shiftier. Stacy Roest, for that matter, was right in that range for speed and shiftiness, and was a much better player than Laplante. Russ and Geoff Courtnall, Cliff Ronning, those guys were just as fast as Bure. Alexander Mogilny and Sergei Fedorov were both faster. And of course there's Mike Gartner. How do you rank those players in speed and how do you rank them in skill? One ability doesn't get you in the HHOF, unless it's scoring goals, playmaking, or goaltending.

With regards to Osgood... Ozzie is one of the best goalies of his era, and of all-time. There are very few goalies who can compare to his regular season numbers, few who can compare to his playoff numbers, and the number who can compare to BOTH is even smaller. People love to point out the fact that the Wings won with other goaltenders. In 2002 the Wings won with Hasek, who was a year removed from the Vezina trophy. They also had the top two defensemen in the league. In 1997, the Wings had Lidstrom and Konstantinov, who were 6th and 2nd in Norris voting that year - and 6th/4th the previous year, with then-teammate Paul Coffey filling the #5 spot. Coffey's spot was filled in 97 by trade acquisition Larry Murphy, who didn't do well in Norris voting but was a huge success from moment one in Detroit. Part of Murphy's lack of Norris votes in 1997 were due to his playing most of the year in Toronto (he had similar seasons the next three years, but wasn't the whipping boy of a huge media market). Osgood didn't have Konstantinov in 1998, just Lidstrom (2nd) and Murphy (6th).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bench View Post
Just noticed Homer's INSANE career shooting percentages in both regular season and playoffs: 16.3% and 15.5% respectively.

Higher than guys like Jagr, Ovechkin, Yzerman, Brett Hull and Sakic. Just a few there.

He picked his spots well!
Shooting percentage doesn't always reflect skill. The fact that a lot of goals were passes or shots that simply bounced off Homer are evidence of this.

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Old
07-17-2012, 05:35 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Shooting percentage doesn't always reflect skill. The fact that a lot of goals were passes or shots that simply bounced off Homer are evidence of this.
I might buy that if he didn't have over a 1000 games of data to suggest that when he touches the puck near the net, it went in a lot.

Obviously those players I listed are superior in every way, that's why it's impressive that Holmstrom's shooting percentage is so high.

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07-17-2012, 06:03 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bench View Post
I might buy that if he didn't have over a 1000 games of data to suggest that when he touches the puck near the net, it went in a lot.

Obviously those players I listed are superior in every way, that's why it's impressive that Holmstrom's shooting percentage is so high.
Homer definitely had a refined skill in redirecting shots and passes on goal. However, they are also often flukey in nature (I'd say mostly flukey, actually), and since so many of Homer's goals were on deflections, I think that inflates his shooting %. I appreciate the guy's willingness to get into position to tip in shots, but don't equate that with being a sniper. That's why once every 50 games or so, when Homer would beat a goalie on a wrister or slap shot from the offensive faceoff circle or farther out, Ken and Mickey would pretty much pass out in the booth with their reactions, b/c Homer so rarely took those shots, and far more rarely beat the goalie with them.

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