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07-17-2012, 09:20 PM
  #1
Pantokrator
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Improved teams

It seems to me that when I look around the league, none of the strong team really improved much. In fact, it seems that many took a step back. Detroit lost Lidstrom, Pitt lost Staal, we lost Jagr and Carle, Boston lost Thomas, et al.

Dallas and Minnesota have improved greatly, but these teams were on the outside last year. In the old days, it seemed like every year the good teams/rich teams improved the most. I am a pessimist, but it seems that the Flyers' losses might not hurt them too much because of the losses of the other teams.

I was wondering what the consensus was as to which teams improved the most and how that will effect the Flyers ability to make the playoffs.

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07-17-2012, 09:32 PM
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bauer
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i think the Caps and Canes improved quite a bit. the Flyers definitely got worse. i don't think it's a stretch to say they might be fighting for a playoff spot next spring. the offense and defense took a bit of a hit, and if Bryz doesn't get his head out of his ass this season, it could be a long year.

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07-17-2012, 09:38 PM
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King Forsberg
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I wouldn't say we improved but we have a lot of capspace still. We can still sign some remaing players once Their value drops. Plus come deadline time we can pretty much afford to get multiple players no matter how big their contracts are.

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07-17-2012, 09:45 PM
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It's been an interesting offseason. A lot of talent has shifted from powerhouse teams to weaker franchises.

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07-17-2012, 09:48 PM
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The talent pool this offseason was pretty thin; the dropoff was pretty steep after names like Parise, Suter and the trade market for players like Nash and Ryan is sky high.

I agree that, while the Flyers did not get significantly better, neither has our competition.

Of course, Penguins fans would argue that having Crosby back for an entire season will have a huge impact. Rangers fans will argue that they will have Krieder and Staal for an entire season. We will argue that having B. Schenn and Meszaros the full year will be a huge boost.

Pending where Doan and Semin end up, I still think the race for first in the division is close and the 3 of us finish (1), (4), (5) in any particular order.


Last edited by Flyerfan808: 07-17-2012 at 09:49 PM. Reason: derpityderp
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07-17-2012, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
The talent pool this offseason was pretty thin; the dropoff was pretty steep after names like Parise, Suter and the trade market for players like Nash and Ryan is sky high.

I agree that, while the Flyers did not get significantly better, neither has our competition.

Of course, Penguins fans would argue that having Crosby back for an entire season will have a huge impact. Rangers fans will argue that they will have Krieder and Staal for an entire season. We will argue that having B. Schenn and Meszaros the full year will be a huge boost.

Pending where Doan and Semin end up, I still think the race for first in the division is close and the 3 of us finish (1), (4), (5) in any particular order.
Don't forget that also having L. Schenn here the whole season should be a good boost as well. If we can get Semin and re-sign Voracek, I think we might technically be the more improved team on the division. The idea of a true sniper with Giroux is crazy.

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07-17-2012, 10:07 PM
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King Forsberg
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I'm really hoping Homer is waiting til Semins valid drops then signs him for relatively cheap.

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07-17-2012, 10:19 PM
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TheLegendkiller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bauer View Post
i think the Caps and Canes improved quite a bit. the Flyers definitely got worse. i don't think it's a stretch to say they might be fighting for a playoff spot next spring. the offense and defense took a bit of a hit, and if Bryz doesn't get his head out of his ass this season, it could be a long year.

Caps did not improve. Semin for Riberio? That's nothing.

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07-17-2012, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
Caps did not improve. Semin for Riberio? That's nothing.
i think Riberio will end up with more points this year than what Semin had for them last year.

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07-18-2012, 02:45 AM
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It all depends where Semin and Doan end up. Right now it's a wash.

Unfortunately, we will probably not land any of the two. Maybe Homer can at least hurt some other teams by joining the bidding war...


Last edited by dats81: 07-18-2012 at 06:52 AM.
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07-18-2012, 03:32 AM
  #11
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Semins value is not going to drop to the point where the flyers consider him. He will be long gone to the KHL before that happens

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07-18-2012, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
It seems to me that when I look around the league, none of the strong team really improved much. In fact, it seems that many took a step back. Detroit lost Lidstrom, Pitt lost Staal, we lost Jagr and Carle, Boston lost Thomas, et al.

Dallas and Minnesota have improved greatly, but these teams were on the outside last year. In the old days, it seemed like every year the good teams/rich teams improved the most. I am a pessimist, but it seems that the Flyers' losses might not hurt them too much because of the losses of the other teams.

I was wondering what the consensus was as to which teams improved the most and how that will effect the Flyers ability to make the playoffs.
I think a lot of that can be attributed to tentativeness caused by uncertainty over the new CBA.

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07-18-2012, 09:12 AM
  #13
turkinaa
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While I do not want to say or want to feel that the Flyers go worse, you also have to keep in mind that while some teams lost talent many stayed the same level or got better. With that being said part of it will always depend on how you personally feel the Flyers did last season.

If they played at a normal level or below their level of talent, they'll be fine next year even with our losses and how other teams unfolded this offseason.

If they played above their level of talent, they're going to be in for some "learning experiences" and things could break not in our favor and we will be on par or below other teams regardless of how much those other teams lost in talent.

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07-18-2012, 09:48 AM
  #14
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Personally I think we are fine. I wouldn't say we improved by adding anyone but the growth of the young players could be significant. The same goes for the Rangers.

The Devils lost their heart and soul and Marty is another year older.

The Penguins have had a terrible offseason if you ask me. I think Sutter is a solid player but he is a big downgrade from Staal. I would have loved the Staal trade for them if they drafted Forsberg or Teravanien. They also gave away Michalek for peanuts and are depending on a rookie to replace him. Their defense as it stands is:

Letang-Orpik
Martin-Niskanen
Despres-Engelland

Orpik has been on the decline for the past 2 years and other than Martin, who was absolutely terrible last year but has the ability to bounce back, they don't have anyone who you can say is a top 4 dman going into the season. Niskanen and Despres have promise though.

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07-18-2012, 09:51 AM
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Mkoll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkinaa View Post
While I do not want to say or want to feel that the Flyers go worse, you also have to keep in mind that while some teams lost talent many stayed the same level or got better. With that being said part of it will always depend on how you personally feel the Flyers did last season.

If they played at a normal level or below their level of talent, they'll be fine next year even with our losses and how other teams unfolded this offseason.

If they played above their level of talent, they're going to be in for some "learning experiences" and things could break not in our favor and we will be on par or below other teams regardless of how much those other teams lost in talent.
I have trouble looking at it this way. A player can play above(Hartnell?), or below their level (Bryz), However, as much as they may work together as a team. Playing at, above, or below talent levels is not something they do in tandem. So, I am not sure this is something that can be measured accurately.

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07-18-2012, 11:35 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Semins value is not going to drop to the point where the flyers consider him. He will be long gone to the KHL before that happens
Semin and Gandler have already stated that the KHL isn't an option for them. The plane crash last year all but sealed the deal that he won't go back to the KHL. He even turned down a 3 year, $30 million deal from one of the teams in the K already.

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07-18-2012, 11:46 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
It seems to me that when I look around the league, none of the strong team really improved much. In fact, it seems that many took a step back. Detroit lost Lidstrom, Pitt lost Staal, we lost Jagr and Carle, Boston lost Thomas, et al.

Dallas and Minnesota have improved greatly, but these teams were on the outside last year. In the old days, it seemed like every year the good teams/rich teams improved the most. I am a pessimist, but it seems that the Flyers' losses might not hurt them too much because of the losses of the other teams.

I was wondering what the consensus was as to which teams improved the most and how that will effect the Flyers ability to make the playoffs.
I don't think the Flyers got worse. The Flyers had spots to fill and players internally are going to be given a chance to fill those slots. For instance, with Jagr leaving, that gives Voracek a chance to play on the top line. When you consider that Voracek scored 48 points last year playing between the second and third line, I think there's a good chance that Voracek can add an additional 10 to 15 points to his point totals playing with Giroux and Hartnell. As for the second line, Briere will move to the left wing, Schenn will stay at center and Simmonds goes to the right side. Let's also not forget that Simmonds scored 28 goals while playing less than 17 minutes a night. With Simmonds probably getting 18 to 19 minutes a night of ice time, there's no reason to believe that he can't add to his totals and that 30 to 35 goals aren't out of the equation.

The third line will probably be Talbot / Couturier / Read. Couturier showed great chemistry with both guys at different times last year and I think this can be a line that will also produce offensively. I see Couturier's numbers going up and I see Read's numbers also improving. As for Talbot, he was a great scorer in junior and while he was never given a scoring role in the NHL, he also showed last season he can put the puck in the net.

In terms of the fourth line. It will be what it will be. Fedotenko / Holmstrom / Wellwood should give teams fits. There's a lot of grit on that line, there's a lot of defensive awareness and with Wellwood, there's more than enough speed to make up for what Fedotenko may have lost.

As for the defense, losing Carle's minutes hurts. No doubt about that. But with a healthy Meszaros and a rejuvenated (and lighter) Schenn, there's no reason to believe that this group can't be relied upon. On top of it, if the Grossmann / Coburn pairing can remain effective, that really lightens the load for Timonen (which is something the Flyers desperately need).

I mentioned previously that the Flyers off season was addition by subtraction. They could afford to let certain guys walk because they had the players internally to fill the spots. I don't see a set back by the club at all. This was a club that was expected by many to barely qualify for a playoff spot last year. This club will remain competitive and I think they might be a little tighter defensively this year. That will certainly go a long way.

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07-18-2012, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Semin and Gandler have already stated that the KHL isn't an option for them. The plane crash last year all but sealed the deal that he won't go back to the KHL. He even turned down a 3 year, $30 million deal from one of the teams in the K already.
You have a source for that?

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07-18-2012, 12:27 PM
  #19
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I think the 3 yr 30mil deal was proven false.

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07-18-2012, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
You have a source for that?
Yeah, I read it on cbssports.com. However, I've also read a few other articles indicating that the contract offer was only for two years. Either way, the contract that was offered by the KHL team (CSKA Moscow) was rejected. Semin and Gandler are clear though that the KHL is not an option. It's NHL or nothing.

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07-18-2012, 03:19 PM
  #21
turkinaa
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Originally Posted by Mkoll View Post
I have trouble looking at it this way. A player can play above(Hartnell?), or below their level (Bryz), However, as much as they may work together as a team. Playing at, above, or below talent levels is not something they do in tandem. So, I am not sure this is something that can be measured accurately.
I understand what you're saying, but the way I see it is that we can say that some players had career years while others were disappointing or just starting their NHL careers.

Hartnell could produce the same as he did last season, but he might not. It is possible that he played above his skill level. Bryz played inconsistently last season, but his overall numbers were ok. Not elite #1 goalie, but on par with some of his previous numbers and about what to expect out of him. He will probably play the same or better as long as the D does not implode on itself. Players like Simmonds and Talbot had amazing years, but might not get close to what they got (playing above their skill level). Danny B might do better, especially if he plays on a line with G (which I expect to happen) and as such he probably played below the level he is custom to during the season. How is Read going to do in year 2? Unknown, but if he gets 3rd line duty and more PK time his numbers will be less. Those are just a few examples as well as my own feelings.

As such the team itself will either balance itself out and will be the same as last season, or worse if any of the above players perform below their expected level of production or skill as a team (sometimes poor playing is contagious due to habits or if the players we expect to perform/break out do not en masse) or as individuals.

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07-18-2012, 04:37 PM
  #22
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...As such the team itself will either balance itself out and will be the same as last season, or worse if any of the above players perform below their expected level of production or skill as a team (sometimes poor playing is contagious due to habits or if the players we expect to perform/break out do not en masse) or as individuals.
Well that is true, balance is a powerful force of nature in many aspects. I can see this being true, good point.

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07-18-2012, 10:52 PM
  #23
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As much as the thought of getting Semin at a relatively cheap rate is intriguing, with all the smoke around Semin being selfish/a floater/a malcontent has me dreading the idea of an unhappy Semin forced to settle for a cheap deal in our dressing room. His talent in unquestionable, but the fit might be an issue.

One thing that is sort of interesting, though not necessarily on-topic, is the possibility that the Flyers could manage to re-sign Voracek/Bourdon/Sestito/Harry Z and stay below the cap without using the LTIR on Pronger. That would let them bank some cap space for a possible deadline deal. It's nice to have some wiggle-room for a change.

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07-20-2012, 01:29 AM
  #24
zarley zelepukin
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Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
Orpik has been on the decline for the past 2 years and other than Martin, who was absolutely terrible last year but has the ability to bounce back, they don't have anyone who you can say is a top 4 dman going into the season. Niskanen and Despres have promise though.
Letang? Their 4-6 does look thin though.

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07-20-2012, 02:50 AM
  #25
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rather we get weber than semin ;p

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