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2012 NBA Off-Season Thread: There's a new team in town

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Old
07-17-2012, 08:07 PM
  #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
It's not worth the risk.

NBA teams hate doing the Knicks favors. That's why the Knicks have to overpay with draft picks in every trade they make.

If Lin is an average PG after two seasons, teams would ask the Knicks to surrender even more 1st round picks just to take him off their hands.

If they waive him, he wont get claimed if he sucks and is no longer a media darling.

The Knicks have a short window to build around Melo, Stat and Chandler. Three years and then they are all free agents. The only way they can try to come close to competing for a championship is to surround those three with quality, inexpensive role players and veterans.

If they signed Lin, they wouldnt be able to do that.

People complain about the Knicks' age, but it's the only way they can build a team with those three huge contracts. Adding a 4th contract would have been suicide.

The Knicks have their 1st round picks in 2013, 2015 and 2016. Just pray to God they find a way to hold onto them.
PLEASE. This is tortured justification. Even if he regresses (although I doubt that'll happen), he'll still be the "good backup" that Brown claims. $5MM per year for that player (and again, this is in comparison to having NOTHING in his place, not some other player) is a bargain. Then, for ONE year, they have a potential downside of playing increased taxes. And this is a problem for the team that $190MM in payroll and taxes in 2006? REALLY?

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Old
07-17-2012, 08:15 PM
  #327
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I don't see how money is the issue here. I don't think it is. Dolan pissed away millions on a lot worse players than Jeremy Lin. I think the issue has to do with how Jeremy Lin fits in with the team, and how he takes shots away from Melo. Look at Melo's PPG and Field Goal Attempts before Lin blew up, while he played with Lin, and then after Lin got injured.

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Old
07-17-2012, 08:42 PM
  #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
It's not worth the risk.

NBA teams hate doing the Knicks favors. That's why the Knicks have to overpay with draft picks in every trade they make.

If Lin is an average PG after two seasons, teams would ask the Knicks to surrender even more 1st round picks just to take him off their hands.

If they waive him, he wont get claimed if he sucks and is no longer a media darling.

The Knicks have a short window to build around Melo, Stat and Chandler. Three years and then they are all free agents. The only way they can try to come close to competing for a championship is to surround those three with quality, inexpensive role players and veterans.

If they signed Lin, they wouldnt be able to do that.

People complain about the Knicks' age, but it's the only way they can build a team with those three huge contracts. Adding a 4th contract would have been suicide.

The Knicks have their 1st round picks in 2013, 2015 and 2016. Just pray to God they find a way to hold onto them.
We need a starting PG though, too. Felton is average at best and Kidd, honestly, should be playing the 2.

Right now it's

Felton-Kidd-Prigoni
Shump-Smith
Melo-Novak
Stat-Thomas
Tyson-Camby

that's not a bad lineup at all. Tyson is elite, Shump is already a top tier perimeter defender, even if he doesn't progress because of the knee injury right away (although hopefully he doesn't regress). The questions are if Carmelo can consistently carry the offense and if STAT can come back healthy. That PG depth makes me wince. Those are big if's that we still don't know.

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Old
07-17-2012, 09:32 PM
  #329
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Al Iannazzone ‏@Al_Iannazzone
The Knicks just confirmed they are not matching Houston's offer sheet to Jeremy Lin.

there we go...**** you Dolan

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Old
07-17-2012, 09:37 PM
  #330
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Bad day in sports.

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Old
07-17-2012, 09:51 PM
  #331
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Dolan is one of the worst owners in sports. Probably the worst.

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Old
07-17-2012, 10:38 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Wrong. I am not as big as basketball as hockey guy but I watched the Knicks with Bernard King,Bill Cartwright and Rory Sparrow. I follow the NBA. I know who is who. Don't give me that BS.

Hahn was on Smith's radio on Sunday afternoon discussing Lin. Hahn said he has spoken with many NBA people about Lin. He was surprised about the feedback he got. Back up NBA PG. All of those NBA coaches/execs all have an ax to grind too? Isola hates Dolan. Why is he basically agreeing with the decision to let Lin go? I know he hates Lin more?
I'm not saying Lin is worth the third year of that contract, or that he'll be a great player, but I wouldn't put much stock into anything Stephen A. Smith says. IMO, he's one of the least respectable people in basketball journalism/broadcasting. This is the guy who proclaimed that the Nuggets, when they acquired Allen Iverson in 2006, were title contenders. Smith is the biggest cheerleader for guys like Iverson, Marbury, Anthony, etc. All the guys that are me first players, who put themselves ahead of the team, and who never won anything.

Like BRF said earlier, he certainly has contacts around the league, but he's nothing more than a loudmouth who is all flash, no substance. He lacks objectivity. I also happen to agree with the notion that he tends to allow race to influence his opinions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
I guess you missed this post, which was up about an hour and a half later, where I clearly said that it was something I'd heard on NBATV, from the mouths of players. I'm not sure how you missed it, since this isn't the first time you've thrown that comment at me (while avoiding addressing any actual points I made, much like you do with the "your not even a Knick fan" as if that somehow affects my ability to form an opinion) and it isn't the first time I've made the point that it was something I heard on NBATV. No need to rehash that discussion, but if you want to say that me believing that Karl is a good defensive coach (or that he, at least, has coached teams that were strong defensively...which is the case for all but one season of his Sonics tenure) takes away credibility from my opinion, that's fine.

I just don't believe it is any more ridiculous than loads of stuff you've said about D'Antoni, his tenure with the Knicks, or Anthony. Forming a negative opinion about D'Antoni's time with the Knicks when taking into consideration all of the circumstances that surrounded that period seems, to me, entirely unreasonable.

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Old
07-17-2012, 10:44 PM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Jeremy Lin is a product of Speedball. Put the ball in the hands of the PG. Speedball has been replaced by real basketball. Rebound and defend. The Knicks don't feel Lin is that good of a player worthy of paying $30M in luxury taxes in 14-15. Some people feel Lin is a back-up PG. Alan Hahn,Frank Isola and Stephen A.Smith have all echoed that sentiment.
SAS is a racist and usually has an agenda. I would take what he says with a grain of salt.

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Old
07-17-2012, 11:07 PM
  #334
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So no more Linsanity? Damn I was almost excited there for a second

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Old
07-17-2012, 11:31 PM
  #335
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I can't stand this franchise. The same team that gave Eddy Curry the bank, and watched him win with the heat? Ugh!!

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Old
07-18-2012, 12:32 AM
  #336
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I can throw that jersey out. That was a stupid purchase. Another to the list.

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Old
07-18-2012, 03:01 AM
  #337
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Looking at all the Knicks "fans" reaction on other websites is hilarious.

I'm angry we didn't sign Lin but holy ****, talk about a bunch of prima donnas.

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Old
07-18-2012, 03:16 AM
  #338
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Sucks Lin is gone. Also going to miss Fields

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Old
07-18-2012, 04:07 AM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I'm not saying Lin is worth the third year of that contract, or that he'll be a great player, but I wouldn't put much stock into anything Stephen A. Smith says. IMO, he's one of the least respectable people in basketball journalism/broadcasting. This is the guy who proclaimed that the Nuggets, when they acquired Allen Iverson in 2006, were title contenders. Smith is the biggest cheerleader for guys like Iverson, Marbury, Anthony, etc. All the guys that are me first players, who put themselves ahead of the team, and who never won anything.

Like BRF said earlier, he certainly has contacts around the league, but he's nothing more than a loudmouth who is all flash, no substance. He lacks objectivity. I also happen to agree with the notion that he tends to allow race to influence his opinions.



I guess you missed this post, which was up about an hour and a half later, where I clearly said that it was something I'd heard on NBATV, from the mouths of players. I'm not sure how you missed it, since this isn't the first time you've thrown that comment at me (while avoiding addressing any actual points I made, much like you do with the "your not even a Knick fan" as if that somehow affects my ability to form an opinion) and it isn't the first time I've made the point that it was something I heard on NBATV. No need to rehash that discussion, but if you want to say that me believing that Karl is a good defensive coach (or that he, at least, has coached teams that were strong defensively...which is the case for all but one season of his Sonics tenure) takes away credibility from my opinion, that's fine.

I just don't believe it is any more ridiculous than loads of stuff you've said about D'Antoni, his tenure with the Knicks, or Anthony. Forming a negative opinion about D'Antoni's time with the Knicks when taking into consideration all of the circumstances that surrounded that period seems, to me, entirely unreasonable.
I completely agree that Dantoni had a mess to deal with and inherited a crappy situation and Melo is a primadonna.

That doesn't mean he is above any criticism. Dantoni signed the contract and knew what he was getting into, and that the best Knicks teams throughout history won with defense.

And what have I said about Anthony that's ridiculous? I'm not defending him or making him out to be some savior.

I'm simply accepting the fact that as a Knicks fan, there is a chance that a full season with a coach who the players respect can lead to winning the division.

I've also accepted that Dolan isn't going anywhere, but gambling on Melo and Stat for just three more years won't kill the franchise the way Houston's contract, Marbury and Curry did.

Its amazing how I'm being vilified and called "ridiculous" for simply being happy my team played better for one coach than the previous one.

As for Karl, don't you think its odd that the only time Karl had a good defensive team was when he had arguably the best defensive point guard in modern NBA history in his prime?

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Old
07-18-2012, 04:12 AM
  #340
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Fields was a one year wonder. He's not worth 6.5 million a season. You can find players similar to what he did at the 2/3. He's a slasher, and with Melo on the court with Amare, it'd be hard to have that type of player with them. Someone needs to spread the floor. Fields can't shoot.


Lin is going to hurt though. He has serious potential. Steve Nash lite potential.

People ragged on Felton, but he played exceptional in New York before he was dealt in the Melo trade. Some people use him as an argument for Lin because Lin was good with D'Antoni's offense which is point guard friendly. Not everyone can do it though, so I think with the right players Felton can still be an effective piece for the Knicks. He also never wanted to leave New York. Hopefully, coming back will help his game. Camby and Chandler will be holding it down in the paint. Tyson won't wear down nearly as much this season having Camby able to spell him for minutes. Still need to find a viable 4 option not named Kurt Thomas behind Amare and a SG that can put the ball in the basket from deep. Love Thomas, but that train passed 5 years ago, maybe longer than that.

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Old
07-18-2012, 04:20 AM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
PLEASE. This is tortured justification. Even if he regresses (although I doubt that'll happen), he'll still be the "good backup" that Brown claims. $5MM per year for that player (and again, this is in comparison to having NOTHING in his place, not some other player) is a bargain. Then, for ONE year, they have a potential downside of playing increased taxes. And this is a problem for the team that $190MM in payroll and taxes in 2006? REALLY?
Completely disagree.

1) Lin is coming off a major injury. 2) its folly to pay 5 million a year to a guy who would play 15 mins a night and barely any in the 4th quarter.
3) Shumpert, injury aside, has higher upside than Lin. Lin's 3rd year would make it impossible to extend Shumpert.
4) From a business standpoint that 3rd year makes it cost prohibitive.

The 3rd year that Lin asked for sealed his fate. Signing the offer sheet made him legally untradeable.

The Knicks did everything right, for once. If Lin becomes the next Steve Nash, and he loves NYC as much as he says he does, they will have plenty of money to bring him back in 2016.

Sorry but Lin hired a new agent to get the most money regardless of location. For once I agree with Dolan.

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Old
07-18-2012, 06:09 AM
  #342
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The Knicks loved Jeremy Lin so much that their #1 priority was trying to acquire Steve Nash in a sign and trade with PHX. Soon to be 39 year old Steve Nash. The Knicks would have swapped Iman Shumpert in the deal. 3 years/$25M for Nash. Lin would have not been the starting PG IF they had acquired Nash and Lin had stayed.

So much noise about a back-up PG.

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Old
07-18-2012, 06:16 AM
  #343
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So glad he's gone. I'm not a basketball fan, and that Lin talk was nauseating while the Rangers were on their run.

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07-18-2012, 06:17 AM
  #344
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http://www.basketballprospectus.com/...articleid=1287

Felton was good here, but I don't think he was as good as a lot of us were making him out to be.

I like Ray, I really do. He loved playing here and was part of the first Knicks season I truly enjoyed and was seriously invested in in almost my whole life as a Knicks fan. I think it's ******** that he's going to get **** on (probably booed, too, by some of the idiots at MSG) because he's not Jeremy Lin.

That being said, I don't think he's that great and I think we would've won more games with Lin starting, and when we're literally giving away everything (besides Shump) to go for it now, that's really all I care about.

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07-18-2012, 08:01 AM
  #345
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Notice they got rid of Lin's friends too? Jeffries & Fields.

I don't wish bad on anyone but if something happened to Dolan I wouldn't shed one tear.

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Old
07-18-2012, 08:02 AM
  #346
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Notice they got rid of Lin's friends too? Jeffries & Fields.

I don't wish bad on anyone but if something happened to Dolan I wouldn't shed one tear.
They didn't get rid of Fields, Fields got a contract that there was no way he was going to perform to.

I do miss JJ though.

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07-18-2012, 08:06 AM
  #347
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No matter what side your on when it comes to not resigning Lin, one thing is clear....

Being a Knicks fan is brutal.

My punishment for being a Yankees and Giants fan is being a Rangers and Knicks fan, but at least the Rangers are starting to head in the right direction.

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Old
07-18-2012, 08:10 AM
  #348
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So glad he's gone. I'm not a basketball fan, and that Lin talk was nauseating while the Rangers were on their run.
Go back to twitter. The Rangers got plenty of coverage during their run.

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Old
07-18-2012, 08:15 AM
  #349
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The Knicks did nothing wrong with Fields and Lin. They are both complimentary role players at this stage of their careers, and two teams hedged their bets that they are on the verge of stardom (actual stardom, not media stardom) with gross overpayments.

Fields was a late pick. Lin was acquired for nothing. IMO, from a pure basketball standpoint, they wanted to keep Fields over Lin. But that's the NBA and a salary cap for you. It prevents mega market teams from hoarding assets while outbidding other teams for their assets.

In a way, I'm glad Dolan got to eat some humble pie.

Besides, fans of the NFL should be used to stuff like this. NFL teams get outbid or cut/release fan favorites and quality players left and right.

I remember when Steve Smith signed with the Eagles (who like Lin was a fan favorite, a very good player but coming off an injury) and the Giants were killed by the fans for letting it happen.

It took Victor Cruz about two weeks to make Giants fans ask "Steve Who?"

The only thing Dolan can pray for is the Knicks get off to a decent start and win around 47-50 games. If the Knicks suck to start the season, fire up tjhe "Fire Dolan" rally petitions

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07-18-2012, 08:21 AM
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
The Knicks did nothing wrong with Fields and Lin. They are both complimentary role players at this stage of their careers, and two teams hedged their bets that they are on the verge of stardom (actual stardom, not media stardom) with gross overpayments.

Fields was a late pick. Lin was acquired for nothing. IMO, from a pure basketball standpoint, they wanted to keep Fields over Lin. But that's the NBA and a salary cap for you. It prevents mega market teams from hoarding assets while outbidding other teams for their assets.

In a way, I'm glad Dolan got to eat some humble pie.

Besides, fans of the NFL should be used to stuff like this. NFL teams get outbid or cut/release fan favorites and quality players left and right.

I remember when Steve Smith signed with the Eagles (who like Lin was a fan favorite, a very good player but coming off an injury) and the Giants were killed by the fans for letting it happen.

It took Victor Cruz about two weeks to make Giants fans ask "Steve Who?"

The only thing Dolan can pray for is the Knicks get off to a decent start and win around 47-50 games. If the Knicks suck to start the season, fire up tjhe "Fire Dolan" rally petitions
Who is firing him?

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