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Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): 2012 Regular Season (Utter-Lee Hopeless Part 2)

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07-18-2012, 12:45 PM
  #251
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ZWR's Line Graph of Eternal Optimism:

http://www.zoowithroy.com/2012/07/zo...-graph-of.html


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07-18-2012, 01:24 PM
  #252
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I have hope for every team, every year. I yell at people for freaking out over the Flyers too lol. You can't find me saying "They have no chance."

I was just listening to Tim Kurkjian on SportsCenter, he said he's hearing that the Phillies plan is to see what happens in the next 10 days. If they're climbing the standings, they're probably going to make a run, but if they're still like 10 out they're probably going to sell. Apparently he heard management say they owe it to the fans and the core to give them the chance. I'm fine with this.

Any updates on Cole?

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07-18-2012, 01:27 PM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
I have hope for every team, every year. I yell at people for freaking out over the Flyers too lol. You can't find me saying "They have no chance."

I was just listening to Tim Kurkjian on SportsCenter, he said he's hearing that the Phillies plan is to see what happens in the next 10 days. If they're climbing the standings, they're probably going to make a run, but if they're still like 10 out they're probably going to sell. Apparently he heard management say they owe it to the fans and the core to give them the chance. I'm fine with this.

Any updates on Cole?
Ugh. The future of the Phillies is going to be killed by their own hubris.

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07-18-2012, 01:28 PM
  #254
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On the bright side, we don't have to see the Phils take a steaming Qualls on the mound ever again. Even if we miss the playoffs, I count that as a victory and will mark this season as a success.

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07-18-2012, 01:55 PM
  #255
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http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/0...els-120mm.html

Apparently they are going to offer Cole 6 years $130 million according Jon Heyman of cbssports


Last edited by chinatown81592: 07-18-2012 at 02:06 PM.
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Old
07-18-2012, 02:02 PM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinatown81592 View Post
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/0...els-120mm.html

Apparently they are going to offer Cole 6 years $130 million according Jon Heyman of csbsports
Anything under 150 isn't going to do it IMO.

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07-18-2012, 02:11 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Anything under 150 isn't going to do it IMO.
Yeah. What did Cain get? Like $130 for five years with an option for six to take it to $140? He's gonna want AT LEAST what Cain got, if not more. Seems to me like these offers are just kind of take it or you're getting traded kind of things, which I can't imagine will work. I'd love for him to re-sign (especially if they can trade him first), but I don't see it happening.

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07-18-2012, 02:12 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
On the bright side, we don't have to see the Phils take a steaming Qualls on the mound ever again. Even if we miss the playoffs, I count that as a victory and will mark this season as a success.
Qualls as this year's Baez. I hated him with every ounce of my being.

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07-18-2012, 02:18 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinatown81592 View Post
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/0...els-120mm.html

Apparently they are going to offer Cole 6 years $130 million according Jon Heyman of cbssports
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Anything under 150 isn't going to do it IMO.
A low-ball offer that banks on a "hometown discount" of epic proportions. Really disappointed in the Phillies if the report is true, and I hope Cole tells them to go **** themselves. What they're offering is Matt Cain money, and what Hamels deserves is closer to C.C. Sabathia money. As I've said before, he is likely going to get 7 years for at least $170 million on the open market.

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07-18-2012, 02:26 PM
  #260
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Qualls as this year's Baez. I hated him with every ounce of my being.
Same here. I haven't been able to watch many games this year. Every single game I did watch, Qualls pitched...badly. All I've seen of the Phils live has involved him ruining everything.

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07-18-2012, 02:26 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
I have hope for every team, every year. I yell at people for freaking out over the Flyers too lol. You can't find me saying "They have no chance."

I was just listening to Tim Kurkjian on SportsCenter, he said he's hearing that the Phillies plan is to see what happens in the next 10 days. If they're climbing the standings, they're probably going to make a run, but if they're still like 10 out they're probably going to sell. Apparently he heard management say they owe it to the fans and the core to give them the chance. I'm fine with this.

Any updates on Cole?
ugh ugh ugh. team is done, i don't care what anyone says. They should be building towards the future, not on some giddy hope they can become a .650 baseball team overnight.

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07-18-2012, 02:35 PM
  #262
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Cain signed for $128.5 over 6, with a 7th year option. I think Cole has a better resume, though.

I know the speculation has been running rampant as of late, but I wouldn't be surprised if this got it done. I mean we say "Cole wants Cliff money", but he took $15M for this year alone. That's a big difference from $25M. I think this could potentially get it done.

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07-18-2012, 06:03 PM
  #263
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God my heart skipped a beat there...

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Old
07-18-2012, 06:09 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
A low-ball offer that banks on a "hometown discount" of epic proportions. Really disappointed in the Phillies if the report is true, and I hope Cole tells them to go **** themselves. What they're offering is Matt Cain money, and what Hamels deserves is closer to C.C. Sabathia money. As I've said before, he is likely going to get 7 years for at least $170 million on the open market.
I don't see how this is much of a lowball. Cain and Hamels have had very similar careers. Biggest difference is probably that Hamels holds a little more valuable because he's lefty.

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07-18-2012, 06:17 PM
  #265
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Quote:
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I don't see how this is much of a lowball. Cain and Hamels have had very similar careers. Biggest difference is probably that Hamels holds a little more valuable because he's lefty.
He's also got that whole World Series MVP thing going for him.

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07-18-2012, 06:21 PM
  #266
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6 years 132 millions- 22M/year

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07-18-2012, 06:31 PM
  #267
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He's also got that whole World Series MVP thing going for him.
And Matt Cain has the whole 0.00 ERA in the playoffs thing going for him. They are very comparable.

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07-18-2012, 06:36 PM
  #268
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I don't see how this is much of a lowball. Cain and Hamels have had very similar careers. Biggest difference is probably that Hamels holds a little more valuable because he's lefty.
Being a lefty ups the value more than just a little. Again, the comparable for Hamels' contract should be closer to C.C. Sabathia than Matt Cain. That's what it will likely be on the open market. Hell, when comparing their career stats, you could make the argument that Hamels should get more (on average) than Sabathia did from the Yankees. Given Cole's age, he should certainly get a contract that exceeds what Cliff Lee got from the Phillies.

6 years for $145-150M is more like it.


Last edited by Amateur Hour: 07-18-2012 at 06:42 PM.
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07-18-2012, 06:44 PM
  #269
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There's our $50 million closer, hard at work. Well done, Pap, you sloppy seconds bum. You too, Amaro, brilliant signing. Seriously, way to go.

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07-18-2012, 06:46 PM
  #270
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There's our $50 million closer, hard at work. Well done, Pap, you sloppy seconds bum. You too, Amaro. Seriously, way to go.
His stuff isn't as electric as I remember when he was with the Sox. The fact Rollins made that play as close as it was was impressive. But Kemp was safe.

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07-18-2012, 06:50 PM
  #271
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His stuff isn't as electric as I remember when he was with the Sox. The fact Rollins made that play as close as it was was impressive. But Kemp was safe.
Papelbon's stuff hasn't been the same as it was for a few years now, any Red Sox fan will tell you that. It almost makes you wonder if the Phillies even watched him pitch in 2010 and 2011.

This is exactly why you don't spend $50 million on a closer.

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07-18-2012, 06:52 PM
  #272
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Being a lefty ups the value more than just a little. Again, the comparable for Hamels' contract should be closer to C.C. Sabathia than Matt Cain. That's what it will likely be on the open market. Hell, when comparing their career stats, you could make the argument that Hamels should get more (on average) than Sabathia did from the Yankees. Given Cole's age, he should certainly get a contract that exceeds what Cliff Lee got from the Phillies.

6 years for $145-150M is more like it.
Why isn't Matt Cain a good comparable? Just because he is a righty?

Cain: 27 years old, 3.28 career ERA, 1.17 career WHIP
Hamels: 28 years old, 3.36 career ERA, 1.14 career WHIP

I'm not sure I agree with the premise that just because he's a lefty he should be getting 20 million more total.

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07-18-2012, 07:02 PM
  #273
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Why isn't Matt Cain a good comparable? Just because he is a righty?

Cain: 27 years old, 3.28 career ERA, 1.17 career WHIP
Hamels: 28 years old, 3.36 career ERA, 1.14 career WHIP

I'm not sure I agree with the premise that just because he's a lefty he should be getting 20 million more total.
That's how it works in baseball. Elite lefty starting pitchers are the rarest and most sought-after commodity. Therefore, they get paid more.

Sabathia's age prior to signing first contract with Yankees was 28, same as Hamels. His career ERA up to that point was 3.66 (mostly in the AL) with a WHIP of 1.24. I'm telling you, that's the deal Hamels and his agent should -- and probably do -- reference in negotiations.

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07-18-2012, 07:34 PM
  #274
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And Matt Cain has the whole 0.00 ERA in the playoffs thing going for him. They are very comparable.
Doesn't have the trophy to back it up. When you are talking contract negotiations, you need the hardware to back it up. Whether you agree with it or not, that is how it is.

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07-18-2012, 07:35 PM
  #275
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And the ****ing bullpin does it again...

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