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Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): 2012 Regular Season (Utter-Lee Hopeless Part 2)

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07-18-2012, 07:09 PM
  #276
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And the ****ing bullpin does it again...
When the rest of the pen actually pitches well, Papelbon blows it. Naturally. Words cannot express how angry it makes me that he was Amaro's big offseason investment. I blame Amaro far more than Papelbon, though.

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07-18-2012, 09:00 PM
  #277
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Well, looking at the bright side, 4-2 road trip isn't bad at all, and maintaining this pace will get them a birth in the playoffs most likely. Plus it was a close game...an absolute heartbreaker.

Still many positives to take after this series. Cliff was lights out, Doc is back as is the rest of the lineup, Hunter's doing much better. You chalk this last game up as once it gets above 10 it's really anyone's game. Sucks they squandered the lead but it happens, Dodgers did it for us the night before.

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07-18-2012, 09:40 PM
  #278
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That's how it works in baseball. Elite lefty starting pitchers are the rarest and most sought-after commodity. Therefore, they get paid more.

Sabathia's age prior to signing first contract with Yankees was 28, same as Hamels. His career ERA up to that point was 3.66 (mostly in the AL) with a WHIP of 1.24. I'm telling you, that's the deal Hamels and his agent should -- and probably do -- reference in negotiations.
That was a different market though. Any time the Red Sox and Yankees are involved you're talking about a completely different number, and while both teams could use starting pitching I think that with their current salary commitments they will be aiming at a tier below guys like Hamels and Greinke.

As for the lefty-righty thing I don't think it's as big a deal as you make it out to be, certainly not a 20+ million dollar distinction. Especially when the team who is going to be possibly the highest bidder for him, the Dodgers, already have a lefty ace who is even better than Hamels.

Hamels probably could get close to 150 million in the open market, but if Cain took a hometown discount to re-sign the Giants I don't see why it would be unreasonable at all for the Phillies to make a similar offer to Hamels. This isn't really a lowball at all.

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07-18-2012, 10:38 PM
  #279
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From some reports Hamels if he tests the market he could probably get the highest pitchers contract ever. So I dont see him signing right now and not testing free agency unless he really wants to stay a Phillie and that deal is good enough for him.


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07-19-2012, 07:34 AM
  #280
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That was a different market though. Any time the Red Sox and Yankees are involved you're talking about a completely different number, and while both teams could use starting pitching I think that with their current salary commitments they will be aiming at a tier below guys like Hamels and Greinke.

As for the lefty-righty thing I don't think it's as big a deal as you make it out to be, certainly not a 20+ million dollar distinction. Especially when the team who is going to be possibly the highest bidder for him, the Dodgers, already have a lefty ace who is even better than Hamels.

Hamels probably could get close to 150 million in the open market, but if Cain took a hometown discount to re-sign the Giants I don't see why it would be unreasonable at all for the Phillies to make a similar offer to Hamels. This isn't really a lowball at all.
It is when...

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From some reports Hamels if he tests the market he could probably get the highest pitchers contract ever. So I dont see him signing right now and not testing free agency unless he really wants to stay a Phillie and that deal is good enough for him.
Hamels is going to get more than $150M on the open market, I can assure you of that.

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07-19-2012, 07:25 PM
  #281
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Apparently the Phillies and Hamels might be closer to a deal than I have expected. Hearing all different types of numbers being thrown around, so who knows. I dont think he signs unless they blow him away with an offer.


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07-20-2012, 10:47 PM
  #282
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It continues...

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07-20-2012, 10:58 PM
  #283
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Three teams told me today they pulled away on the Hamels sweepstakes because they believe the Phillies will get him signed.
If there was ever a source I considered reliable in this world of sports...

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07-21-2012, 12:15 AM
  #284
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JIM BOWDEN ‏@JimBowdenESPNxm
Cole Hamels and Phillies continue to work towards a deal that sounds like could end up at approximately 6 yrs and in the $142-$144m range
https://twitter.com/JimBowdenESPNxm

This seems to be his legit account. If this happens to be the case, Im split on it. This team needs a 3b and another OF and Cole might be able to get you that for next year. But if they do end up trading Pence he might be able to bring at least one of those pieces back.

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07-21-2012, 09:22 AM
  #285
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That would be awesome to sign Hamels and deal the rest of the garbage on this team with expiring contracts. Would be better to deal Hamels...and then Cliff Lee him and get him back again.

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07-21-2012, 02:19 PM
  #286
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I don't think an extension would be good for the Phillies OR for Cole. The Phillies need young up-and-coming players at positions of need (which Hamels can provide via trade), and Hamels could go to a team better positioned to win immediately AND cash in with a Sabathia-like contract this offseason. I have a feeling a contract extension is something both sides will come to regret.

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07-21-2012, 02:35 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
I don't think an extension would be good for the Phillies OR for Cole. The Phillies need young up-and-coming players at positions of need (which Hamels can provide via trade), and Hamels could go to a team better positioned to win immediately AND cash in with a Sabathia-like contract this offseason. I have a feeling a contract extension is something both sides will come to regret.
I have no problem trading Cole, but I think it would be better to keep him. This year is in the toilet, but Halladay and Lee are not going to be around forever. Trade other peices to get some decent prospects, maybe sign someone this or next offseason (don't know who is available).

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07-21-2012, 03:19 PM
  #288
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So we get to see if T-Mac can go an entire broadcast without being a homer. Who decided to give him a national game?

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07-21-2012, 03:46 PM
  #289
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Way to give a HR to the pitcher Cole. Then he hits one.

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07-21-2012, 06:31 PM
  #290
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More CBP failure. Blobfest was a week or so ago, I'll stick with the horror theme.


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07-21-2012, 07:27 PM
  #291
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I think the real killer is just how deflating their losses are. I think it's easier to bounce back from a drubbing than one where you fight back and then blow it.

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07-21-2012, 08:27 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I have no problem trading Cole, but I think it would be better to keep him. This year is in the toilet, but Halladay and Lee are not going to be around forever. Trade other peices to get some decent prospects, maybe sign someone this or next offseason (don't know who is available).
There looms the very real, perhaps even likely possibility that the Phillies are going to be a bad team for the next few years. Fans must take off their blinders and acknowledge the reality of the situation instead of wallowing in the delusion of yesteryear's successes. Objective viewers have seen the downfall coming for some time, so I don't view this season as a fluke so much as just an inevitability fulfilling its destiny. All the people who wanted to cry injuries as being the reason for 2012 going off the rails... well, this team has been demonstrably WORSE since getting healthy. It's not going to change in 2013. Amaro will probably just throw more money at the problems plaguing the Phillies once the offseason gets into swing, therefore digging the hole even deeper. Can't wait.

Oh, and I'd sell off Halladay and Lee during the offseason or next season, provided their declines don't accelerate too rapidly and they have any value remaining.

Lean times ahead, people. Prepare yourselves.

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07-21-2012, 08:33 PM
  #293
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I begin to dislike Papelbon more and more each game. Also, this team can't win at home.

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07-21-2012, 08:38 PM
  #294
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I begin to dislike Papelbon more and more each game. Also, this team can't win at home.
Papelbon's nickname should be Sloppy Seconds. Yet another player on the decline being paid like he's elite.

Jimmy should go on TV and blame the frontrunning fans who've abandoned this team just as quickly as they embraced it. The swaths of empty blue seats at every home game... it's just wholly embarrassing. The first bad season for the Phillies in a decade and everybody jumps ship. Yeah, great baseball fans we have in this city.

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07-21-2012, 08:38 PM
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I begin to dislike Papelbon more and more each game. Also, this team can't win at home.
Without looking up the stats, he almost always sucks in 2 innings of work from what I recall. He has his entire career. Plenty of blame to go around there. Paps for sucking in 2nd innings. Cholly for leaving him out there. RAJ for not giving Cholly other options to throw out there. The rest of the bullpen for sucking, and screwing over Paps, RAJ, and Cholly all season long.

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07-21-2012, 08:39 PM
  #296
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Jimmy should go on TV and blame the frontrunning fans who've abandoned this team just as quickly as they embraced it. The swaths of empty blue seats at every home game... it's just wholly embarrassing. The first bad season for the Phillies in a decade and everybody jumps ship. Yeah, great baseball fans we have in this city.
but but but...250 straight sellouts!

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07-21-2012, 09:57 PM
  #297
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There looms the very real, perhaps even likely possibility that the Phillies are going to be a bad team for the next few years. Fans must take off their blinders and acknowledge the reality of the situation instead of wallowing in the delusion of yesteryear's successes. Objective viewers have seen the downfall coming for some time, so I don't view this season as a fluke so much as just an inevitability fulfilling its destiny. All the people who wanted to cry injuries as being the reason for 2012 going off the rails... well, this team has been demonstrably WORSE since getting healthy. It's not going to change in 2013. Amaro will probably just throw more money at the problems plaguing the Phillies once the offseason gets into swing, therefore digging the hole even deeper. Can't wait.

Oh, and I'd sell off Halladay and Lee during the offseason or next season, provided their declines don't accelerate too rapidly and they have any value remaining.

Lean times ahead, people. Prepare yourselves.
I truly believe if RAJ miraclously finds a way to fix the bullpen they can easily be a playoff team next year. The bullpen has been the real issue, not the offense or injuries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
Papelbon's nickname should be Sloppy Seconds. Yet another player on the decline being paid like he's elite.

Jimmy should go on TV and blame the frontrunning fans who've abandoned this team just as quickly as they embraced it. The swaths of empty blue seats at every home game... it's just wholly embarrassing. The first bad season for the Phillies in a decade and everybody jumps ship. Yeah, great baseball fans we have in this city.
If this team actually played like they gave a damn maybe the fans would. And as far as Jimmy goes, the last time his dumbass opened his mouth about the fans was in game 2 in NLDS about them not being loud. Well maybe if you werent such a moron and didnt get picked off in the 7th inning they would have something to cheer about. It's these types of moronic plays that make this team so hard who cheer for and are so frustrating to watch. I dont blame the fans for not going down there and spending money to watch this garbage. It's pathetic and nobody should have to watch it.


Last edited by Justified: 07-21-2012 at 10:25 PM.
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07-22-2012, 07:34 AM
  #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
There looms the very real, perhaps even likely possibility that the Phillies are going to be a bad team for the next few years. Fans must take off their blinders and acknowledge the reality of the situation instead of wallowing in the delusion of yesteryear's successes. Objective viewers have seen the downfall coming for some time, so I don't view this season as a fluke so much as just an inevitability fulfilling its destiny. All the people who wanted to cry injuries as being the reason for 2012 going off the rails... well, this team has been demonstrably WORSE since getting healthy. It's not going to change in 2013. Amaro will probably just throw more money at the problems plaguing the Phillies once the offseason gets into swing, therefore digging the hole even deeper. Can't wait.

Oh, and I'd sell off Halladay and Lee during the offseason or next season, provided their declines don't accelerate too rapidly and they have any value remaining.

Lean times ahead, people. Prepare yourselves.
I've been looking forward to it!

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07-22-2012, 07:35 AM
  #299
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Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
Jimmy should go on TV and blame the frontrunning fans who've abandoned this team just as quickly as they embraced it. The swaths of empty blue seats at every home game... it's just wholly embarrassing. The first bad season for the Phillies in a decade and everybody jumps ship. Yeah, great baseball fans we have in this city.
Exactly what I have been saying and why I said in the beginning of the year that it is more fun to be a Phillies fan when they suck.

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07-22-2012, 10:29 AM
  #300
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I would gladly take a few bad years to weed out the fake fans that have made it unenjoyable to be a Phils' fan. Bring back my free tickets stuffed in a pack of hot dogs!

A Phillies' game shouldn't mean you're going to tailgate with a bunch of hookers, it means you should watch the damn game.

The worst part has been as a Flyers fan hearing this town is a baseball town. I'm sorry but it's not. It's a football town, with a realllllly strong hockey market. When the Eagles suck, they sell out. When the Flyers suck, they sell out (mostly). When the Phils' stuck, all of the hipsters go elsewhere. I just don't think this is an elite baseball town at all.

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