Am I the only one here that thinks some of you guys are overreacting to Bernier talking?
It isn't as if he's badmouthing the organization.
As Ziggy said above, he is not only hurting the team's chances at getting value for him, he is actually (and ironically) hurting his own chances at getting traded timely by talking so much.
Which makes him stupid in my book. To actually wish something to occur (in this case, the desire to be traded), and then to go out and repeatedly act in a way that makes it much more difficult to get what you wish is just plain...
Have you ever seen a team receive full value for a player who has publicly voiced his desire to be traded? He can make his request in private, that's fine, but to go public hurts LA's leverage.
Have you ever seen a team receive full value for a player who has publicly voiced his desire to be traded? He can make his request in private, that's fine, but to go public hurts LA's leverage.
Am I the only one here that thinks some of you guys are overreacting to Bernier talking?
It isn't as if he's badmouthing the organization.
He doesn't need to badmouth the Kings for him to look stupid. He just needs to be quiet. Dean knows Bernier wants a chance to prove himself. Bernier doesn't need to remind him every chance he gets. It just makes him look bad.
Although the rumors were out there, I don't think you can find any quotes that can be attributed to Carter saying he wanted out. It was obvious the day he was traded he was pissed off, but that's a different circumstance considering the contract he had signed thinking he'd be a Flyer for life.
Well, I'm guessing it's Frattin or one of their goalies plus a pick as it's been rumored. I would love Frattin down in manchester, but I'd doubt he'd be happy having to play down in the ahl.
Interesting. If it's a goalie we want back, I put my money on Acrivens due to the cap hit and likely much lower cost. Plus he's put up great numbers where ever he's been. If it's a skater, Frattin or MacArthur seem the likely choices, though maybe we want a bigger deal and are seeking Lupul somehow. No matter what happens, there will be picks involved as well, or maybe a prospect.
If we go the prospect route, I hope we somehow include Joe Colbourne in the deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black1963
Well, I'm guessing it's Frattin or one of their goalies plus a pick as it's been rumored. I would love Frattin down in manchester, but I'd doubt he'd be happy having to play down in the ahl.
Why would he be in the AHL? He's a legit NHLer and frankly I'd rather try to work him in than keep up Richardson (not to mention it'd be a cap savings of $250,000 between the two).
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfansince1967
I still am convinced that the best we could get for Bernier is a back-up goalie and a 2nd or 3rd round pick.
The fact that Jonathan B was drafted in Round number One doesn't prove anything.
Do you know these Round One picks between 2000 and 2006 (and it is more than expected that they would have became number one goalies since)
In 2000: Brent Krahn CAL Pick #9
In 2001: Pascal Leclaire COL #8; Jason Bashihua DAL #26; Adam Munro CHI #29
In 2002: Hannu Toiven BOS #29
In 2004: Al Montoya NYR #6
In 2006: Riku Henius TB #15
And about Round 1 and Round 2 picks that are in the NHL but are far from being dominant: Martin Biron; Rick Di Pietro; Alex Auld; Peter Budaj, Senyon Varlamov
Later picks that have proven themselves as of now: Ryan Miller (Round 5 #148); Pekka Rinne (R8 #258) Ryan Miller (R5 #138); Jonathan Quick (R3 #72); N Khabibulin (R9 #204); Mike Smith (R5 #161). And let's not forget undrafted signed as free agents: Antti Niemi and Jonas Hiller.
I still believe that the best case scenario would be to have him start the 2012-2013 season (when the season starts..., give him more opportunities and higher un the stakes for a better trade come trade deadline. But I just don't think that will happen, Bernier will be trader before training camp.
Who are the teams in need of a solid #1 goalie: Islanders, Maple Leafs, Senators and Penguins (Oh yeah we could but in Vancouver because of Roberto "choker" Luongo but they have Schneider...).
These teams could be interested in Bernier but then again, all confident we can be that Bernier will be a goad goalie in the NHL (and I am part of the "we") that still has to be proven. Here in Montreal my Habs "friends" haven't forgot a certain Jose Theodore... It is nice to think that Bernier will be a great goalie but as the old saying goes "The proof of the pudding is in the eating"
This says nothing. Have some first round goalie picks flopped? Sure. So have a lot more 1st round forwards and D-men too.
There is another thread elsewhere, I believe on the prosepct boards, about where goalies are drafted. Dominant or not, about half of all NHL goalies (starters or backups) last year were former first round picks or 2nd round picks. Something like 14 of 30 starters in the NHL last year (starter being the goalie with the most games played in for their particular team) were first or second round picks. Your odds of a 1st round goalie panning out are higher than any other round.
Additionally, it shouldn't be ignored that the team acquiring Bernier may not be doing it to use him as their starter THIS season. Say for example New Jersey tardes for Bernier. They would be doing so with the expectation that Bernier starts say 30 games next year and the year after, lessing Broduer's workload, but also setting him up to start full time in a few years when broduer retires. I doubt NJ gets Bernier, but it's an example to illustrate a point. Other teams may want to look at what St. Louis did with their tandem netminding between Elliott and Halak, and a guy like Bernier would be very ideal for that; a goalie that needs more playing time, but maybe isn't ready for 55+ games a season either. As such, the number of teams after Bernier could be substancially higher than you think.
Trade value will likely fall in line somewhere either with Lindback's return, or Varlamnov's return (I say closer to Lindback's). Those are your precidents, and DL has plenty of time to play chicken with another GM who needs a goalie much more than DL needs to trade one.
Btw, what is there to 'forget' about Theodore? Yeah, his final few seasons weren't the best, but the guy won a Hart and Vezina there and was you're starting goalie for 5+ seasons, three of which he had a save percentage of .919 or higher. I don't get the comparision to Bernier at all, unless you're implying Bernier will do as well as Theodore. That's hardly a bad thing.
I don't think you'll get Colbourne from the Leafs, as Centre is not in a position of strength. You can get good grinders, two way defensemen, or 2nd/3rd round picks.
Why would he be in the AHL? He's a legit NHLer and frankly I'd rather try to work him in than keep up Richardson (not to mention it'd be a cap savings of $250,000 between the two).
Because we're loaded on the LW. And having Frattin replace Richie just means, he'll be a healthy scratch, which isn't beneficial to anyone.
I've read somewhere that Frattin has a one way contract, so, his option may only be the nhl.
I say let's take Brad Ross who's still couple of years away plus a pick instead of Frattin.
Because we're loaded on the LW. And having Frattin replace Richie just means, he'll be a healthy scratch, which isn't beneficial to anyone.
I've read somewhere that Frattin has a one way contract, so, his option may only be the nhl.
I say let's take Brad Ross who's still couple of years away plus a pick instead of Frattin.
Then move him to the other wing. The easiest position to move to is the wings (or from one wing to another). As the above poster said, Frattin plays both wings anyways.
Yes we won the cup, but we can't simply approach this as everyone is locked into their roles from the playoffs and that it will work in the regular season. Remember, we barely even made the playoffs and as crazy awesome as our playoff run was, I don't think we should expect to see an 8th seed win the cup again for a long time. there's a reason we were the first to ever do it.
Frattin would be a great player to have around, especially if Penner tanks again or Gagne gets hurt. We were woefully short on the wings last year, let's not fool ourselves that the playoffs cured all that.
Then move him to the other wing. The easiest position to move to is the wings (or from one wing to another). As the above poster said, Frattin plays both wings anyways.
Yes we won the cup, but we can't simply approach this as everyone is locked into their roles from the playoffs and that it will work in the regular season. Remember, we barely even made the playoffs and as crazy awesome as our playoff run was, I don't think we should expect to see an 8th seed win the cup again for a long time. there's a reason we were the first to ever do it.
Frattin would be a great player to have around, especially if Penner tanks again or Gagne gets hurt. We were woefully short on the wings last year, let's not fool ourselves that the playoffs cured all that.
The Kings were also 13-5-3 after the Carter trade in the regular season (113 point season pace). That would be 29-9-3 in the last 41 games played by the Kings (122 point season pace). They weren't a typical 8th seed and they didn't get "hot" for the playoffs. They played to their potential once Carter was acquired. This was the same team that was a pre-season cup "contender" on paper.
I don't expect a President's trophy season, but a Pacific crown shouldn't be much of a stretch for next season.
Having Brown, Williams, Carter, Penner, Gagne, Lewis, King, Nolan, Richardson and Clifford is woefully short on the wings?
This will also be Sutter's first training camp with the Kings and they will have a new offensive assistant coach that is more in line with what Sutter wants to see from the Kings.
As Ziggy said above, he is not only hurting the team's chances at getting value for him, he is actually (and ironically) hurting his own chances at getting traded timely by talking so much.
Which makes him stupid in my book. To actually wish something to occur (in this case, the desire to be traded), and then to go out and repeatedly act in a way that makes it much more difficult to get what you wish is just plain...
...stupid (just can't think of a more apt word).
Yup and even if the other GMs know, that just means it was even less necessary for him to trumpet it. Kings get a tiny bit hurt by this in the big picture but Bernier undoes a lot of the work he did on his image the last couple of years trying to make himself look like a good teammate instead of the pouty, self-entitled former first-rounder.
The Kings were also 13-5-3 after the Carter trade in the regular season (113 point season pace). That would be 29-9-3 in the last 41 games played by the Kings (122 point season pace). They weren't a typical 8th seed and they didn't get "hot" for the playoffs. They played to their potential once Carter was acquired. This was the same team that was a pre-season cup "contender" on paper.
I don't expect a President's trophy season, but a Pacific crown shouldn't be much of a stretch for next season.
Having Brown, Williams, Carter, Penner, Gagne, Lewis, King, Nolan, Richardson and Clifford is woefully short on the wings?
This will also be Sutter's first training camp with the Kings and they will have a new offensive assistant coach that is more in line with what Sutter wants to see from the Kings.
Come on Syd, can it with your help symbols with me here.
Let me clarrify, we were woefully thin on scoring wingers last year. Looking at the list you gave above, Brown, WIlliams and Carter are the only consistent things there and while Penner, Gagne and King all have the potential pop to add to that group, I'd be more than happy to add another winger in who has upside in case all three fail, and there's reason to be cautious on all three of them.
I also know very well how the Kings did after Carter. I also know teams will be much more mindful of that next year as well. That Pacific crown will not be as easy to win as you think.
Any interest in a package for a prospect like Jerry D'Amigo and a backup in Ben Scrivens?
Jerry D'Amigo + Ben Scrivens + 2nd Round Pick (2013)
Jerry D'Amigo is a LW. Compares his style to Zach Parise. Lock to be at least a 3rd line winger, 2nd line upside. Could use another season in AHL. Stud in AHL playoffs and still only 21 years old. Lombardi must know him well since he's a USA product. Scrivens is ready for the NHL, he was absolutely dominant in the AHL playoffs and is a quality person. Very evident he went to Cornell and has a good head on his shoulders. The 2nd round pick is in a deep draft.
Any interest in a package for a prospect like Jerry D'Amigo and a backup in Ben Scrivens? Jerry D'Amigo + Ben Scrivens + 2nd Round Pick (2013) Jerry D'Amigo is a LW. Compares his style to Zach Parise. Lock to be at least a 3rd line winger, 2nd line upside. Could use another season in AHL. Stud in AHL playoffs and still only 21 years old. Lombardi must know him well since he's a USA product. Scrivens is ready for the NHL, he was absolutely dominant in the AHL playoffs and is a quality person. Very evident he went to Cornell and has a good head on his shoulders. The 2nd round pick is in a deep draft. I really want Jonathan Bernier in Toronto.
