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Official Predators Off-Season 2012 Thread - Part II

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07-18-2012, 11:28 AM
  #601
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Take the young players you get from the Weber trade, hoard as many great picks as you can get (pawn off the Erats/Legwands/Fishers/Etc), keep your fingers crossed you can land a few dynamic talents in the and next thing you know, we might be the new Pittsburgh Penguins.
I agree with maybe trying to trade Erat/Legwand and a few others, BUT would not trade Fisher. He is a very hard worker, has done very well so far as a Pred and his Off the Ice behavior is exemplary! I like his grit and determination. Plus he helps with the Country connection. I don't see him being moved unless he and CU split up.

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07-18-2012, 11:58 AM
  #602
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The biggest problem this team could face isn't being bad. It's not being bad enough, and not being good enough to be a contender.
Bingo. One peril of the Poile blueprint is you perennially hang at or just below the 8th spot in the conference. Its good in that you stay competitive year-in, year-out. It is bad in that short of a monster trade (like what could happen with Weber) you are drafting in the middle of the first round. Chances of getting a grade A player there are astronomically lower than in the top 6 (where the surest impact players are).

Pittsburgh and Edmonton are prime examples of what sucking a couple of years can do for your prospect pool. (Yes, Oilers are still in the potential realm but who would not want the prospects they have been able to acquire the past 4 years?) So in a way your success as an organization penalizes you. Not that I see a need to change the draft system, I am just saying...

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07-18-2012, 12:40 PM
  #603
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jesus, one guy leaves and all of a sudden we suck? I am not saying the loss will not hurt, but cmon. Assuming Weber re-upps, we are ok. Our kids are a year older, thier games more mature. That alone will make up for some of what we lost. Doan coming here would be fine. If anything, we could use another vet in the lineup so we aren't running too many kids out there still.

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07-18-2012, 12:48 PM
  #604
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Why in the world would Doan sign for a rebuilding Preds team?

Let's face it, if Weber leaves and we commit to rebuild, the best thing this team could do is finish in the tank and land a guy like McKinnon.

Finishing in 10th does this team no good.

Take the young players you get from the Weber trade, hoard as many great picks as you can get (pawn off the Erats/Legwands/Fishers/Etc), keep your fingers crossed you can land a few dynamic talents in the and next thing you know, we might be the new Pittsburgh Penguins.

The biggest problem this team could face isn't being bad. It's not being bad enough, and not being good enough to be a contender.
The goal of any team should be to be as competitive as they can year in and year out. I hate seeing advocation of tanking for draft picks and 'mailing in' seasons. I am certainly naive on this point, but it goes completely against the spirit of competitive pro sports and is a giant middle finger to the fanbase that spends $ supporting this team. The willingness of the Kings organization to suck long enough to accrue higher draft picks and prospects was a major reason I could no longer support the team I'd fanatically followed my whole life. I sure hope, despite the chagrin to some parts of the fanbase, to never see this organization willingly take that kind of turn.

I find it...sad...with all the talk of loyalty, or lack thereof, on the parts of players (i.e. Suter), that people around here are content to dump some of the players that have shown genuine loyalty to this organization.

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07-18-2012, 12:55 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
The goal of any team should be to be as competitive as they can year in and year out. I hate seeing advocation of tanking for draft picks and 'mailing in' seasons. I am certainly naive on this point, but it goes completely against the spirit of competitive pro sports and is a giant middle finger to the fanbase that spends $ supporting this team. The willingness of the Kings organization to suck long enough to accrue higher draft picks and prospects was a major reason I could no longer support the team I'd fanatically followed my whole life. I sure hope, despite the chagrin to some parts of the fanbase, to never see this organization willingly take that kind of turn.

I find it...sad...with all the talk of loyalty, or lack thereof, on the parts of players (i.e. Suter), that people around here are content to dump some of the players that have shown genuine loyalty to this organization.
All well and good.

None of it gets us any closer to winning a Stanley Cup.

Chicago and Pittsburgh have Cups because they sucked enough to land dynamic talents.

Finishing 8-10 for a decade might make us lower level competitive, but will accomplish little else.

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07-18-2012, 12:57 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
jesus, one guy leaves and all of a sudden we suck? I am not saying the loss will not hurt, but cmon. Assuming Weber re-upps, we are ok. Our kids are a year older, thier games more mature. That alone will make up for some of what we lost. Doan coming here would be fine. If anything, we could use another vet in the lineup so we aren't running too many kids out there still.
My point was if Weber leaves.

If Weber stays, then we're really no worse off, as I think highly enough of our youngsters that Suter can be replaced by the guys we have, like a Josi or Blum. In 2 years we won't know the difference.

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07-18-2012, 12:59 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
All well and good.

None of it gets us any closer to winning a Stanley Cup.

Chicago and Pittsburgh have Cups because they sucked enough to land dynamic talents.

Finishing 8-10 for a decade might make us lower level competitive, but will accomplish little else.
Teams like Atlanta, Columbus and the Islanders have sucked and have had the opportunity to land dynamic talents but they suck so while it seems like a great idea to suck, we could also suck and get nothing in the draft that helps us and we continue to suck.

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07-18-2012, 01:01 PM
  #608
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All well and good.

None of it gets us any closer to winning a Stanley Cup.

Chicago and Pittsburgh have Cups because they sucked enough to land dynamic talents.

Finishing 8-10 for a decade might make us lower level competitive, but will accomplish little else.
Nor does finishing in lottery territory. There's as much chance our picks turn us into a Florida, Columbus, Edmonton, Atlanta/Winnipeg or Islanders as they do a Pittsburgh or Chicago.

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07-18-2012, 01:27 PM
  #609
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Hey guys, Flyers fan in peace.

I was wondering; were you guys at all surprised that JP Dumont wasn't extended a contract from anyone when he became a FA? I know his numbers dropped in his last few years, but I remember him always being a good 2-way forward. Is this incorrect? I didn't watch him play THAT much but I remember liking his game in the limited viewings I had of him.

What can you tell me about him that might have contributed to him not being signed by anyone? I wouldnt mind if the flyers gave him a 1 year deal to see if he could perhaps revive his career. I know that he and Danny Briere are friends, so it could be a possibility

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07-18-2012, 01:30 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Hey guys, Flyers fan in peace.

I was wondering; were you guys at all surprised that JP Dumont wasn't extended a contract from anyone when he became a FA? I know his numbers dropped in his last few years, but I remember him always being a good 2-way forward. Is this incorrect? I didn't watch him play THAT much but I remember liking his game in the limited viewings I had of him.

What can you tell me about him that might have contributed to him not being signed by anyone? I wouldnt mind if the flyers gave him a 1 year deal to see if he could perhaps revive his career.
yes, it is ... he's a one zone player since he got his head rattled the year before we bought him out

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07-18-2012, 01:30 PM
  #611
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
Nor does finishing in lottery territory. There's as much chance our picks turn us into a Florida, Columbus, Edmonton, Atlanta/Winnipeg or Islanders as they do a Pittsburgh or Chicago.
No doubt, you might not land the next Crosby picking early.

But, the chances are much greater than picking 10-15.

I still state that the worst thing that can happen to a franchise is to be stuck in the Calgary like doldrums - never good enough to challenge, never bad enough to acquire any game-changing talent.

Except for us, it's worse, because we don't sign free agents. So that avenue to rebuilding is closed. At least Calgary will spend some money.

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07-18-2012, 02:00 PM
  #612
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No doubt, you might not land the next Crosby picking early.

But, the chances are much greater than picking 10-15.

I still state that the worst thing that can happen to a franchise is to be stuck in the Calgary like doldrums - never good enough to challenge, never bad enough to acquire any game-changing talent.

Except for us, it's worse, because we don't sign free agents. So that avenue to rebuilding is closed. At least Calgary will spend some money.
It isn't like they're bringing in all that much quality with the $ they do spend. Preds have been a tight budget team for nearly all their existence, I'm willing to give the organization a couple of seasons to prove that they're sincere in raising the payroll before I'll make a judgment.

Calgary is stuck for a variety of reasons, part of that being that they apparently don't realize they're not good enough to make the playoffs, and haven't really made any substantial improvements to the roster in the 3 seasons since they were last in. The Preds have never really gone through a similar stretch, in part because Poile wouldn't allow the same team to sit outside the playoff bubble for that long without changing things up. Calgary also wasn't developing much of their own talent, something that have a very good track record for, despite the often poor draft position.

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07-18-2012, 02:08 PM
  #613
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I agree with maybe trying to trade Erat/Legwand and a few others, BUT would not trade Fisher. He is a very hard worker, has done very well so far as a Pred and his Off the Ice behavior is exemplary! I like his grit and determination. Plus he helps with the Country connection. I don't see him being moved unless he and CU split up.
Aside from the fact that Erat has a NMC and Legwand has a NTC, why would we trade either? I guess I can see trying to move Legwand if we are getting a top line center (read: a center between than any of the ones we currently have), but Erat is one of the few legitimate top line wingers we have. Not only that, but the guy is exceptional in his own end. Erat plays the entire sheet of ice, and does so effectively. He is a consistent 50-60 point guy. Trading him creates another hole on a team that, believe it or not, still has very few.

I think a lot of people are preparing for a rebuild when we're a ways away from that.

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07-18-2012, 02:11 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
No doubt, you might not land the next Crosby picking early.

But, the chances are much greater than picking 10-15.

I still state that the worst thing that can happen to a franchise is to be stuck in the Calgary like doldrums - never good enough to challenge, never bad enough to acquire any game-changing talent.

Except for us, it's worse, because we don't sign free agents. So that avenue to rebuilding is closed. At least Calgary will spend some money.
I don't see why it's closed. Maybe it's closed this summer, but leading into this summer was the first time the owners have been vocal about spending money. It also happened to be a pretty weak free agency market in terms of what we need, and that wasn't helped any by Suter stringing Poile along.

If the new CBA limits contract lengths I think we begin to see more active free agencies again. The fact of the matter is that big time players are being signed to life time deals, so the free agency market has been pretty bare for a few seasons now.

edit: Post #11,000!


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07-18-2012, 02:13 PM
  #615
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Aside from the fact that Erat has a NMC and Legwand has a NTC, why would we trade either? I guess I can see trying to move Legwand if we are getting a top line center (read: a center between than any of the ones we currently have), but Erat is one of the few legitimate top line wingers we have. Not only that, but the guy is exceptional in his own end. Erat plays the entire sheet of ice, and does so effectively. He is a consistent 50-60 point guy. Trading him creates another hole on a team that, believe it or not, still has very few.

I think a lot of people are preparing for a rebuild when we're a ways away from that.
In reality, it's kind of already underway. We were already one of the youngest teams in the league last season. Even if we were to 'rebuild,' we would need veteran roster players to ensure we don't get obliterated every night and to mentor the younger guys, which is a role that the likes of Fish, Legwand, Erat and Gill perfectly fill. Not all rebuilds need to start from rock bottom.

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07-18-2012, 02:29 PM
  #616
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I don't know. I just don't see Suter's departure as being big enough of a loss to start wanting to ship out Legwand/Erat/etc. As you said, Iron, we have a lot of young players. We don't need more really. What we need is a vet on D who can eat top 4 minutes (preferably someone who can move the puck if Josi is going to play with Weber), but if Blum can step in and play with Klein like he did in his first 23 games we're in good shape there. Still, I wouldn't count on that, so a vet 3/4 defenseman who can move the puck up the ice is the best bet there. A center who is better than Legwand or Fisher is another need. Another top line winger would be nice.

Really we're just looking to plug holes. Unfortunately, we are once again looking at plugging the same holes a lot of teams are looking to plug, and, as fans, we are hoping to get the caliber of players that is rare to begin with, even without a lot of competition from other teams. I wouldn't consider that to be a rebuild. Just standard operating procedure.

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07-18-2012, 07:38 PM
  #617
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Just to clarify my comments about rebuilding above: I was referring to the team's situation in Weber does NOT suit up for Nashville this season. And no, a top 6 pick is no guarantee, either. But the odds are significantly better picking up there. I don't see this organization as currently managed coming up with multiple bad choices like the BJs for example.

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07-18-2012, 07:40 PM
  #618
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multiple top-5 picks could likely mean those prospects end up starring for the Quebec City Predators... Tanking is NOT an option.

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07-18-2012, 08:04 PM
  #619
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multiple top-5 picks could likely mean those prospects end up starring for the Quebec City Predators... Tanking is NOT an option.
As bad as that would suck, i would still cheer for them if they wore the old Nordique jerseys. Those were beautiful.

Agreed though, tanking isn't an option really. Re-tool? sure. Miss the playoffs for one season, get a pick around 7-10, then gun for the playoffs the year after.

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07-18-2012, 11:49 PM
  #620
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Hey guys, Flyers fan in peace.

I was wondering; were you guys at all surprised that JP Dumont wasn't extended a contract from anyone when he became a FA? I know his numbers dropped in his last few years, but I remember him always being a good 2-way forward. Is this incorrect? I didn't watch him play THAT much but I remember liking his game in the limited viewings I had of him.

What can you tell me about him that might have contributed to him not being signed by anyone? I wouldnt mind if the flyers gave him a 1 year deal to see if he could perhaps revive his career. I know that he and Danny Briere are friends, so it could be a possibility
Ever since the "hit", he was never the same again. He played scared and always made passes, even when he was all alone. That's why I called him Just Pass Dumont. And alot of times in the offensive zone, he'd pass back to no one and it would go harmlessly out of the zone.

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07-18-2012, 11:54 PM
  #621
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Dreger says Weber signs an offer sheet in Philly.

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07-18-2012, 11:55 PM
  #622
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Dreger says Weber signs an offer sheet in Philly.
Match that shiznit ...

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07-19-2012, 01:28 AM
  #623
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If the Preds didn't match Weber's contract for some reason who would they spend money on just to get to the cap floor?

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07-19-2012, 02:39 AM
  #624
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If the Preds didn't match Weber's contract for some reason who would they spend money on just to get to the cap floor?
No freaking telling. Offer massive contracts to everyone, kinda like florida last offseason?

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07-19-2012, 03:25 AM
  #625
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Dreger says Weber signs an offer sheet in Philly.
Does philly have all their picks to even offer one?

Regardless, unless its more than 10 mil per for 14 yrs, poile matches and sez "thanks Paul!"

Edit.. Tsn now saying its 14 yrs/100 mil. That's less cap hit than suter. Poile matches that without an eyeblink, you would think.

I could live with losing weber for multiple players, but for 4 draft picks, no way


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