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Old
07-19-2012, 12:54 AM
  #76
Lord Flashheart
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I really hope this blows into Holmgren's face. Such a dick move. And where's the loyalty from Weber? Pathetic.

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07-19-2012, 01:00 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
Nashville's stated that money isn't an object in retaining both Suter and Weber, after losing one money won't be an object in retaining the other. Holmgren might've just done all of Nashville's negotiating for them.

I don't doubt Holmgren thinks he has Nashville backed into a corner here. The keyword being thinks. But IMO this is the best thing that could've happened for Nashville.
True, and really, even if Nashville doesn't want to spend that much for him, there is still no reason for them to not match. The first year is the only one they would be guaranteed to be stuck with. After the first year, he can be traded, and I can't imagine there wouldn't be a lot of interested parties(and for a lot more than they'd get in compensation from Philly).

The more I look at it the more this looks like it should be a win-win for Nashville, which makes me wonder what the hell Holmgren was thinking. Either there is something here we don't know about, or Holmgren just did something incredibly stupid, basically guaranteeing Weber goes somewhere other than Philly.

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07-19-2012, 01:09 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
Nashville's stated that money isn't an object in retaining both Suter and Weber, after losing one money won't be an object in retaining the other. Holmgren might've just done all of Nashville's negotiating for them.

I don't doubt Holmgren thinks he has Nashville backed into a corner here. The keyword being thinks. But IMO this is the best thing that could've happened for Nashville.
If it's true that there is a year with 26m owed to Weber alone, I'm sure it gets to a point where money is an issue

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07-19-2012, 01:10 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
I really hope this blows into Holmgren's face. Such a dick move. And where's the loyalty from Weber? Pathetic.
You can't really blame Weber, he's looking out for him and his families best interests. Joe Sakic, a Colorado/Quebec lifer signed a ridiculous offer sheet with the Rangers and nobody questions his loyalty.

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07-19-2012, 01:17 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
If it's true that there is a year with 26m owed to Weber alone, I'm sure it gets to a point where money is an issue
It's not a season, it's a calendar year, the wordings just funny. Suter and Parise both get $22 million in a calendar year, and Nashville probably would've matched the Suter contract if given the chance.

I also wouldn't doubt, given it's Holmgren, is that half of the "poison pill" was a full NMC. If there's a GM who would've made a screw up like that, it's him.

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07-19-2012, 01:20 AM
  #81
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Yeah, I don't fault Weber here. I'm not saying I wouldn't be upset with him if I were a Nashville fan, but this contract secures his financial future, and really, the future of his children(and beyond) as well. Now, if Nashville matches and then Weber demands a trade within the next 5 years, then I'd call him out for being a ******.

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Old
07-19-2012, 01:23 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
It's not a season, it's a calendar year, the wordings just funny. Suter and Parise both get $22 million in a calendar year, and Nashville probably would've matched the Suter contract if given the chance.

I also wouldn't doubt, given it's Holmgren, is that half of the "poison pill" was a full NMC. If there's a GM who would've made a screw up like that, it's him.
Huh. Unless I'm mistaken, matching an offer sheet doesn't include things like performance bonuses and NMC's. Could Holmgren really be that stupid, to not make sure? That would be some poison pill... it wouldn't even qualify as a placebo.

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07-19-2012, 01:27 AM
  #83
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4: Wait, what if there's an NTC/NMC? Then isnt Nashville stuck with this contract?
A: Nashville only has to match the principal terms of the offersheet, meaning the salary/signing bonuses/structure. (CBA 10.3 B+E)

Assume it's some sort of signing bonus

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07-19-2012, 01:31 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Huh. Unless I'm mistaken, matching an offer sheet doesn't include things like performance bonuses and NMC's. Could Holmgren really be that stupid, to not make sure? That would be some poison pill... it wouldn't even qualify as a placebo.
It doesn't, but Holmgren has a history of making what he thinks are cunning moves but in the end were stupid. Like with Sbisa, when he thought that by limiting him to 39 games played, it wouldn't count as an accrued season(it did), or with Pronger, where he thought that by getting him to sign the contract when he was 34, it wouldn't count as a 35+ contract(it did).

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07-19-2012, 01:32 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Huh. Unless I'm mistaken, matching an offer sheet doesn't include things like performance bonuses and NMC's. Could Holmgren really be that stupid, to not make sure? That would be some poison pill... it wouldn't even qualify as a placebo.
He signed Pronger to a 35+ contract thinking he was signing him to a circumvention contract. Not the brightest bulb.

I'd really like Nashville to not match, then have the CBA drop the cap down into the 50's with no grandfathering just to watch him have to completely deconstruct the team.

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07-19-2012, 02:00 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
He signed Pronger to a 35+ contract thinking he was signing him to a circumvention contract. Not the brightest bulb.

I'd really like Nashville to not match, then have the CBA drop the cap down into the 50's with no grandfathering just to watch him have to completely deconstruct the team.
I guess I have a hard time believing someone would make the same mistake(that is, not checking the rules/information available) three times. Especially when it's the GM of a sports franchise. We're not talking about an employee at In'n'Out screwing up your order. It's just such a stupid thing to screw up, and to do it so many times...

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07-19-2012, 02:19 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
I guess I have a hard time believing someone would make the same mistake(that is, not checking the rules/information available) three times. Especially when it's the GM of a sports franchise. We're not talking about an employee at In'n'Out screwing up your order. It's just such a stupid thing to screw up, and to do it so many times...
True, but it's hard to believe he did it once, let alone twice. I remember when the Pronger extension was announced, Flyers fans(not unlike they are now) were convinced Holmgren knew something we didn't and didn't make a dumb move. However, maybe the poison pill is Holmgren just offering Weber a ridiculous contract altogether, like with a $9 million cap hit. If that's the case, holy eff, they would probably be screwed long term. They have over $10 million coming off next year, but would still have to give away contracts, and then after the 2014 season they'd have quite a few big RFAs.


Also, this gives us even more leverage with Getzlaf and Perry negotiations. If it wasn't completely dead already, this deal will kill these lifetime contracts, small market teams are going to fight tooth and nail to ban them. So now those two have a month and a half to get them.

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07-19-2012, 02:27 AM
  #88
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Yeah, I'm not going to bother discussing the possibility that he screwed up with Philly fans. I remember quite vividly how certain they were that he couldn't possibly make that mistake. Riiiiight. We'll see how things turn out.

I agree, this type of brute force move should be good motivation for the NHL to stop these kinds of contracts altogether. I guess that's something to be grateful for. Man, I'm going to be so pissed if there is a lockout.

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07-19-2012, 02:28 AM
  #89
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Talon "deconstructed" Chicago by not sending out offers to their top talent in time causing them to get a huge pay increase, which in turn didn't allow enough money to sign everyone from their Cup season. It happens.
Funny thing is...Weber SIGNED the offer sheet. He didn't call Poille, and let him know what was going on. Even if Nas. "matches", they're going to get a pissed off player that doesn't really want to be there anymore. Wonder if this harkens back to sitting certain players " on principal", during a very important Playoff series...rather than playing to win, regardless of if a couple of players missed a team curfew by an hour or two? Guess all those 200% percenter armchair GM's will spin this differently. LoL

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07-19-2012, 02:42 AM
  #90
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I'm not sure there's anything to this past Weber wanting a mega deal before they are outlawed. Sakic, Stevens, and Tkachuk all signed huge offer sheets then happily stayed when their teams matched. Who knows, the new CBA may even get rid of the stipulation that you can't trade an offer sheet matched player for a year.

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07-19-2012, 02:46 AM
  #91
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I think this makes thing even more confusing as to re-signng Perry and Getz. Neither they nor the Ducks knows what the next CBA will bring so how can either side know what a "fair" contract might be? And the league may only get minimal concessions on the contract length or front loading if any at all. And don't look for the players to extend the time to UFA. Seems like one big mess to me. Glad I'm not Bob. (OK, I've always been glad I'm not Bob. )

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07-19-2012, 02:56 AM
  #92
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I think this makes thing even more confusing as to re-signng Perry and Getz. Neither they nor the Ducks knows what the next CBA will bring so how can either side know what a "fair" contract might be? And the league may only get minimal concessions on the contract length or front loading if any at all. And don't look for the players to extend the time to UFA. Seems like one big mess to me. Glad I'm not Bob. (OK, I've always been glad I'm not Bob. )
After this, I'm guessing the NHL fights tooth and nail for it. They wanted it before, but they never really had much proof in the sense that it was hurting small market teams, especially with a smaller market handing out two of them. This changes things, though.

And we don't know for sure, but it's a very safe bet these contracts are done with. If I'm Getzlaf or Perry, I don't bet against that happening for sure. Too risky IMO.

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07-19-2012, 05:14 AM
  #93
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Well that was an interesting move. With possibly Weber gone Nashville doesn't look that scary anymore. And I like Philly more than them so I can respect this move.

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07-19-2012, 06:43 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
You can't really blame Weber, he's looking out for him and his families best interests. Joe Sakic, a Colorado/Quebec lifer signed a ridiculous offer sheet with the Rangers and nobody questions his loyalty.
What I meant is he was going to get that type of contract anyway. Why then put Nashville in such a tough spot, especially when he already knows Nashville swallowed very bitter pill with Suter (the way he at the beginning of the season said he'll sign, and then also said he'll give Nashville last chance to match)? Does making his name under one of the best defensive coaches in the NHL means nothing, and it's all about how front loaded the contract is?


Last edited by Lord Flashheart: 07-20-2012 at 12:57 PM.
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07-19-2012, 07:32 AM
  #95
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Holy ****, that's some news to wake up to.

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Old
07-19-2012, 09:11 AM
  #96
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Holmgren has gone insane.

Pronger deal and 35+. Bryzgalov contract. Trading Carter and Richards. Those rumors about pursuing Ryan when forward strength isn't the biggest need. Now this, although they could use Weber.

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07-19-2012, 10:01 AM
  #97
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Holmgren has gone insane.

Pronger deal and 35+. Bryzgalov contract. Trading Carter and Richards. Those rumors about pursuing Ryan when forward strength isn't the biggest need. Now this, although they could use Weber.
I think all of the things you mention warrant the assumption of his insanity to diverging degrees, except for signing Weber to this deal. With the money in hand, I think it's pretty much a no-brainer for them.

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Old
07-19-2012, 10:46 AM
  #98
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Per Dreger:
1+13m in first 4y,
4+8m in next 2y,
6m in next 4y,
3m,
and 1m for the rest of the contract.

110m over 14y. 80m in first 6y.


Last edited by Lord Flashheart: 07-19-2012 at 12:53 PM.
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Old
07-19-2012, 11:17 AM
  #99
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Kind of like the Lin offer sheet. Trying to structure it to make it more likely the team doesn't match.

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07-19-2012, 11:34 AM
  #100
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Kind of like the Lin offer sheet. Trying to structure it to make it more likely the team doesn't match.
Yea, 68m signing bonus on a 110m contract.

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