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[PHI] Shea Weber Signs Offer Sheet With Flyers, 14yrs/$100m+ (Part II)

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Old
07-19-2012, 02:07 AM
  #101
Flyerfan808
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This is either incredibly smart or incredibly stupid by Paul Holmgren and Ed Snyder.

My first instinct was Nashville matches, easy.

Now I'm not so certain after more of the details are surfacing. Can they afford 26M for one player on a single calendar year?

****'s about to get real interesting.

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07-19-2012, 02:07 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Wasn't erhoff's the same way?

14m, which is close to the max salary in a year. 12m signing bonus. Repeated two times..

Here's what I think would be close to the real terms

1 14m + 12m bonus
2 14m + 12m bonus
3 10m
4 8m
5 8m
6 8m
7 8m
8 8m
9 8m
10 6m
11 6m
12 4m
13 2m
14 2m

130m over 14 years

9.285m a year. Could Nashville match something like that if it's that high?
Can't see how an annual floor team can go 10-20mil above budget. Even if it were for a single season.

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07-19-2012, 02:07 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
Is your GM brave/dumb/crazy/smart to do this though? I'm thinking at most it's 120MM.

Even then you sign the extension and trade him next season, IMO. What's more important? 26MM handicap or good value on a franchise d man.
Holmgren basically has the green light on whatever by Snider who has no problem throwing money around like that

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07-19-2012, 02:07 AM
  #104
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When this is all said and done I hope the league changes the offer sheet rules in the next CBA. The rule heavily favours the rich teams and does not compensate the original rights holding club fairly. The disparity between both sides is not even close.

At the very least the rule should be amended with a cap on signing bonus and restrictions on front loading terms. A team should not be forced to pay nearly half of the cap max to one player in one season.

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07-19-2012, 02:07 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Yeah. After a year with $26 million already paid, there is not a team in the league that would not make an offer for 13 years of Weber at what would be $5.7 million per year out of the owner's pocket. Every team would be able to afford that, and the interest and bidding would be league wide. The return would be enormous if Nashville wanted to go that route.
This is kind of ridiculous. There will be many, many teams who wouldn't touch that contract with a 10 foot pole, $26million gone or not. Just because the lunatics in Minnesota, NYI, and Vancouver are handing these retirement deals out like candy doesn't mean the rest of the league enjoys it.

Just look at the Luongo fiasco. I would be willing to bet Gillis is learning a tough lesson right now and the rest of the league is watching.

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07-19-2012, 02:08 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Bort Sampson View Post
It's kinda easy to say that when it's not your money, huh?
hey if i didn't want to spend the dough i wouldn't own a sports franchise in the first place

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07-19-2012, 02:08 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Wasn't erhoff's the same way?

14m, which is close to the max salary in a year. 12m signing bonus. Repeated two times..

Here's what I think would be close to the real terms

1 14m + 12m bonus
2 14m + 12m bonus
3 10m
4 8m
5 8m
6 8m
7 8m
8 8m
9 8m
10 6m
11 6m
12 4m
13 2m
14 2m

130m over 14 years

9.285m a year. Could Nashville match something like that if it's that high?
Yup. They'd be screwed internally for 2 years but then would have Weber for the next 12...

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07-19-2012, 02:09 AM
  #108
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Holy ****. Please, Nashville!

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07-19-2012, 02:09 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdobbs View Post
There will probably always be teams that are looking for players whose cap hits exceed their salary.
True, but to take on a salary and cap hit like that, the team usually won't get very much of value in return.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdobbs View Post
I don't think Weber will be so horrible that no team will want him.
Probably, but these long long term deals are very risky. DiPietro's was an unmitigated disaster, and Johan Franzen is looking like he's going to become an injury-prone player sooner than later.

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07-19-2012, 02:09 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
If it was a bad deal, why would they have to pay 4 1sts to Nashville?
Well I would assume they would try again, otherwise they take the penalties and don't even get the player.

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07-19-2012, 02:09 AM
  #111
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If ends up with the Flyers, you think he'll slam Crosby's head into the boards?

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07-19-2012, 02:10 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Yeah. After a year with $26 million already paid, there is not a team in the league that would not make an offer for 13 years of Weber at what would be $5.7 million per year out of the owner's pocket. Every team would be able to afford that, and the interest and bidding would be league wide. The return would be enormous if Nashville wanted to go that route.
But Nashville isn't exactly the Yankees of hockey.

While they may be able to get a ridiculous return on Weber after that first year, look at the actual Cash cost to them...

26 million in the first year, then you assume they get some great players for him, but chances are those great players will have a more standard contract maybe a total of 9 mil a year, meaning the cash will be more evenly distributed. So in say three years they could be paying 44 million because of this offer sheet if they trade him.

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Old
07-19-2012, 02:10 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Wasn't erhoff's the same way?

14m, which is close to the max salary in a year. 12m signing bonus. Repeated two times..

Here's what I think would be close to the real terms

1 14m + 12m bonus
2 14m + 12m bonus
3 10m
4 8m
5 8m
6 8m
7 8m
8 8m
9 8m
10 6m
11 6m
12 4m
13 2m
14 2m

130m over 14 years

9.285m a year. Could Nashville match something like that if it's that high?
That's would not be a legal contract. Salary plus bonuses cannot exceed 20% of the cap in any contract year, or ~$14m.

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07-19-2012, 02:10 AM
  #114
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I believe people are REALLY oversimplifying things by assuming that Nashville matching is a foregone conclusion. If players/agents used offer sheets as leverage to get the home team to match, we would see a thousand of these things signed every offseason.

Holmgren is either convinced Nashville cannot match because of money, or will not match because they were planning on trading Weber anyway and four 1sts is a good return. It's ridiculous for people to think that Poile will just match and LOL. If this was such a foregone conclusion, why would Holmgren do this and open himself up to offer sheets on his own players?

Please be smart, HF. I know it's difficult, but there is a LOT going on here that people are just not seeing.

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07-19-2012, 02:10 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
This is kind of ridiculous. There will be many, many teams who wouldn't touch that contract with a 10 foot poll, $26million gone or not. Just because the lunatics in Minnesota, NYI, and Vancouver are handing these retirement deals out like candy doesn't mean the rest of the league enjoys it.

Just look at the Luongo fiasco. I would be willing to bet Gillis is learning a tough lesson right now and the rest of the league is watching.
Im not sure I call the Luongo situation a "fiasco". His ~5.5 cap hit is hardly absurd. The thing about the ever rising salary cap is that these 10+ year deals don't look as bad 5 or 6 years down the road since the salary cup is so much higher. Same goes for Weber here.

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07-19-2012, 02:11 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Wasn't erhoff's the same way?

14m, which is close to the max salary in a year. 12m signing bonus. Repeated two times..

Here's what I think would be close to the real terms

1 14m + 12m bonus
2 14m + 12m bonus
3 10m
4 8m
5 8m
6 8m
7 8m
8 8m
9 8m
10 6m
11 6m
12 4m
13 2m
14 2m

130m over 14 years

9.285m a year. Could Nashville match something like that if it's that high?
Nope.

Legality of this particular scenario aside, HF will say "Yes they must match and will match! match! match! match!" but that money has to come from somewhere and last I checked they don't have a bottomless pit of money like the Flyers, Penguins, Rangers, ect do.

I'm telling you people, it is gonna be really close whether their ownership allows Poile to match or not. It's one thing to offer Suter 12/90 when you have the potential of keeping the contending core together. It's another to pay even more when Suter is gone and as an owner you now have the realistic possibility of paying 1 man 26+ million in one year for an overall investment that will be 1st round fodder (when ownership knows that Poile is a great GM and has the wherewithal to lose Suter and Weber and still piece together an 8 seed in 2 years time because we have seen him do it before) and also maybe paying 26 million cash to a guy who may not even want to be there (pure speculation at this point)

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07-19-2012, 02:12 AM
  #117
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One of Darren Dreger's tweets said the Flyers didn't want to wait around because Nashville was looking at the trade offers for Weber and that the Flyers were apart of those trade talks. Now maybe they didn't want to take a chance at him being traded to another team, but wouldn't they have been better off making a better trade offer to make sure they actually get him? This way they don't give Nashville a chance to match and keep him.

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07-19-2012, 02:12 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mouser View Post
That's would not be a legal contract. Salary plus bonuses cannot exceed 20% of the cap in any contract year, or ~$14m.
Ehrhoff just made 18m this year with salary + bonus

Edit : bryz made 15m this year

Suter and parise will get 22m this year

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Old
07-19-2012, 02:13 AM
  #119
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Also unless I missed this in other thread ( I admit I just came on as that thread was ending)

Preds were looking to trade Weber's rights? If so I think that says they wont be matching

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07-19-2012, 02:14 AM
  #120
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These sort of contracts are starting to piss me off.

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07-19-2012, 02:14 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Ehrhoff just made 18m this year with salary + bonus
No, Ehrhoff made $10mil this year. $2m base NHL salary and $8m signing bonus.

You're double-counting his signing bonus.

edit: and Bryz made $10mil also. $5m base plus $5m signing bonus.

Parise and Suter will make $12m each in the 2012-2013 season.

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07-19-2012, 02:16 AM
  #122
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Poile often says not matching Stevens OS was the biggest mistake of his life. I don't think he's about to let that happen again when his JOB is on the line, he's going to do everything in his power to get this done, imo. Don't see it any other way..

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07-19-2012, 02:16 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Ehrhoff just made 18m this year with salary + bonus

Edit : bryz made 15m this year

Suter and parise will get 22m this year
They will make it in about 12 months, but over two seasons.

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07-19-2012, 02:16 AM
  #124
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Nope.

HF will say "Yes they must match and will match! match! match! match!" but that money has to come from somewhere and last I checked they don't have a bottomless pit of money like the Flyers, Penguins, Rangers, ect do.

I'm telling you people, it is gonna be really close whether their ownership allows Poile to match or not. It's one thing to offer Suter 12/90 when you have the potential of keeping the contending core together. It's another to pay even more when Suter is gone and as an owner you now have the realistic possibility of paying 1 man 26+ million in one year for an overall investment that will be 1st round fodder (when ownership knows that Poile is a great GM and has the wherewithal to lose Suter and Weber and still piece together an 8 seed in 2 years time because we have seen him do it before) and also maybe paying 26 million cash to a guy who may not even want to be there (pure speculation at this point)
You don't lose out a franchise Dman over 26MM. There's just no way you let him go for 4 1sts.

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07-19-2012, 02:16 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Does Weber want to stay in Nas?

No point in matching an offer if a player wants out
Yes there is and it's called smart asset management. And given the fact that he signed an offer sheet that can be easily matched suggests that he has no problem with playing in Nashville.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Also unless I missed this in other thread ( I admit I just came on as that thread was ending)

Preds were looking to trade Weber's rights? If so I think that says they wont be matching
They were exploring their options in case Weber didn't want to re-sign and because they can't afford another Suter situation on their hands.

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