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Free Agency 2012 Part #2

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Old
07-19-2012, 01:58 AM
  #726
Richie10
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There is so much going on here I don't even know where to begin.

From my understanding, Poile was working on a trade that would have sent Weber to the Flyers and Holmgren got impatient, hence the offer sheet. If this was as cut and dry as, "well, Poile will just match" then Homer wouldn't have done this. I know he's made some head scratching decisions but this is TOO out to lunch. There's more going on here. Either Holmgren is convinced the Predators CANNOT match, in the sense that they simply can't afford this magnitude of contract, or the Predators won't match because they were going to deal him regardless and four 1st round picks is a solid return.

Suter was the domino with Nashville. They knew this was coming. Weber only signing a one year deal was as telling as Parise signing a one year deal a year ago. Suter and Weber clearly were never planning on staying in Nashville for their entire careers. When Suter left for good, Weber was as good as gone. Crazy.

If Philly retains Weber holy **** they just got really, really good. Everyone around here loves to crap on that team but adding Weber is downright scary for everyone. Adding a top three defenseman in the league to an already decent blue line on top of the best offense in the league is INSANE. Everyone should be scared of the Flyers next year if they retain Weber, including us, because we'll likely have to go through them to repeat.

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07-19-2012, 02:01 AM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Hell, that's what we should do. In fantasy land, where Nashville, by some mircale, declines to match, we need to deal Bernier to get our 1st back and hopefully a prospect or another pick, then turn around and offer sheet Voracek Of course, Dean would never do that, especially to his beloved Flyers.
If the Preds don't match, the cap hit will be north of 8mill, meaning the Flyers need to shed salary, and Holmgrem doesnt have many friends outside of LA. I'm thinking Simmonds for a 2nd? yep yep please

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07-19-2012, 02:02 AM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
I think the Flyers messed up again. If I were a true Flyers fan, I would be calling for Homer's resignation. The Pronger contract, the Bryz contract, and now the Weber offer sheet? These people are literally some of the dumbest tacticians when it comes to contracts in the entire NHL. They are right up there with the Islanders.



Well yeah, I know it is a home run for him financially, and if I were in his position, I'd have done the same, but it also means that he could be an Islander for the rest of his life. He cashed in his chips now and the best offer will decide his fate.
That also assumes he doesn't want to stay in Nashville. As far as the Flyers contracts they have more money than sense that is for sure. But I don't see this as a bad contract other than they basically know they are not going to get the prize. Would we really have complained if last year instead of 7 years @7 mil we had managed to get DD for 14 years@7.5? Since that is probably close to what this will work out to. But even if it is 8 mil considering how much salaries are growing, even with the new CBA looming, I can't see in 5 or 6 years 8 mil seeming like a bargain for someone like Weber.

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07-19-2012, 02:04 AM
  #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
There is so much going on here I don't even know where to begin.

From my understanding, Poile was working on a trade that would have sent Weber to the Flyers and Holmgren got impatient, hence the offer sheet. If this was as cut and dry as, "well, Poile will just match" then Homer wouldn't have done this. I know he's made some head scratching decisions but this is TOO out to lunch. There's more going on here. Either Holmgren is convinced the Predators CANNOT match, in the sense that they simply can't afford this magnitude of contract, or the Predators won't match because they were going to deal him regardless and four 1st round picks is a solid return.

Suter was the domino with Nashville. They knew this was coming. Weber only signing a one year deal was as telling as Parise signing a one year deal a year ago. Suter and Weber clearly were never planning on staying in Nashville for their entire careers. When Suter left for good, Weber was as good as gone. Crazy.

If Philly retains Weber holy **** they just got really, really good. Everyone around here loves to crap on that team but adding Weber is downright scary for everyone. Adding a top three defenseman in the league to an already decent blue line on top of the best offense in the league is INSANE. Everyone should be scared of the Flyers next year if they retain Weber, including us, because we'll likely have to go through them to repeat.
Given his recent track record with contracts and understanding the rules surrounding them, I would wager that Homer and company are actually dumb enough to not account for Nashville matching. Not to mention, by matching the offer sheet, a player cannot be dealt for a whole year. So they essentially just postponed the bidding war for a year, except now they have to compete against more teams because he is a signed commodity rather than a rental. Just blows my mind.

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07-19-2012, 02:06 AM
  #730
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Originally Posted by sw1tch View Post
If the Preds don't match, the cap hit will be north of 8mill, meaning the Flyers need to shed salary, and Holmgrem doesnt have many friends outside of LA. I'm thinking Simmonds for a 2nd? yep yep please
No they won't since Pronger will be on LTIR and that moves his contract off. That is one of the loopholes I kind of expect to see closed within the new CBA but who knows,

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07-19-2012, 02:40 AM
  #731
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I think Nashville will match and trade Weber after next season. They can get more than 4 late 1sts in my opinion.

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07-19-2012, 02:41 AM
  #732
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Given his recent track record with contracts and understanding the rules surrounding them, I would wager that Homer and company are actually dumb enough to not account for Nashville matching. Not to mention, by matching the offer sheet, a player cannot be dealt for a whole year. So they essentially just postponed the bidding war for a year, except now they have to compete against more teams because he is a signed commodity rather than a rental. Just blows my mind.
Which is exactly why I don't believe "Homer has gone full retard" is an adequate explanation. Possible? Sure, anything's possible. But the shrewd structure of the contract (26 million in cash in the first year, hence making it difficult for an internal budget strapped Nashville to match) suggests otherwise. I really don't think Nashville will match this.

The Flyers are now up against the cap and will likely shed salary. Hell, what about the possibility of a Simmonds for Bernier deal at this point? What if Bryzgalov is the salary that Homer is planning on moving to make room for Weber? Unlikely, sure, but all bets are off at this point.

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07-19-2012, 02:45 AM
  #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
Which is exactly why I don't believe "Homer has gone full retard" is an adequate explanation. Possible? Sure, anything's possible. But the shrewd structure of the contract (26 million in cash in the first year, hence making it difficult for an internal budget strapped Nashville to match) suggests otherwise. I really don't think Nashville will match this.

The Flyers are now up against the cap and will likely shed salary. Hell, what about the possibility of a Simmonds for Bernier deal at this point? What if Bryzgalov is the salary that Homer is planning on moving to make room for Weber? Unlikely, sure, but all bets are off at this point.
They have the most capspace in the NHL and need to spend the most this offseason over any other team in the league. Not to mention he would become one of the most valuable commodities in the NHL after this upcoming season if it is frontloaded so heavily. I think there is great incentive for them to match. Overall, the deal is fair value, and if they keep him long term, it was what they were going to pay anyway. They wanted to sign their annual Norris candidate long term anyway, at a similar cap hit, now they got their wish, gift wrapped.

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07-19-2012, 02:59 AM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Moses Doughty View Post
I think Nashville will match and trade Weber after next season. They can get more than 4 late 1sts in my opinion.
I think they match but as has been pointed out in the signing thread I think they will have a hard time doing it next year. If the contract is structured like Parise and Suters then there will be a good size signing bonus in each of the first 3 years.
And because of the rules of singing someone who has signed an offer sheet you can't trade them for 1 year, which would be July 1 2013. He would have to be paid the initial signing bonus right now the second years on July 1 2013. So say it hits the max amount under the cap at 14 mil the first 2 years and is a 12/2. That would be Nashville paying out 26 mil to keep him for 1 year and then trade him allowing the team he goes to only paying 2 mil for that year.
But this is where things really get sticky. How do the signing bonuses exactly work on the cap if the player is traded after it is paid for that year?
So Nashville is stuck with him for 3 years unless they want to eat money even if it doesn't count against the cap. Paying a signing bonus and trading. but it must count against someone. And granted this is only a real problem if he doesn't want to stay. But if he doesn't then it is a big problem involving both money and the locker room.

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Old
07-19-2012, 03:03 AM
  #735
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Originally Posted by tsanuri View Post
I think they match but as has been pointed out in the signing thread I think they will have a hard time doing it next year. If the contract is structured like Parise and Suters then there will be a good size signing bonus in each of the first 3 years.
And because of the rules of singing someone who has signed an offer sheet you can't trade them for 1 year, which would be July 1 2013. He would have to be paid the initial signing bonus right now the second years on July 1 2013. So say it hits the max amount under the cap at 14 mil the first 2 years and is a 12/2. That would be Nashville paying out 26 mil to keep him for 1 year and then trade him allowing the team he goes to only paying 2 mil for that year.
But this is where things really get sticky. How do the signing bonuses exactly work on the cap if the player is traded after it is paid for that year?
So Nashville is stuck with him for 3 years unless they want to eat money even if it doesn't count against the cap. Paying a signing bonus and trading. but it must count against someone. And granted this is only a real problem if he doesn't want to stay. But if he doesn't then it is a big problem involving both money and the locker room.
Would the signing bonus be for sure on the next July 1st? That's a major issue. If it's past that, they can trade Weber before hand and avoid the bonus. Otherwise they just let him go. Holmgren might have done a great job in how he structured the contract, if all the details known are actually right.

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07-19-2012, 03:11 AM
  #736
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Originally Posted by sw1tch View Post
If the Preds don't match, the cap hit will be north of 8mill, meaning the Flyers need to shed salary, and Holmgrem doesnt have many friends outside of LA. I'm thinking Simmonds for a 2nd? yep yep please
Yes please

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07-19-2012, 03:19 AM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Moses Doughty View Post
Would the signing bonus be for sure on the next July 1st? That's a major issue. If it's past that, they can trade Weber before hand and avoid the bonus. Otherwise they just let him go. Holmgren might have done a great job in how he structured the contract, if all the details known are actually right.
Yes signing bonuses are payed on the first day of the new contract according to everything I have read, which is July 1 of every year.
That is from another big site that can't be linked.
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If you were curious as to what the starting price for Parise will be, former NHL player Nick Kypreos threw some interesting numbers in the mix on Sunday morning, namely a $24 million signing bonus, paid in two installments of $12 million each, one of which is due on the spot and the other due on July 1, 2013.

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07-19-2012, 03:37 AM
  #738
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Yes signing bonuses are payed on the first day of the new contract according to everything I have read, which is July 1 of every year.
That is from another big site that can't be linked.
Well, that really makes it tough on Nashville

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07-19-2012, 03:42 AM
  #739
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So who we getting from the Flyers when they have to trade one of their young guns when they need a raise? Since their logical destination is here at Flyers West.

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07-19-2012, 03:44 AM
  #740
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Well, that really makes it tough on Nashville
That I think is the understatement of the day.
But who knows this could be exactly what Poile wants. He might have had a hard time convincing the owners to pay Weber what he wanted. And this solves that since he now can go to them, do you want to pay him or lose him? And don't forget it we lose him after loosing Suter we are going to have many angry fans.

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07-19-2012, 04:32 AM
  #741
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Nashville goes from prince to pauper in a month?

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07-19-2012, 06:21 AM
  #742
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I think Nashville would be stupid to match, they can't afford two players at 7+. Or more than $6M if their is a roll back under the new CBA.

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07-19-2012, 06:41 AM
  #743
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Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
I think Nashville would be stupid to match, they can't afford two players at 7+. Or more than $6M if their is a roll back under the new CBA.
I think they'd be stupid not to match, as long as they're able and willing to pay whatever signing bonus is attached to the deal. Four first round picks, all likely near the end of the first round, aren't really that great of a return for a franchise player. They can always trade him next season for presumably a much better return in terms of roster players.

And if Philly ends up in cap troubles I don't think the Kings will be their first choice to trade with anymore. The Kings have stopped being the friendly neighbours, they're now competition

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07-19-2012, 07:25 AM
  #744
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I think they'd be stupid not to match, as long as they're able and willing to pay whatever signing bonus is attached to the deal. Four first round picks, all likely near the end of the first round, aren't really that great of a return for a franchise player. They can always trade him next season for presumably a much better return in terms of roster players.

And if Philly ends up in cap troubles I don't think the Kings will be their first choice to trade with anymore. The Kings have stopped being the friendly neighbours, they're now competition
So am I correct that he can only end up with one of these two teams now. So if Philly thought another team had submitted a good trade and Nashville were backing out of a trade they could do this

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07-19-2012, 07:40 AM
  #745
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So am I correct that he can only end up with one of these two teams now. So if Philly thought another team had submitted a good trade and Nashville were backing out of a trade they could do this
Correct. All they needed was Weber's signature. Now that he signed, Nashville can either let him go or match the offer and keep him for a minimum of one year.

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07-19-2012, 07:43 AM
  #746
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So am I correct that he can only end up with one of these two teams now. So if Philly thought another team had submitted a good trade and Nashville were backing out of a trade they could do this
That's correct,
The Predators are not allowed to trade him when he has signed an offersheet. They can match, or they can take compensation.

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07-19-2012, 07:45 AM
  #747
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Correct. All they needed was Weber's signature. Now that he signed, Nashville can either let him go or match the offer and keep him for a minimum of one year.
The offersheet could include a NMC/NTC. The Predators would also have to honor that, I believe.

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07-19-2012, 07:49 AM
  #748
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No they won't since Pronger will be on LTIR and that moves his contract off. That is one of the loopholes I kind of expect to see closed within the new CBA but who knows,
Since Pronge's contract was a 35+ plus I think (not positive though) that it counts towards the cap unless he retires, so LTIR doesn't hide the contract...

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07-19-2012, 07:50 AM
  #749
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I think Nashville would be stupid to match, they can't afford two players at 7+. Or more than $6M if their is a roll back under the new CBA.
Depends what kind of budget they are on. Seems like they became willing to spend to the cap last season. Our Kings are doing quite fine with Kopi, Doughty, Carter, Richards, Quick as 5 pretty big contracts. Depends on the rest of their salary structure.

The bigger problem for Nashville is probably if, as reported, the Offer Sheet is heavily front loaded and includes those massive Signing bonii due within the first year. Especially if they have to pay that high price to have a less than happy player on their hands.

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07-19-2012, 07:51 AM
  #750
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The offersheet could include a NMC/NTC. The Predators would also have to honor that, I believe.
Not sure, someone on the trade boards said that trade clauses don't carry over in this situation. I can't vouch for the validity of that one comment but I'd believe it. I'm sure some CBA guru can tell us

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