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Kings Re-Sign Hickey, Muzzin, Legein, Meckler

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Old
07-18-2012, 03:55 PM
  #51
The Black1963
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
If Hickey were ready, he wouldn't have been passed up by Voynov, Martinez, and arguable DD44
Hickey was ready.

It just happens that so was Voynov. A better fit, as he was a right hand shot replacing Doughty who also is a rhs.

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07-18-2012, 04:13 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black1963 View Post
Hickey was ready.

It just happens that so was Voynov. A better fit, as he was a right hand shot replacing Doughty who also is a rhs.
Replacing Doughty? what for? I'm pretty sure Voynov was called up to replace Johnson in the top 4 not Drew.

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07-18-2012, 04:44 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by FrozenKing18 View Post
Replacing Doughty? what for? I'm pretty sure Voynov was called up to replace Johnson in the top 4 not Drew.
I was referring to the beginning of the season when Doughty was a holdout.

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07-18-2012, 04:45 PM
  #54
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Still no mention of Alzer huh.

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07-18-2012, 04:52 PM
  #55
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I expect the battle to be between Hickey and Voynov. Martinez has proven he is an NHL caliber defenseman, and a consistent one at that.


Let's not forget that sophomore slumps do exist, and Voynov didn't look very good in the playoffs. The insurance policy of an ever growing Hickey is a good one to have for certain. In a pinch he can replace Voynov if he struggles

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07-18-2012, 06:23 PM
  #56
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In training camp last year, Hickey was very close to Voynov, I thought they were neck and neck. As good as Voynov played, he can't afford to let down.

Of course, I thought they both looked better than Martinez, so what do I know?

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07-18-2012, 06:46 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Perro View Post
Still no mention of Alzer huh.
If the Kings had taken Alzner instead of Hickey, they would have won the cup three times last season.


Last edited by Gentle Ben Kenobi: 07-18-2012 at 07:36 PM.
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07-18-2012, 06:51 PM
  #58
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Cap Hits from capgeek.com:

Hickey, Thomas » $700,000
Muzzin, Jake » $577,500
Meckler, David » $635,250
Legein, Stefan » $715,000

All are 2-way deals so they will make less in the AHL.

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07-18-2012, 06:57 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Perro View Post
Still no mention of Alzer huh.
Alzner isn't that good. There is your mention.

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07-19-2012, 04:08 AM
  #60
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How does Legein earn more than Hickey?

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07-19-2012, 06:25 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by drugold View Post
How does Legein earn more than Hickey?
Actually, they earn the same in terms of AHL salary. Muzzin gets slightly more. Meckler less.

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07-19-2012, 09:35 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Hickey would have to do what Voynov did this past season in proving to the organization that he is ready to be a top six defenseman in the NHL. Voynov allowed the Kings the luxury to move Jack Johnson in order to upgrade their offense. The Kings are fortunate now that they don't have any holes to fill, so they don't have to force Hickey into a position he may not yet be ready for and they don't have any immediate needs to address.

Martinez has been a regular with the Kings for the past two years, he'll be turning 25 later this month, and he was once considered to be one of the team's top prospects on defense. He's an unheralded player who doesn't receive enough credit for his all around play. He's just so composed out there that you hardly notice him, he doesn't make mistakes and he's quick in moving the puck out of his own end. Until Hickey proves he can do all of that, there is no need or sense in discussing a transaction involving Martinez.
Essentially, that's what I'm referring too. If Hickey comes into camp and plays well enough to be considered equal to Martinez and Kings management wants to give Hickey playing time instead of having him sit as a 7th D-man or go through waivers (which is basically giving him away) then they could trade Martinez. Hickey's on ice value may be the same, but trade value is likely tilted heavily towards Martinez, so deal him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadInjury View Post
Why not keep both and trade Drewiske? He's a UFA after next season. Do you think there is any possibility Drewiske will re-sign? Let Hickey and Martinez battle it out over the course of a season. There's no rush to make a choice. I think we can get at least a 6th rounder for Drewiske. If we waive him, I think he'll be claimed.
This is my preferred choice, as I believe DS would find a way to rotate in 7-D if they were all top six caliber. TM did not.

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Originally Posted by tsanuri View Post
No it just means he would have to be sent down 13 days before the first regular season game. Since waivers go into effect 12 days before.
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/20...ide-to-the-nhl

"The first day of the season which players are subject to waivers is twelve days prior to the start of the regular season, until the last day after the end of the team's season. It should be noted that the league resets all waiver transactions at the beginning of the next season's waiver period. So say that a player was waived and cleared waivers in the previous season, and was not re-called at any point for the remainder of the season. In the current season, that player rejoins the NHL roster and he must clear waivers again to be assigned to an AHL team."

Essentially, all players must clear again starting at that 12-day mark, even if they were assigned down to the AHL prior to that. It's a means to prevent a loophole, or you'd see teams with a lot of good young players (like us) sending a lot of guys down before that 12-day mark. Hickey would have to clear waivers, regardless of when you sent him down.

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07-20-2012, 10:58 PM
  #63
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From Mayors Manor

Quote:
We’ll close out with a favorite among MayorsManor readers, a quick game of word association…
Brandon Kozun – little
Martin Jones – big
Jake Muzzin – skilled
Dwight King – tough
Jordan Nolan – really tough
Slava Voynov – flashy
Stefan Legein – top cheese
Robbie Czarnik – hard worker
Thomas Hickey – head fakes
Andrei Loktionov – hands
Andy Andreoff – gritty
Rich Clune – beauty

http://mayorsmanor.com/2012/07/ray-k...d-association/
Jack Johnson? lol

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07-22-2012, 03:15 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Rusty Batch View Post
But at what point does it undervalue or drive away our young prospects?

I trust in our management and feel that we have done a phenomenal job of building a team (obvious). I just hope we are propely identifying the prospects that we want and creatng potential openings for them.

For example Loti seems to have zero future in ths organization. (I'm really high on him and thought a bit of bad luck, timing (Murray), and personnel (Rchardson and Lwis)) really killed his debut. And now he seems to have zero chance at ever getting a reasonable chance on his team. Meanwhile Stoll gets extended for 3 more years who was put in a much better position to succeed was probably worse in the regular season. And was able to string together half dcent postseason run.

Those are the type of moves that irk me a bit.
When we're advancing past the second round of the playoffs again with ease, our team full of vets crushing the "best" of the West, I have a feeling any annoyance you may feel will be washed away.

Cup, baby. We're not a farm anymore, we're a mint that specializes in fine silver.

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07-22-2012, 03:20 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by FrozenKing18 View Post
Replacing Doughty? what for? I'm pretty sure Voynov was called up to replace Johnson in the top 4 not Drew.
The truth just has a certain ring to it, no? Johnson replaced Doughty. Voynov replaced Johnson. The fact that they had Voynov and not Martinez replace JJ just shows VV's progress to the coaching staff.

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07-22-2012, 06:58 PM
  #66
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The same success that causes us to have fewer slots for our kids to matriculate into is also the same thing that makes them want to remain a King. I have to admit that I thought that re-signing Stoll was a mistake from an org standpoint for this very reason, it is frustrating to developing players who are ready to make their mark in the NHL to have to wait for a slot to open up for them and as such we will see a few of them leave us along the way.

That said we just won the cup, every kid in the org wants to win the cup. We have proven that we can win the cup and in doing so that we are in our window of op with our current roster so in order for one of them to get their shot at the big club they have to beat out what we have or wait their turn, or even possibly both.

Toffi will be ready for the NHL soon and if things work out right Williams will become a UFA right around the time he is. Andy A is NHL ready along with a few of our other forwards but who would he replace? King? Nolan? Clifford? or one of our top 6 forwards? Not likely or at least not yet.

The point is that while I agree that Muzzin has been NHL ready and that Hickey is as well to name two that we are at a point where these young players have to ask themselves the same hard questions that other highly successful teams kids have to ask and that is do I want a shot at winning a cup with my current excellent team or am I willing to gamble to get a shot to play with any NHL team.

Some will go and some will stay.

The thing to remember or maybe understand is that the reason that successful teams are able to hang onto their talented kids and develop them more slowly without having them bolt is the amount of effort those teams put into developing and maintaining these kids.

What happens when a kid is on the farm depends partly on their development/skills but also on how much time money and effort their parent team is willing to invest in them.

Some kids get allot of attention and others not so much. Some make it some get dealt or bolt but in the end it is up to their parent teams as to what the outcome is most of the time.

We are so ridiculously overloaded with NHL talented character 3/4 liners up front and skilled/tuff/smart blueliners down on the farm that even if we see one or two decide to move along on their own or get dealt we will still be crazy deep for the next few years.


No surprises on our signings. Meckler maybe a little but he is so good for the Monarchs that I can see it.

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07-22-2012, 07:39 PM
  #67
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As always Tonellisghost brings the voice of reason. Blocking kids with talent is a good thing in that it forces them to be better established NHLers to make the squad.

Nobody here wants to go back to the days of Aulin, Zizka, and Giulliano.

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07-22-2012, 08:31 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Chruceg View Post
As always Tonellisghost brings the voice of reason. Blocking kids with talent is a good thing in that it forces them to be better established NHLers to make the squad.

Nobody here wants to go back to the days of Aulin, Zizka, and Giulliano.
Not sure thats exactly what he said...
Quote:
I have to admit that I thought that re-signing Stoll was a mistake from an org standpoint for this very reason, it is frustrating to developing players who are ready to make their mark in the NHL to have to wait for a slot to open up for them and as such we will see a few of them leave us along the way.
Sounds like he kind of agrees with me.

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07-22-2012, 08:40 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
When we're advancing past the second round of the playoffs again with ease, our team full of vets crushing the "best" of the West, I have a feeling any annoyance you may feel will be washed away.

Cup, baby. We're not a farm anymore, we're a mint that specializes in fine silver.
Yeah I love the way this team has been built and have agreed with virtually everything Lombardi has done since he got here. I also had faith that we could win a cup. We are elite and I lOve it.

I also want to see this team continue to get better and to be able to re-sign our key players. I think part of being able to keep a deep and star filled squad means that you routineley swap your high-priced "mediocre" vets with cheap young developed talent.

To me Stoll is the type of guy you let go in favor of a cheap and developed young player (lokti, Lewis, Andy A, etc...) Especially when you have Richards as a safety net for 3rd line Center if one of your young players dont work out.

Really the stoll signing was the first time i disagreed with the direction our team was going in the last few years.

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07-22-2012, 09:17 PM
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@Rusty Batch

Speaking only for myself here ... I still think it's a good thing to have established NHLers in the way. No coach is going to play a worse player at a position JUST because he's established (side note: this is why Terry Murray isn't coaching the Kings anymore). You play the best players. By keeping talented players, youth is forced to perform at a higher level.

This is a good thing.

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07-22-2012, 10:22 PM
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If any of these kids are truly ready, the Kings would make the room to fit them in. They did so when Quick was ready to step in. They did it for Doughty, for Simmonds, for Clifford, for Voynov, etc. There's no reason for them to shove someone into a position they aren't ready for and they aren't going to hold back any young player if they could outperform veterans. We saw that happen with the Kings going with Dwight King and Jordan Nolan to replace Ethan Moreau and Trent Hunter.

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07-22-2012, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
If any of these kids are truly ready, the Kings would make the room to fit them in. They did so when Quick was ready to step in. They did it for Doughty, for Simmonds, for Clifford, for Voynov, etc. There's no reason for them to shove someone into a position they aren't ready for and they aren't going to hold back any young player if they could outperform veterans. We saw that happen with the Kings going with Dwight King and Jordan Nolan to replace Ethan Moreau and Trent Hunter.
I don't agree on this with you Ziggy.

To start with in JQ's case we had a very specific need and he filled it. JQ was our best alternative at the time and he turned out to be what allot of us thought he would be and more in some cases but we were desperate for a starter and he answered the call. Room wasn't made for him due to him being ready as much as we needed him to be ready and he stepped in (more complicated than that but that is the jist).

Doughty was ready at his draft and we didn't make room for him either.

We did make room for VV but only due to the fact that we had a need and addressed it by doing so and that action made room for him. JJ wasn't dealt to make room for VV alone is my point.

I am always the biggest proponent for bringing up kids when they are ready and am typically right in my assessments of their abilities and level of preparedness for the NHL but King and Nolan filled spots that were open more than people being moved to make room for them to come up.


Muzzin is NHL ready. He has been for two seasons now. Everyone in the org who has talked about him agrees. Sometimes it isn't so easy to make room for some kids to step up.

Would you have dealt away Scuderi to make room for Muzzin at the start of last year? I wouldn't have though I might have considered it this year partly due to the fact that Muzzin is ready and partly due to the fact that Scuderi is on the last year of his contract. Not saying it would be a good idea, just saying that there are circumstances where I would consider the move.

Even then, Muzz is ready but so is Hickey and short of making wholesale changes to our back-end we won't be seeing them replacing anyone this season.

My point is that when we had need and placeholders on our team (like Hunter etc) then it was allot easier to make room for our ready kids.

Now that we have solid vets or established kids already filling each position it isn't so easy to make room for the kids who are ready and waiting in the wings.

Our team has changed and is now in position to become a powerhouse for the next few years at least.
We have kids who are NHL ready that will have to wait their turn and that is one of the key indicators of a top notch franchise to me.

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07-22-2012, 11:00 PM
  #73
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Even then, Muzz is ready but so is Hickey and short of making wholesale changes to our back-end we won't be seeing them replacing anyone this season.
Don't forget Drewiske. 44DD is a better player than a healthy scratch. Only on the Stanley Cup winning Los Angeles Kings, is 44DD a healthy scratch.

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07-22-2012, 11:04 PM
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Don't forget Drewiske. 44DD is a better player than a healthy scratch. Only on the Stanley Cup winning Los Angeles Kings, is 44DD a healthy scratch.
Thanks yep, your right.

I have been a proponent of dealing away 44DD simply because we haven't any space to play the guy. He would be an everyday 4/6 guy on all but maybe 3 or 4 teams in the league. He plays solid smart hockey and is a role model for playing through adversity and injury to make your way to the NHL.

We keep him because when he is called on he is so solid.

Can't believe I forgot about him, thanks for reminding me.

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07-22-2012, 11:06 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I don't agree on this with you Ziggy.

To start with in JQ's case we had a very specific need and he filled it. JQ was our best alternative at the time and he turned out to be what allot of us thought he would be and more in some cases but we were desperate for a starter and he answered the call. Room wasn't made for him due to him being ready as much as we needed him to be ready and he stepped in (more complicated than that but that is the jist).

Doughty was ready at his draft and we didn't make room for him either.

We did make room for VV but only due to the fact that we had a need and addressed it by doing so and that action made room for him. JJ wasn't dealt to make room for VV alone is my point.

I am always the biggest proponent for bringing up kids when they are ready and am typically right in my assessments of their abilities and level of preparedness for the NHL but King and Nolan filled spots that were open more than people being moved to make room for them to come up.


Muzzin is NHL ready. He has been for two seasons now. Everyone in the org who has talked about him agrees. Sometimes it isn't so easy to make room for some kids to step up.

Would you have dealt away Scuderi to make room for Muzzin at the start of last year? I wouldn't have though I might have considered it this year partly due to the fact that Muzzin is ready and partly due to the fact that Scuderi is on the last year of his contract. Not saying it would be a good idea, just saying that there are circumstances where I would consider the move.

Even then, Muzz is ready but so is Hickey and short of making wholesale changes to our back-end we won't be seeing them replacing anyone this season.

My point is that when we had need and placeholders on our team (like Hunter etc) then it was allot easier to make room for our ready kids.

Now that we have solid vets or established kids already filling each position it isn't so easy to make room for the kids who are ready and waiting in the wings.

Our team has changed and is now in position to become a powerhouse for the next few years at least.
We have kids who are NHL ready that will have to wait their turn and that is one of the key indicators of a top notch franchise to me.
The Kings actually did make room for Doughty when they dealt Lubomir Visnovsky to Edmonton.

I also disagree that Quick was the best alternative at the time because everyone was clamoring for Jonathan Bernier, the next successor in net, to come riding on a white horse to save the Kings. After Quick established himself as the starter, the Kings got rid of LaBarbera and brought up Erik Ersberg to be Quick's backup. Quick was not the obvious choice then as many were thinking it would be Bernier (remember Bernier was disgruntled and unhappy that he wasn't called up).

I wouldn't have traded Scuderi at the start of last year to make room for Muzzin nor would I do it now. We don't know if he's another Joe Rullier or Aaron Rome. I'm just not as sold on Muzzin as you are. What Scuderi does is greatly unappreciated here and I can't see Muzzin replacing his calming presence and leadership. Scuderi is the modern day Mattias Norstrom that the Kings need to play with Doughty. I don't see Muzzin being that player.

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