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Weber Signs OS w/ Philly (14 yrs, $110 mil - $7.85 mil cap hit) Mod Warning Post 364

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Old
07-19-2012, 05:59 AM
  #201
smitty10
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What a terrible turn of events for Nashville. Hopefully the market can stand to lose Weber and Suter and still continue to grow and be successful. Already lost Radulov and possibly Kostitsyn too, this is really going to deplete the current Preds roster if Shea goes.

However, if they get the 4 first rounders, this would give them a lot of leverage in future trades and hopefully allow the Preds to pick up some top assets.

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07-19-2012, 06:03 AM
  #202
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Man.... So much drama in this thread. Then again, I have experience with losing Heatley...Losing Savard...losing Hossa and losing Kovalchuk...

Don't read too much into anything. As has been said previously, Weber's simply trying to get paid under the current CBA. Looks like terms like 14 years won't be possible under the new agreement So S Dub's gotta get paid while he can. If Shea REALLY wanted out, he would have either signed a 1 year deal and finished out his RFA status, or he would have found someone to give an offer sheet NSV could have never matched.

Even if we lose Shea, we still get 4 first round picks. This isn't as bad as it looks.

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07-19-2012, 06:09 AM
  #203
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As for calling Poile to ask him to match before signing the offer sheet, I can see a couple of problems with that:

1) Poile could trade him before he even gets a chance to sign it. If one of your main reasons for pursuing an offer sheet is to prevent the team from trading you, you won't want to give them a heads-up. You might argue back that you'd then give them a time limit that's too short to pull off a trade, but if it's too short to pull off a trade, then it's also too short to make a proper decision on a big contract (and, conversely, enough time to make such a proper decision is enough time to complete a trade).

2) Poile may want to see it in writing before matching. What if Weber makes up the offer sheet or the Flyers say that they're willing to offer one when they really aren't? Getting it in writing holds the Flyers accountable and ensures that Poile isn't signing a contract for more than he needs to. It may even be that Weber did give Poile a heads-up before signing and Poile reluctantly had to tell him that, on principle, he needed to see the signed offer sheet before agreeing to match it. We can't say conclusively just yet that Weber (or, really, his agent) didn't call Poile first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Everyone needs to understand that offer sheets mean the player WANTS to stay, but we're having trouble agreeing on a dollar amount.
Right... offer sheets are like an extreme form of arbitration, except that you're letting another team determine your worth, rather than an arbitrator.

It also cannot be re-iterated enough that Joe Sakic, of all players, signed an offer sheet with the Rangers. Did that "prove" that he didn't want to be an Av? Of course it didn't. He was the epitome of a team player. It was just business.

Another player that signed an offer sheet was Dustin Penner, and just a month after winning the Cup. Does anyone seriously think that he 1) wanted off of a championship team (in sunny SoCal, no less), and 2) wanted to play in Edmonton? The poor guy probably expected Anaheim to match and was surprised and disappointed when they didn't.


Last edited by Osprey: 07-19-2012 at 06:26 AM.
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07-19-2012, 06:18 AM
  #204
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If Weber truly wanted out of Nashville he wouldn't have signed an offer sheet which has a great chance of being matched.

Plus he now has now has zero no trade protection and can be traded after 1 year anywhereincluidng Edmonton, for example.

Weber is all about gettiung the most money.

IMO Nashville will match. They may or may not eventually trade him, but that will be their choice.

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07-19-2012, 06:21 AM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Eklund is right on the money here.

Everyone needs to understand that offer sheets mean the player WANTS to stay, but we're having trouble agreeing on a dollar amount.
I would agree with this if this was just a typical offer sheet scenario. But the fact that we were actively trying to trade Weber as it happened changes the dynamic IMO. It doesn't sound like Poile was just "doing his homework" or whatever...it sounds like he was actively attempting to trade Weber, which he would only do if Weber didn't want to stay. That's the part that really bothers me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
If his priority was leaving, he could have signed those one-year deals (each year, and there is nothing Poile could have done to prevent it. A RFA player can always sign his QO).

What he did shows his priority is getting paid, not necessarily calling his shot.

This demonstrates he was determined to get paid now, before a more restricted CBA is in effect, and that he's OK with staying in Nashville for the rest of his career.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I guess I see your point of view, but I don't see it as likely. If Weber wanted out of Nashville there are other, better ways of doing it. He wouldn't have signed the offer sheet if he wasn't OK with staying in Nashville. That is what offer sheets are, by definition.

Always seems like you and a few others always think negatively about every situation It's hard to tell when you are being serious
My question is, if you're Weber and you want a super long-term, front loaded contract (which you have to sign this summer before such contracts become unavailable) and you don't really want to play for Nashville, what would you do? Probably demand a trade (which he may have done considering Poile was shopping him), or sign an offer sheet with a team you like hoping the Preds don't match. And if they do, you can just demand a trade a year from now.

To me all this offer sheet means is that Weber wants to get his big contract now, and if he has to play a year in Nashville to do it then so be it. He wasn't going to leave tens of millions on the table by signing a one-year deal and then being subject to whatever constraints the new CBA puts on contracts (or God forbid they end up extending the UFA age).

The fact that we were going to trade him before this does not make me feel good.

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07-19-2012, 06:26 AM
  #206
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What's the offer from Philly?? Years/amount??

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07-19-2012, 06:26 AM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
That's the point! We offered Weber a contract like this, and he signed Philly's instead of ours!
The Philly offer sheet was obviously bigger. He knows the Preds can match. Why wouldn't he take the bigger deal? He put it in Poile's hands. This is good news for us.

If he signed a 1 year offer sheet it would be a disaster.

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07-19-2012, 06:29 AM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
A few of you are saying that this proves that Weber doesn't want to be a Pred. No, it proves almost the opposite. If he weren't more than happy to spend the rest of his career as a Pred, would he have signed an offer sheet that Poile could easily match? Of course he wouldn't have. We knew this before. We knew that he wouldn't sign an offer sheet if he wanted to leave.

Consider what I think is going on:
Shea wants to sign a long-term deal with Preds
Preds make offer, but it isn't quite the amount, term or structure that Shea wants
Preds, either for leverage or seriously, start to shop Shea
Shea fears that he'll be traded (and without him having any say as to where)
Shea's #1 choice is Preds and #2 choice is Flyers
Shea signs the deal that he wants with the Flyers
If Preds match, Shea gets the deal with them that he wanted all along
If Preds don't match, Shea at least goes to his #2 choice

If I'm right, then all that this is is Weber using leverage to get the deal with the Preds that Poile has been reluctant to offer. It's a little heavy-handed and risky, but Weber is on the clock here. He wants a long-term deal before the current CBA runs out in less than two months and he also doesn't want Poile to trade him simply because he's not accepting their current offer. Beyond just being shipped away from his preferred team, he could be traded to a team that he doesn't care for, and he'd be forced to play for that team for a year before finally getting his choice. By signing an offer sheet, he gets to choose where to play if it's not with the Preds. The bottom line, IMO, is that he's saying that he'd be more than happy to spend the rest of his career with the Preds, but wants his terms and, if they happen to be unacceptable, wants to at least choose where he goes.
Bingo

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07-19-2012, 06:29 AM
  #209
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The negotiations coming is going to be screwed bc of gm's like holmgren, minny's gm, every other gm's who were going to give suter, parise 10 plus year deals and potentially now poile.

The league has a proposal out right now that is against what holmgren is doing. The players will laugh at the offer and state why teams are willingly offering 10 year deals if they only want to sign guys for 5. I mean its happening literally while the league offer is in place.

What do these teams have to say about this then?

Anyhow for you guys, you better match this offer. Weber can kick and cry he wants to be traded, than thats fine. For a guy at his peak, signed for a very long time, you will be able to recoup alot more than 4, 1st round picks. Only way you become royally screwed is, if he sustains a serious injury , between now and the time he gets traded.

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07-19-2012, 06:29 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
Suck to be you guys, interesting conundrum, Poile isn't really a good drafter so you guys must match.
What in the world are you talking about?

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07-19-2012, 06:33 AM
  #211
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Poile has to match this, or he should be fired!!!

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07-19-2012, 06:42 AM
  #212
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We don't know the structure, we don't know what clauses may possibly kick in after the upcoming season, we don't know the cap hit to determine the return if the owners and Poile don't match ... all we do know is that Weber used the offer sheet route to set his market value.

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07-19-2012, 06:44 AM
  #213
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I can't imagine if the Flyers wanted Weber they would be dumb enough to sign him to an offer sheet unless:

A.) The Preds were seriously considering trading him to a competitor and the Flyers simply did this to block that for a couple years; OR

B.) The Flyers already have a deal worked out with Nashville and were hesitant to pull the trigger because they weren't 100% certain Weber would re-sign with them. Now that he has, this opens the door for Philly to move pieces that they might not have for a 1yr player.

I find it less plausible, though possible that Nashville and Weber couldn't agree on a long-term deal and this is just Paul Holmgren doing Poile a favor by getting Weber to sign long-term in a structure that the player wanted.

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07-19-2012, 06:45 AM
  #214
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Wow - such drama! We know Poile and Weber have talked about all this, including Suter and long-term and all. Weber knows Poile can't lose him from nothing. This keeps the Preds outta' the Suter situation. Structure may stink from Preds standpoint, but money is comparable to what other FA are getting. Just doesn't seem that big a deal; Weber got a contract he likes, he knows the Preds can match so if he didn't wanna' be here, he wouldn't give them a choice (i.e., he signs a 1yr deal).

I don't, however, think it's a no-brainer for Poile. I love Webs and what he brings, but insured contract or not, if that's a front-loaded deal like Suter's it's gonna' put a squeeze on Preds. Looking at a trade instead - for ex., to Philly for Cooter + - might make more sense for us. Likewise, Edm - with all those kids. (I'm assuming we still can trade his rights and someone else then can match?) Otherwise - duh, Poile signs him and we move on finding a F.

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07-19-2012, 06:47 AM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
Poile has to match this, or he should be fired!!!
The owners get a vote in that decision. Where I see the only potential for us not matching is a ridiculously sized signing bonus. Parise and Suter received $30mil over the first three years ... if this is bigger up front than those offers, it could prove to be a substantial hurdle.

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07-19-2012, 06:49 AM
  #216
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Is she weber really the type of guy that will get you big time free agents to come? If Nashville doesn't match they could receive 4 1st round picks as compensation. 8 first round picks in the next 4 seasons can go a long way in rebuilding your franchise. Polie could do the same thing Bryan Murray did with the Sens and trade off some veteran assets and acquire more picks and be in a great position to field a competitive team right away.

Edit: just saw that the compensation would be a 1st, 2nd, and a 3rd rounder.
Ouch. you have to match.


Last edited by Stylizer1: 07-19-2012 at 07:02 AM.
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07-19-2012, 06:50 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
There is no doubt in my mind the $26 mil is on year one. I could see ownership saying "So you want us to pay $24mil for a player who just signed a contract with another team and you're going to trade in a year when you can get 4 first rounders for him? yeah right!"

I hope they dont, but you never know.
Counter-argument.

"You're **** right we do. Because if you take that $26M hit now, while the fans are showing up in the wake of that playoff run, then we get a golden deal for the entire rest of a 14 year contract. You pay that 26 million now, and every year thereafter you're paying $5M real salary or less for $7M worth of player for the entire rest of his contract. After you get past year one this deal helps our ability to win in Nashville for 13 years by allowing us to stack up more talent under the internal salary cap. It would be a dream deal for the Nashville Predators"

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07-19-2012, 07:01 AM
  #218
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This is a great thing.

I can't believe the whining in this thread.

If Weber really wanted to go to another team, he would have forced a trade, not signing an offer sheet that he knows Poile will match (because he said he would).

Weber went out and got the offer he wanted. He probably really didn't care if it was in Nashville or not.

Now, we lock him up, have Rinne locked up.

We're good. WooHoo!




That said, if Poile doesn't match.........then we're not truly committed to being a competitive team.

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07-19-2012, 07:03 AM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
Counter-argument.

"You're **** right we do. Because if you take that $26M hit now, while the fans are showing up in the wake of that playoff run, then we get a golden deal for the entire rest of a 14 year contract. You pay that 26 million now, and every year thereafter you're paying $5M real salary or less for $7M worth of player for the entire rest of his contract. After you get past year one this deal helps our ability to win in Nashville for 13 years by allowing us to stack up more talent under the internal salary cap. It would be a dream deal for the Nashville Predators"
Duuude you just blew my mind... But the first 3-5 years may be heavily front loaded as well.

He has to ****ing match. Hes the best Dman in the WORLD!

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07-19-2012, 07:10 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by AEM6729 View Post
I would agree with this if this was just a typical offer sheet scenario. But the fact that we were actively trying to trade Weber as it happened changes the dynamic IMO. It doesn't sound like Poile was just "doing his homework" or whatever...it sounds like he was actively attempting to trade Weber, which he would only do if Weber didn't want to stay. That's the part that really bothers me.
We really have no idea what Poile was doing exactly. He easily may've been entertaining trade offers just for leverage, in order to persuade Weber to accept the Preds' current offer. He may also have just been "fishing" to see what he could get for Weber, without ever really having any intention of trading him.

Also, I disagree with the notion that Poile would shop Weber only if Weber didn't want to stay. That's like concluding that Weber's turning down of the existing Preds offer means that he doesn't want to stay. There's more to it than that. Weber wanting to stay is kind of irrelevant to Poile if they can't agree on a contract. Refusing to give a hometown discount and holding out for top money doesn't necessarily mean that you want out. It just means that you may want to have your cake and eat it, too... to stay and get paid top dollar, without having to sacrifice one or the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AEM6729
My question is, if you're Weber and you want a super long-term, front loaded contract (which you have to sign this summer before such contracts become unavailable) and you don't really want to play for Nashville, what would you do? Probably demand a trade (which he may have done considering Poile was shopping him), or sign an offer sheet with a team you like hoping the Preds don't match. And if they do, you can just demand a trade a year from now.
Why would he sign an offer sheet if he wanted to leave Nashville, though? That's the dumbest thing to do, since he could be stuck playing for 14 years in a city that he wants out of it. It makes no sense. Also, if he were really being shopped, something that you suggest that he may've wanted, why would he interfere with that by signing an offer sheet? Now, he can't be traded and all signs point to the Preds matching and keeping him in Nashville for 14 years. If he wanted to leave, then he just did about the dumbest thing imaginable.

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07-19-2012, 07:13 AM
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey View Post

Why would he sign an offer sheet if he wanted to leave Nashville, though? That's the dumbest thing to do, since he could be stuck playing for 14 years in a city that he wants out of it. It makes no sense. Also, if he were really being shopped, something that you suggest that he may've wanted, why would he interfere with that by signing an offer sheet? Now, he can't be traded and all signs point to the Preds matching and keeping him in Nashville for 14 years. If he wanted to leave, then he just did about the dumbest thing imaginable.
Agreed with this.

There's no way he wanted out at all costs. If that's what he wanted, he simply took the worse possible route.

IMHO, he just wanted a gigantor contract, probably was skeptical about Poile putting it on the table unless forced, so his agent went out and found him one.

If Shea isn't a Pred next year, then David Poile needs to be gone also.

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07-19-2012, 07:18 AM
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
A few of you are saying that this proves that Weber doesn't want to be a Pred. No, it proves almost the opposite. If he weren't more than happy to spend the rest of his career as a Pred, would he have signed an offer sheet that Poile could easily match? Of course he wouldn't have. We knew this before. We knew that he wouldn't sign an offer sheet if he wanted to leave.

Consider what I think is going on:
Shea wants to sign a long-term deal with Preds
Preds make offer, but it isn't quite the amount, term or structure that Shea wants
Preds, either for leverage or seriously, start to shop Shea
Shea fears that he'll be traded (and without him having any say as to where)
Shea's #1 choice is Preds and #2 choice is Flyers
Shea signs the deal that he wants with the Flyers
If Preds match, Shea gets the deal with them that he wanted all along
If Preds don't match, Shea at least goes to his #2 choice
Hahaha exactly, I feel like one of the few people who woke up this morning, saw the news, and was hopping around with excitement. If Poile doesn't match this, then it is clear he was replaced by an android with faulty wiring years ago.

Matching it would be one of the greatest days in Preds history in my opinion, it would also be one of the saddest days for VAN/PHI/etc haha.

EDIT: It's also my birthday today; match today Poile for me!

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07-19-2012, 07:18 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post

If Shea isn't a Pred next year, then David Poile needs to be gone also.
even if it means bankrupting the team with an offer they can not afford?

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07-19-2012, 07:23 AM
  #224
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even if it means bankrupting the team with an offer they can not afford?
If that's the case, and I say this as a multi-year Pred season ticket holder - they need to move to Quebec.

This is the price of being in the NHL. If you're never prepared to pay this type of contract, to one of the best players in the world, then we're not prepared to do what it takes to win a cup. Especially when you're dead last in payroll and millions under the cap floor.

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07-19-2012, 07:24 AM
  #225
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if they don't match this just makes the Preds/Devils alliance even stronger. We don't want him in Philly just as much as you guys.

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