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Weber Signs OS w/ Philly (14 yrs, $110 mil - $7.85 mil cap hit) Mod Warning Post 364

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07-19-2012, 07:26 AM
  #226
triggrman
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Poile was once again just moving to slow..... Weber forced his hand...

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07-19-2012, 07:36 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
If that's the case, and I say this as a multi-year Pred season ticket holder - they need to move to Quebec.

This is the price of being in the NHL. If you're never prepared to pay this type of contract, to one of the best players in the world, then we're not prepared to do what it takes to win a cup. Especially when you're dead last in payroll and millions under the cap floor.
This is the new price of the NHL. The huge signing bonuses didn't really start occurring until the past two years. Keith had a big signing bonus for his deal ... $7.5 over four years. Compare that to Suter's $25mil over three. If the offer from Philly is even more front loaded than that we're looking at the real cash equivalent of almost three Crosby cap hits for year one. $25mil up front would be more than 1/8 of what the owners paid for the team five years ago ... approx 1/7 of what the Lightning sold for two years ago.

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07-19-2012, 07:40 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Predsboro View Post
Seth Lake put it well:

If the Preds match the offer sheet, they cannot trade him for a year. If he wanted out 100%, then he would've signed a 1 yr deal & be done.
Yeah... This is what I was thinking. He knows the Preds will match. Why not decline the offer sheet and demand a trade?

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07-19-2012, 07:41 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
This is the new price of the NHL. The huge signing bonuses didn't really start occurring until the past two years. Keith had a big signing bonus for his deal ... $7.5 over four years. Compare that to Suter's $25mil over three. If the offer from Philly is even more front loaded than that we're looking at the real cash equivalent of almost three Crosby cap hits for year one. $25mil up front would be more than 1/8 of what the owners paid for the team five years ago ... approx 1/7 of what the Lightning sold for two years ago.
Makes no difference.

This is the price of talent in the NHL.

How can you never be expected to have to pony up a deal like this?

Suppose the Preds do draft the next Wayne Gretzky? Guess what he's going to want when his contract is up?

If we're not financially set enough to pay at least 1 contract like this, then really, we have no business being in the NHL.

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07-19-2012, 07:42 AM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
If that's the case, and I say this as a multi-year Pred season ticket holder - they need to move to Quebec.

This is the price of being in the NHL. If you're never prepared to pay this type of contract, to one of the best players in the world, then we're not prepared to do what it takes to win a cup. Especially when you're dead last in payroll and millions under the cap floor.
I agree 100%.

Just as an interesting observation: matching this deal for Weber (assuming the cap number is roughly $7.5M), we would still be more than $20M under the salary floor.

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07-19-2012, 07:45 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
I agree 100%.

Just as an interesting observation: matching this deal for Weber (assuming the cap number is roughly $7.5M), we would still be more than $20M under the salary floor.
It's not the cap that's the problem. It's the CASH going out each year. If the first year of the deal is really $26 million in cash, that's potentially an issue.

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07-19-2012, 07:46 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by lstcyr View Post
It's not the cap that's the problem. It's the CASH going out each year. If the first year of the deal is really $26 million in cash, that's potentially an issue.
Then take a loan. Preds are (or should be) a going concern - peel it off future years.

Look at the other side - in a few years you might have a Norris winning D-man for half-price or less.

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07-19-2012, 07:52 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Makes no difference.

This is the price of talent in the NHL.

How can you never be expected to have to pony up a deal like this?

Suppose the Preds do draft the next Wayne Gretzky? Guess what he's going to want when his contract is up?

If we're not financially set enough to pay at least 1 contract like this, then really, we have no business being in the NHL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Then take a loan. Preds are (or should be) a going concern - peel it off future years.

Look at the other side - in a few years you might have a Norris winning D-man for half-price or less.
If we draft the next Gretzky and the owners get half of what they want in the next CBA, no issue because these contracts of the past 2-3 seasons become a thing of the past. As for taking out a loan, the Preds have been working to restructure and lower their debt load. It's counterproductive to add to the debt you're trying to eliminate. Maybe they can afford the huge cash outlay for Weber, maybe not.

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07-19-2012, 08:02 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
If we draft the next Gretzky and the owners get half of what they want in the next CBA, no issue because these contracts of the past 2-3 seasons become a thing of the past. As for taking out a loan, the Preds have been working to restructure and lower their debt load. It's counterproductive to add to the debt you're trying to eliminate. Maybe they can afford the huge cash outlay for Weber, maybe not.
I see what you're saying, but it still goes back to the price of talent.

Even if the owners get everything they want in the new CBA - players aren't playing for minimum wage here. They're still going to have to pony up mega-bucks.

If they won't pay market rate for a homegrown, face of the franchise, legit top 3 player on the planet -then when will they?

And then what's the point of playing NHL hockey? I mean, suppose the Preds end up picking #1 - are they going to trade out to #10 because #1 guy might be too expensive?

If you want to win in the NHL, you're going to have to pay a contract like this every once in a while - if the Preds won't or can't do it now, then they've no business in the NHL.

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07-19-2012, 08:02 AM
  #235
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What a cheap shot to your team. I would let him go - he doesn't want to be there.

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07-19-2012, 08:04 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Cashville View Post
Hahaha exactly, I feel like one of the few people who woke up this morning, saw the news, and was hopping around with excitement. If Poile doesn't match this, then it is clear he was replaced by an android with faulty wiring years ago.

Matching it would be one of the greatest days in Preds history in my opinion, it would also be one of the saddest days for VAN/PHI/etc haha.

EDIT: It's also my birthday today; match today Poile for me!
A match today would be terrific, but I'm afraid that they'll use most of the 7 days just because they can. They'll probably spend all of today just going over the contract, then a few days discussing it and weighing it against 4 1sts, then it may take a few days to make sure that they have the money--i.e. if it takes securing a loan--to pay the up-front bonuses. By the time that all is said and done, it might not be until Tuesday or Wednesday that they finally match. That's just my speculation. I'd love for them to match immediately, but they're businessmen and will probably give it due diligence, even if the final decision is almost certain. It's still 100+ million dollars, after all. I'd love to be wrong, though.

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07-19-2012, 08:04 AM
  #237
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Weber is arguably the best defenseman in the NHL. He wants to get paid as such while still having the team he plays for the ability to be competitive. He signed an offer sheet that allows this either here or in Philly. He also probably realizes the team needs to retool for this season so signing a front loaded contract is not going to effect us signing players in the future as his cap hit and actually salary will be fair.

We won't trade Weber as someone said earlier because why would we match the offer, pay him huge bucks for one season, only to see his salary be fair and then trade him for pieces? Makes no sense.

Weber forced Poile's hand. Good for him. He and his agent worked the system as did Philly and Holmgren. If we don't match we're idiots and at that point, the owners are full of ****. This is a no brainer. If you want to compete in the NHL, you have to keep your home grown talent. Weber is one of the best if not the best defenseman in the league. He should get paid what he's worth.

Holmgren really did us a favor and just sped up the process. Within 7 days we will all be very happy or very sad.

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07-19-2012, 08:06 AM
  #238
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As an aside, nothing in the fish wrap about this. Amazing.

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07-19-2012, 08:07 AM
  #239
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Two issues now that we do not know the particulars about:

1) Is the well poisoned between Shea and the Predators? None of us know Shea's thought process behind signing this offer, or what the last few days of discussion were like. We can speculate until the cows come home. Unless GMDP and Shea put it out there for us, it is just that. Speculation.
2) Are the owners willing to sign those potentially huge signing bonus checks? There has been speculation that Holmgren set the poison pill in that way thinking they would NOT be able/willing to do that. AAV on the contract is not the problem.

I doubt this takes the whole 7 days to play out, for better or worse. My opinion of SHea has changed some by all of this. I understand taking care of you financial future-- Lord knows I wish I had some kind of opportunity to do that. But there are just too many variables right now for us to know what brought things to this point.

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07-19-2012, 08:16 AM
  #240
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Not matching is simply not an option. Even if Weber has said he "wants out"(signing a 14 year deal we could match is a bad way to say that, by the way, so I doubt it's the case), you take your lumps, match the offer sheet, and trade him next summer at a higher value than you could ever have hoped for this summer anyway.

4 bottom 10 first round picks doesn't cut it. Losing Weber for that is essentially hitting the reset button on the franchise.

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07-19-2012, 08:17 AM
  #241
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Just a Jackets fan stopping by to say this sucks for you fans. It's been a crappy off-season for you guys and gals, and you shouldn't have to go through that.

At least you'll know that no matter what, you can still beat up on the Jackets next season.

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07-19-2012, 08:18 AM
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
I see what you're saying, but it still goes back to the price of talent.

Even if the owners get everything they want in the new CBA - players aren't playing for minimum wage here. They're still going to have to pony up mega-bucks.

If they won't pay market rate for a homegrown, face of the franchise, legit top 3 player on the planet -then when will they?

And then what's the point of playing NHL hockey? I mean, suppose the Preds end up picking #1 - are they going to trade out to #10 because #1 guy might be too expensive?

If you want to win in the NHL, you're going to have to pay a contract like this every once in a while - if the Preds won't or can't do it now, then they've no business in the NHL.
You're now the decider of who has business in the NHL? A $9mil per year outlay is one thing ... expecting teams to have $20-30mil in cash laying around is another level altogether. There are signed three players with a $10mil signing bonus payable in any given year .... including Parise and Suter ... only five with a $5mil or greater bonus due in any year. The concept that we should be constantly prepared to pay at a previously unheard of level is pushing the bounds of reality.

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07-19-2012, 08:23 AM
  #243
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IMHO i dont think the Term is the problem i think the upfront amount is, Poile said he never had a chance to counter Suter's deal, so it was likely he was willing to shell out a 14 year deal but maybe not the money as it is. this could be that situation too, i really hope he stays with NSH, 4 late 1sts just isn't **** compare to a Weber

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07-19-2012, 08:28 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
You're now the decider of who has business in the NHL? A $9mil per year outlay is one thing ... expecting teams to have $20-30mil in cash laying around is another level altogether. There are signed three players with a $10mil signing bonus payable in any given year .... including Parise and Suter ... only five with a $5mil or greater bonus due in any year. The concept that we should be constantly prepared to pay at a previously unheard of level is pushing the bounds of reality.
Actually, yes - I'm one of several million who decides who and what city gets an NHL franchise - I vote with my wallet.

Let Weber go for a bunch of draft picks, and I will probably find other things to do than drive over from Knoxville 8 times a year or so. I'd bet quite a few Preds fans will agree with me. Then see a half empty Bridgestone Arena, then see owners with cold feet, then see the Hamilton Preds.

Also, no one has advocated "constantly" paying at unheard of levels - we're simply saying that if it was time to pony up the dough to any player, this is it. We don't have to do it constantly, but we should be prepared to do it at least once in a while when the circumstances dictate.

Well done 101, it took you like 7 posts to go full-on ***** mode. Tomorrow, we'll try for 8.

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07-19-2012, 08:28 AM
  #245
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If i am the preds that's a long long deal to sign. however i also feel that the 4 first rounder you get from Philly is most likely crap. i still do not think i would match it.

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07-19-2012, 08:30 AM
  #246
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Yes , it's the astronomical signing bonus that is the problem. I don't understand why this isn't addressed in the ongoing CBA . Frankly, the huge signing bonus issue will just benefit the rich teams and allow them to circumvent the cap ceiling. Why have a cap? Really, why?

This whole thing is just ridiculous. The owners said they'd pay up to the ceiling for people. They didn't say, oh, we'll just shell out millions in bonuses. Cash flow is an issue.

I don't really care what happens at this point. I'm just kind of sickened by all of it.
We might as well be the nba!!

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07-19-2012, 08:31 AM
  #247
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Yes , it's the astronomical signing bonus that is the problem. I don't understand why this isn't addressed in the ongoing CBA . Frankly, the huge signing bonus issue will just benefit the rich teams and allow them to circumvent the cap ceiling. Why have a cap? Really, why?

This whole thing is just ridiculous. The owners said they'd pay up to the ceiling for people. They didn't say, oh, we'll just shell out millions in bonuses. Cash flow is an issue.

I don't really care what happens at this point. I'm just kind of sickened by all of it.
We might as well be the nba!!
I think this is one of the things they're going to address with the new CBA, the signing bonus issue that is.

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07-19-2012, 08:33 AM
  #248
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I'm SHOCKED that people are so negative on here (sarcasm off). If all this information is true, how is this a terrible thing? Look, we knew it was going to take a lot to keep him here, but no one knew HOW much. These trade winds on Weber were getting crazy on what teams were "offering." With the new CBA looming, a deal needed to be done. Poile, I'm assuming, entertained many avenues he could have taken with this. Yeah, he was probably taking a look at trading him, as he was looking to resign him as well. I can only imagine that Poile went up to see Weber and his agent and they wanted the best deal. I can only take his word and say he WANTS to stay in Nashville, and signing this offer sheet almost assumes that.

Polie already came out and said we would match any offer. Weber knew (and I thought I remember a quote) saying he knew Poile would match a deal. Weber/Flyers put his price out there, but at the same time, put Nashville in a great position. They can MATCH now. He kept his interest in mind obviously (as you should as a working man), but this plays to our advantage awesomely.I feel if he didnt want to sign here, he would have taken a 1 year and went UFA, but the CBA kinda nixed that. However, I find it hard pressed to believe this idea of signing an offer sheet was a "middle finger" to us or whatever most people on here are saying. I know losing Suter hurts and the way he did it seemed cruel, but Weber is cut from a different cloth. This guy can and is a leader and one of the best in the NHL. He is going to get paid, no question. We have the money, we have the technology (lol sorry...). This is good news people we are about to sign Mr. Weber for 14 years! Get excited!

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07-19-2012, 08:35 AM
  #249
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I really feel for you guys; it still stings when I think about Federov signing an offer sheet, so I know how it feels.

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07-19-2012, 08:36 AM
  #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantom View Post
If i am the preds that's a long long deal to sign. however i also feel that the 4 first rounder you get from Philly is most likely crap. i still do not think i would match it.
Say Tavares didn't have his current (awesome) deal and a team were to offersheet him for 14 years 100+million. You'd rather the Isles let him walk for 4 crappy firsts? I'm not a big fan of the long term deals either, but there are a select group of players you do it for. And I'd say both Weber and Tavares are in that group.

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