Whether it's front-loaded or not, it's still the same amount of money over the course of the deal. That's how a businessman is going to look at it. The media is obsessed with the first few years, but businessmen understand investment and up-front cost. It may take some work to come up with the money, but they'll appreciate the long-term benefit.
It may be painful now, but will slowly get better and, by the halfway mark, the contract will start to be a bargain. It's really only the first calendar year that's extremely painful, at $27M doled out, then the dole drops almost in half, to $14M. They certainly had every capability and intention of paying $14M per year, as they would've had to (and then some) to keep both Weber and Suter. So, the way that I look at it is... are they really going to let Weber go over a matter of an extra $13M paid out right now? Relatively speaking, that's not much. A 15-year loan at 5% annually for that $13M is only $1.23M per year. They can make the payments quite manageable for their limited budget if they really want to. I doubt that they need to--they surely have the money--but it's an option.
Also, note that Poile was not upset with the contract that Minnesota gave to Suter and didn't say, "we couldn't have matched, anyways." He was genuinely upset that he wasn't given a chance to match, suggesting that he likely would've matched if given the opportunity. If he had the go-ahead to sign Suter to such a front-loaded contract, then I see no reason for him to not have the go-ahead to sign Weber to one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan98
Okay, what are the differences in signing bonus $? If this deal is designed in this way there have to be advantages for Weber?
What are they? Are signing bonuses not subject to escrow? Are signing bonus not subject to taxes ? Are signing bonuses paid if there is a lockout? ETc?
It has to be something other than paid once a year rather than over 12 months like salary....
Remember when, following the last lockout, players had their salaries rolled back 24%? Well, if it happens again--and, for the sake of argument, let's say that it's the same 24%--Weber's $1M base salary will be rolled back 24% to $760K and his $13M signing bonus won't be touched. If his base salary were $10M, he'd lose $2.4M, rather than only $240K. That's likely a large reason why he and others recently (esp. Suter and Parise) have structured their contracts like this.
Okay, what are the differences in signing bonus $? If this deal is designed in this way there have to be advantages for Weber?
What are they? Are signing bonuses not subject to escrow? Are signing bonus not subject to taxes ? Are signing bonuses paid if there is a lockout? ETc?
It has to be something other than paid once a year rather than over 12 months like salary....
IIRC, he gets the cheque for a signing bonus after he signs the contract. So, he gets the 13 million right then and there.
Okay, what are the differences in signing bonus $? If this deal is designed in this way there have to be advantages for Weber?
What are they? Are signing bonuses not subject to escrow? Are signing bonus not subject to taxes ? Are signing bonuses paid if there is a lockout? ETc?
It has to be something other than paid once a year rather than over 12 months like salary....
Player gets signing bonuses regardless of what happens (lockouts etc.). It's essentially guaranteed money so to speak. Doing so, you lower the total dollars earned for a given year (consequently lowering cap hit). So there's incentive for a GM and players like Weber to do it if they want to get their money right way due to CBA concerns.
I think we intend to match, honestly don't think the $ is the problem. Fully believe that there is some worry that the season could be lost and if so, if we still owe Weber that signing bonus, how in the world would we pay that?
I know it's been said, I know it's true and I know that it's a completely ludicrous amount of money, but this is what it takes to be one of 30 cities in the world with an NHL franchise. I don't like the silly amount of money that's been thrown around here lately, but this is the market. Time to pony up or go home.
Honestly, sad as it is to admit this, if we don't match I think it's going to kill our franchise, maybe even my ability to put my faith into the team.
I've never been on the fire Poile bandwagon, but these 2 guys have put him through the ringer and I wonder if he will rebound.
No, this is typical Poile having to think about things for weeks at a time... which is why we are in this position in the first place. I understand these things take careful planning, but Poile has had a ton of time to get something done well before his hand was forced.
I agree, but Shea wanted to hit the market. This is a much better deal than we could/would have ever offered him.
Could the ability to insure the contract be a issue ie: You can insure the salary, but can you insure the signing bonus?
if we can't insure everything.... we shouldn't do this deal. Weber has been out twice for concussions. And frankly I think that is part of the reason he was so "less physical" this year. (along with shannahammer)
I agree, but Shea wanted to hit the market. This is a much better deal than we could/would have ever offered him.
Exactly, which would imply Poile hasn't exactly been a great negotiator through all of this. Regardless of wether or not we match this, I think Poile may have an early retirement if things don't go well this season.
Player gets signing bonuses regardless of what happens (lockouts etc.). It's essentially guaranteed money so to speak. Doing so, you lower the total dollars earned for a given year (consequently lowering cap hit). So there's incentive for a GM and players like Weber to do it if they want to get their money right way due to CBA concerns.
Bonuses are part of the average salary, doesn't help the cap hit.
The 13 million this season is in case of a lockout, that much is true, but the bonuses beyond that I would think don't make much of a difference to Weber, they would be subject to a rollback if there was one just as much as his salary would be, not much difference how he gets his 14 million a season I wouldn't think, although any accountant or investor would tell you 14 million today is better then 14 million over a year, could be a small factor. Anyways, beyond the first year as "lockout protection", what they are is an attempt by Philly to scare off Nashville from matching, simple as that.
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One thing that will be interesting to watch if Poile and the owners decide not to match is the huge overpayments guys like SK get in an attempt to reach the cap floor.
And didn't we just add a billionaire to the ownership group? I wonder how much affect that has on their final decision.
One more thing: I just wanted to say that outside fans are welcome. However, any efforts of trolling, flaming, or any other violation of the site rules in here will be met with a forum ban from the Predators forum. Not just a one or two week ban, but you will not be allowed back for such a long time that you likely forget this forum even exists. This is not the time or the place to act any way other than respectful towards Predators fans. Basically, if your post has to be deleted you should expect more to follow.
Preds fans, if you see someone in here violating the rules please do not return the fire. Help us out by reporting it.
If everyone is here for the reasons they should be here (mainly, to have a decent conversation) everything should be fine.
Don't turn on your guys for signing an offer sheet. As mentioned, Kesler did the same thing (with Philly no less) and he's still one of Vancouver's core players. Just match it and move on.
I honestly can't see the Preds matching this. That's a lot of signing bonus right there.
If they match they have to keep him because they will dole out a lot of money in the first three years anyways so trading him after paying him more than half of the contract isn't worth it and you can't trade him for a year after you have matched.
Shea Weber possibly gone, Suter already gone..., I can't believe this happened to the Preds. I really feel bad for the fans.
IMO the best possible scenario for the Preds is to threaten the Flyers of matching if they don't take back the picks for roster players, then trade those four first round picks they get from the Flyers back to the Flyers for guys like Schenn+,Couturier+ etc.
I'm fairly certain that is possible. Essentially it boils down to Shea+four 1st round picks for Schenn++, Couturier++ etc.
CBA gurus, is there any way that Predators fans can get more for Weber besides the four 1st round picks if they decide not to match? Or if they were seeking to deal him, would it actually just be better for them to pay the 26 million this year and trade him next summer?
After seeing the details, I highly doubt the owners pony up this kind of ridiculous money the first 4 years. What a joke: playing for $1 million per year but with a $13 mil signing bonus. Sadly, I'm starting to think we should just take the draft picks and rebuild. I don't want to think that but I'm just concerned that all that money will really handcuff us as a franchise in the next few years and it's not worth it for one guy. This just keeps getting worse and worse.
When I first saw the deal, I was blown away, but after letting it set in, I think this is the moment. THIS IS the moment of our franchise. Us, as fans, have been complaining since Suter left and have wondered "Are we a true franchise or just a farm team?" We get Weber signed (even if the number is so large), we become a franchise with a backbone. Let's face it: This contract is stupid. It's a lot of guaranteed money invested in ONE player. I get that, but Weber is one of the 5 guys in the NHL I would do that for. He is easily our franchise player and will be compensated as much. We need to TAKE that risk and bite the bullet and get back our leader. We fold on this, have fun watching our Nashville Predators sink lower in the standings and in the minds of NHL players who want to go to successful/paying teams. My .02
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Originally Posted by Hustlechuck24
No, this is typical Poile having to think about things for weeks at a time... which is why we are in this position in the first place. I understand these things take careful planning, but Poile has had a ton of time to get something done well before his hand was forced.
So negative today I think Polie ********d up with Suter. Not in the fact of trading him before the deadline, but putting too much trust into a players word. Who knows what exactly happened behind the curtain, but it sucked watching him leave for sure. However, in this situation, I think Poile played and will continue to play this one correctly. He knew Weber was going to be expensive and he even entertained ideas of trading him, but with the Flyers putting a solid offer on the table, that is the bar. If it was Philly, Vancouver, Detroit, etc. that number was going to be the rate. Poile now has one option: Put up or shut up. You say you want a Stanley Cup team, you need a Stanley Cup player. Weber IS that guy. No one in any trade will be that guy. Yes, its a team game, but you need that stud and Weber is! You let him walk, s**t hits the fan and it hits it hard. In my mind, this WILL happen and we WILL become a serious suitor (pun intended...that rat b***ard)
To someone who is knowledgeable about the offer sheet:
Am I right in assuming that the Preds can decide not to match, get the picks, trade them back to the Flyers for roster players that can help the Preds right now?
That should be what Poile should tell Holmgren. Give me roster players or I match (even if the Nashville Preds decision is not to match).
Good lord I leave for a few days and this happens!? Ownership and management better match it or they might as well pack it in and retire. Nobody will survive this with the exception of Trotz.
Its a pretty easy scenario to figure out. The 4 1st rounders will likely never live up to Shea Weber so the compensation from Philly really shouldn't play into it. That cap hit is definitely not bad for a player his caliber.
Comes down to if ownership can afford to pay him that much money or not. That's a ton of money for a small market team.
4 1st's is nothing to sneeze at if Weber wants out of Nash.
I think Polie ********d up with Suter. Not in the fact of trading him before the deadline, but putting too much trust into a players word. Who knows what exactly happened behind the curtain, but it sucked watching him leave for sure. However, in this situation, I think Poile played and will continue to play this one correctly. He knew Weber was going to be expensive and he even entertained ideas of trading him, but with the Flyers putting a solid offer on the table, that is the bar. If it was Philly, Vancouver, Detroit, etc. that number was going to be the rate. Poile now has one option: Put up or shut up. You say you want a Stanley Cup team, you need a Stanley Cup player. Weber IS that guy. No one in any trade will be that guy. Yes, its a team game, but you need that stud and Weber is! You let him walk, s**t hits the fan and it hits it hard. In my mind, this WILL happen and we WILL become a serious suitor (pun intended...that rat b***ard)
