HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Nashville Predators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Weber Signs OS w/ Philly (14 yrs, $110 mil - $7.85 mil cap hit) Mod Warning Post 364

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-19-2012, 11:22 AM
  #351
Osprey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 14,771
vCash: 500
Whether it's front-loaded or not, it's still the same amount of money over the course of the deal. That's how a businessman is going to look at it. The media is obsessed with the first few years, but businessmen understand investment and up-front cost. It may take some work to come up with the money, but they'll appreciate the long-term benefit.

It may be painful now, but will slowly get better and, by the halfway mark, the contract will start to be a bargain. It's really only the first calendar year that's extremely painful, at $27M doled out, then the dole drops almost in half, to $14M. They certainly had every capability and intention of paying $14M per year, as they would've had to (and then some) to keep both Weber and Suter. So, the way that I look at it is... are they really going to let Weber go over a matter of an extra $13M paid out right now? Relatively speaking, that's not much. A 15-year loan at 5% annually for that $13M is only $1.23M per year. They can make the payments quite manageable for their limited budget if they really want to. I doubt that they need to--they surely have the money--but it's an option.

Also, note that Poile was not upset with the contract that Minnesota gave to Suter and didn't say, "we couldn't have matched, anyways." He was genuinely upset that he wasn't given a chance to match, suggesting that he likely would've matched if given the opportunity. If he had the go-ahead to sign Suter to such a front-loaded contract, then I see no reason for him to not have the go-ahead to sign Weber to one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
Okay, what are the differences in signing bonus $? If this deal is designed in this way there have to be advantages for Weber?

What are they? Are signing bonuses not subject to escrow? Are signing bonus not subject to taxes ? Are signing bonuses paid if there is a lockout? ETc?

It has to be something other than paid once a year rather than over 12 months like salary....
Remember when, following the last lockout, players had their salaries rolled back 24%? Well, if it happens again--and, for the sake of argument, let's say that it's the same 24%--Weber's $1M base salary will be rolled back 24% to $760K and his $13M signing bonus won't be touched. If his base salary were $10M, he'd lose $2.4M, rather than only $240K. That's likely a large reason why he and others recently (esp. Suter and Parise) have structured their contracts like this.


Last edited by Osprey: 07-19-2012 at 11:31 AM.
Osprey is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:23 AM
  #352
I Hate Chris Butler
Backlund Fan Club
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Saskatchewan
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,609
vCash: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
Okay, what are the differences in signing bonus $? If this deal is designed in this way there have to be advantages for Weber?

What are they? Are signing bonuses not subject to escrow? Are signing bonus not subject to taxes ? Are signing bonuses paid if there is a lockout? ETc?

It has to be something other than paid once a year rather than over 12 months like salary....
IIRC, he gets the cheque for a signing bonus after he signs the contract. So, he gets the 13 million right then and there.

I Hate Chris Butler is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:23 AM
  #353
JS19
Four Kicks
 
JS19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Shark Tank
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,333
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
Okay, what are the differences in signing bonus $? If this deal is designed in this way there have to be advantages for Weber?

What are they? Are signing bonuses not subject to escrow? Are signing bonus not subject to taxes ? Are signing bonuses paid if there is a lockout? ETc?

It has to be something other than paid once a year rather than over 12 months like salary....
Player gets signing bonuses regardless of what happens (lockouts etc.). It's essentially guaranteed money so to speak. Doing so, you lower the total dollars earned for a given year (consequently lowering cap hit). So there's incentive for a GM and players like Weber to do it if they want to get their money right way due to CBA concerns.

JS19 is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:27 AM
  #354
JR303
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 206
vCash: 500
I think we intend to match, honestly don't think the $ is the problem. Fully believe that there is some worry that the season could be lost and if so, if we still owe Weber that signing bonus, how in the world would we pay that?

I know it's been said, I know it's true and I know that it's a completely ludicrous amount of money, but this is what it takes to be one of 30 cities in the world with an NHL franchise. I don't like the silly amount of money that's been thrown around here lately, but this is the market. Time to pony up or go home.

Honestly, sad as it is to admit this, if we don't match I think it's going to kill our franchise, maybe even my ability to put my faith into the team.

I've never been on the fire Poile bandwagon, but these 2 guys have put him through the ringer and I wonder if he will rebound.

JR303 is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:28 AM
  #355
hipcheck85
Where is Triggrman?
 
hipcheck85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Nashville / Via NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,237
vCash: 500
Could the ability to insure the contract be a issue ie: You can insure the salary, but can you insure the signing bonus?

hipcheck85 is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:31 AM
  #356
kypredsfan
Weber is OUR captain
 
kypredsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 4,768
vCash: 500
If that's the only statement then he might as well not of said anything. Strap in for a full 7 days is what that most likely means.

kypredsfan is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:34 AM
  #357
Shea Weber
Registered User
 
Shea Weber's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 608
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hustlechuck24 View Post
No, this is typical Poile having to think about things for weeks at a time... which is why we are in this position in the first place. I understand these things take careful planning, but Poile has had a ton of time to get something done well before his hand was forced.
I agree, but Shea wanted to hit the market. This is a much better deal than we could/would have ever offered him.

Shea Weber is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:34 AM
  #358
predfan98
Registered User
 
predfan98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipcheck85 View Post
Could the ability to insure the contract be a issue ie: You can insure the salary, but can you insure the signing bonus?
if we can't insure everything.... we shouldn't do this deal. Weber has been out twice for concussions. And frankly I think that is part of the reason he was so "less physical" this year. (along with shannahammer)

predfan98 is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:37 AM
  #359
CCF
This is the year....
 
CCF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Across Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,307
vCash: 500
Preds should not match until the last minute. Make the Flyers think they got Weber and then BAM! Nope!

CCF is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:37 AM
  #360
Roman Yoshi
Ellis too short
 
Roman Yoshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Franklin, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 4,939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shea Weber View Post
I agree, but Shea wanted to hit the market. This is a much better deal than we could/would have ever offered him.
Exactly, which would imply Poile hasn't exactly been a great negotiator through all of this. Regardless of wether or not we match this, I think Poile may have an early retirement if things don't go well this season.

Roman Yoshi is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:40 AM
  #361
Squiffy
Victims, rn't we all
 
Squiffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,533
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JS19 View Post
Player gets signing bonuses regardless of what happens (lockouts etc.). It's essentially guaranteed money so to speak. Doing so, you lower the total dollars earned for a given year (consequently lowering cap hit). So there's incentive for a GM and players like Weber to do it if they want to get their money right way due to CBA concerns.
Bonuses are part of the average salary, doesn't help the cap hit.

The 13 million this season is in case of a lockout, that much is true, but the bonuses beyond that I would think don't make much of a difference to Weber, they would be subject to a rollback if there was one just as much as his salary would be, not much difference how he gets his 14 million a season I wouldn't think, although any accountant or investor would tell you 14 million today is better then 14 million over a year, could be a small factor. Anyways, beyond the first year as "lockout protection", what they are is an attempt by Philly to scare off Nashville from matching, simple as that.

__________________
bWo: If you don't know, you should know... Buds WORLD Order Constitution
Adj: "Squiffy" - stupefied by a chemical substance (esp. alcohol)

R.I.P. Darryl buddy... it was too soon.. too soon
Squiffy is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:43 AM
  #362
Nothing Is New
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 521
vCash: 500
Here's how they could look at it:

Year Philly Deal Weber Age What Weber is Worth *** Delta

1 $14 27 $10M -4M
2 $14 28 $10 -8M
3 $14 29 $10.5 -11.5M
4 $14 30 $10.5 -15M
5 $12 31 $10.5 -16.5M
6 $12 32 $10.5 -18M
7 $6 33 $10 -14M
8 $6 34 $10 -10M
9 $6 35 $8 -8M
10 $6 36 $8 -6M
11 $3 37 $6 -3M
12 $1 38 $5 +1M

He retires

Nothing Is New is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:46 AM
  #363
TMI
Mod Supervisor
 
TMI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 46,355
vCash: 500
One thing that will be interesting to watch if Poile and the owners decide not to match is the huge overpayments guys like SK get in an attempt to reach the cap floor.

And didn't we just add a billionaire to the ownership group? I wonder how much affect that has on their final decision.

TMI is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:50 AM
  #364
TMI
Mod Supervisor
 
TMI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 46,355
vCash: 500
One more thing: I just wanted to say that outside fans are welcome. However, any efforts of trolling, flaming, or any other violation of the site rules in here will be met with a forum ban from the Predators forum. Not just a one or two week ban, but you will not be allowed back for such a long time that you likely forget this forum even exists. This is not the time or the place to act any way other than respectful towards Predators fans. Basically, if your post has to be deleted you should expect more to follow.

Preds fans, if you see someone in here violating the rules please do not return the fire. Help us out by reporting it.

If everyone is here for the reasons they should be here (mainly, to have a decent conversation) everything should be fine.

Thanks

TMI is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:53 AM
  #365
Bobby Lou
Moustache Power
 
Bobby Lou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Crease
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,459
vCash: 894
Don't turn on your guys for signing an offer sheet. As mentioned, Kesler did the same thing (with Philly no less) and he's still one of Vancouver's core players. Just match it and move on.

Bobby Lou is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:53 AM
  #366
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,204
vCash: 50
I honestly can't see the Preds matching this. That's a lot of signing bonus right there.

If they match they have to keep him because they will dole out a lot of money in the first three years anyways so trading him after paying him more than half of the contract isn't worth it and you can't trade him for a year after you have matched.

Shea Weber possibly gone, Suter already gone..., I can't believe this happened to the Preds. I really feel bad for the fans.

IMO the best possible scenario for the Preds is to threaten the Flyers of matching if they don't take back the picks for roster players, then trade those four first round picks they get from the Flyers back to the Flyers for guys like Schenn+,Couturier+ etc.

I'm fairly certain that is possible. Essentially it boils down to Shea+four 1st round picks for Schenn++, Couturier++ etc.

Pi is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:54 AM
  #367
AdmiralsFan24
Registered User
 
AdmiralsFan24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
Posts: 6,195
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to AdmiralsFan24
Headline

Quote:
Predators intend to match Shea Weber's offer from Philadelphia
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20...nclick_check=1

AdmiralsFan24 is online now  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:56 AM
  #368
BringTheReign
Registered User
 
BringTheReign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Orange County
Country: United States
Posts: 2,305
vCash: 500
CBA gurus, is there any way that Predators fans can get more for Weber besides the four 1st round picks if they decide not to match? Or if they were seeking to deal him, would it actually just be better for them to pay the 26 million this year and trade him next summer?

BringTheReign is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:56 AM
  #369
Predarat
Registered User
 
Predarat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 View Post
What is wrong with the vollessean? Did they not read the statement before the made the headline?

Predarat is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:56 AM
  #370
predfan98
Registered User
 
predfan98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 View Post
It's the stupid fishwrap... Their headline is not accurate according to what is in the Predators statement that is quoted in the article.

predfan98 is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:57 AM
  #371
PredsHockey
Registered User
 
PredsHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Country: United States
Posts: 82
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kypredsfan View Post
After seeing the details, I highly doubt the owners pony up this kind of ridiculous money the first 4 years. What a joke: playing for $1 million per year but with a $13 mil signing bonus. Sadly, I'm starting to think we should just take the draft picks and rebuild. I don't want to think that but I'm just concerned that all that money will really handcuff us as a franchise in the next few years and it's not worth it for one guy. This just keeps getting worse and worse.
When I first saw the deal, I was blown away, but after letting it set in, I think this is the moment. THIS IS the moment of our franchise. Us, as fans, have been complaining since Suter left and have wondered "Are we a true franchise or just a farm team?" We get Weber signed (even if the number is so large), we become a franchise with a backbone. Let's face it: This contract is stupid. It's a lot of guaranteed money invested in ONE player. I get that, but Weber is one of the 5 guys in the NHL I would do that for. He is easily our franchise player and will be compensated as much. We need to TAKE that risk and bite the bullet and get back our leader. We fold on this, have fun watching our Nashville Predators sink lower in the standings and in the minds of NHL players who want to go to successful/paying teams. My .02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hustlechuck24 View Post
No, this is typical Poile having to think about things for weeks at a time... which is why we are in this position in the first place. I understand these things take careful planning, but Poile has had a ton of time to get something done well before his hand was forced.
So negative today I think Polie ********d up with Suter. Not in the fact of trading him before the deadline, but putting too much trust into a players word. Who knows what exactly happened behind the curtain, but it sucked watching him leave for sure. However, in this situation, I think Poile played and will continue to play this one correctly. He knew Weber was going to be expensive and he even entertained ideas of trading him, but with the Flyers putting a solid offer on the table, that is the bar. If it was Philly, Vancouver, Detroit, etc. that number was going to be the rate. Poile now has one option: Put up or shut up. You say you want a Stanley Cup team, you need a Stanley Cup player. Weber IS that guy. No one in any trade will be that guy. Yes, its a team game, but you need that stud and Weber is! You let him walk, s**t hits the fan and it hits it hard. In my mind, this WILL happen and we WILL become a serious suitor (pun intended...that rat b***ard)

PredsHockey is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 11:59 AM
  #372
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,204
vCash: 50
To someone who is knowledgeable about the offer sheet:

Am I right in assuming that the Preds can decide not to match, get the picks, trade them back to the Flyers for roster players that can help the Preds right now?

That should be what Poile should tell Holmgren. Give me roster players or I match (even if the Nashville Preds decision is not to match).

Pi is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 12:00 PM
  #373
predfan98
Registered User
 
predfan98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,637
vCash: 500
I know this is a little off the subject...

But , if he truly wants out..............you don't want a captain cancer in the locker room..

DP appears so truly blinded by the Suter situation, I don't have a lot of faith in his reading of the mindset of the players anymore.

predfan98 is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 12:00 PM
  #374
TootooTrain
-
 
TootooTrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,034
vCash: 500
Good lord I leave for a few days and this happens!? Ownership and management better match it or they might as well pack it in and retire. Nobody will survive this with the exception of Trotz.

TootooTrain is online now  
Old
07-19-2012, 12:01 PM
  #375
hckyplayer8
He's Gone!
 
hckyplayer8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chicken Capital,PA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,332
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by S319R11S16 View Post
Its a pretty easy scenario to figure out. The 4 1st rounders will likely never live up to Shea Weber so the compensation from Philly really shouldn't play into it. That cap hit is definitely not bad for a player his caliber.

Comes down to if ownership can afford to pay him that much money or not. That's a ton of money for a small market team.
4 1st's is nothing to sneeze at if Weber wants out of Nash.

IMHO of course.

hckyplayer8 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:33 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.