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Hockey in Europe and growth

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Old
10-30-2011, 05:26 PM
  #126
Jonimaus
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Originally Posted by hahahaa View Post
there are less games in football, but then again football stadiums are usually much bigger than icehockey arenas

agree, Elitserien is easily in top5, but if you compare it to the NHL or KHL there is some difference. And maybe its not fair to compare football and hockey leagues because there is more football leagues in the world for sure...
I'm PRETTY sure countries haven't banned hockey, so this is a silly point. There's a reason why there are TONS more football leagues, half the world barely knows what hockey is.


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10-31-2011, 07:50 AM
  #127
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I'm PRETTY sure countries haven't banned hockey, so this is a silly point. There's a reason why there are TONS more football leagues, half the world barely knows what hockey is.
I ment that if comparing example top5 football leagues around the world they are much or less same, there is not so big difference between them. But in hockey there is NHL or maybe even KHL in league of their own. And i'm sure you know that the reason why football is bigger sport is not because its more entertaining or better for the audience

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10-31-2011, 09:22 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by hahahaa View Post
I ment that if comparing example top5 football leagues around the world they are much or less same, there is not so big difference between them. But in hockey there is NHL or maybe even KHL in league of their own. And i'm sure you know that the reason why football is bigger sport is not because its more entertaining or better for the audience
That's your opinion, (it's mine too, but still, it's opinions). The NHL is a clear step above the rest, so is KHL, after that comes Sweden and Finland, sometimes Sweden is better, sometimes Finland is better.

In football, EPL is clearly the best league, with La Liga and Serie A being close seconds (closer to EPL than KHL is to NHL), then Bundesliga is a step behind those.

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12-02-2011, 10:24 AM
  #129
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well Nottingham arena are having to put on more development and beginner sessions for hockey now, and have apparently seen a large rise in adults wanting to play in the last year.

Small sample size as it's just one city, but it is still encouraging to know.

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12-04-2011, 09:31 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
In football, EPL is clearly the best league, with La Liga and Serie A being close seconds (closer to EPL than KHL is to NHL), then Bundesliga is a step behind those.
1.EPL
2.La Liga
3.Bundesliga

we wont get into that right now though(FC Bayern München!)

=========

Anyone think we will ever see a challenge between KHL and NHL winners? there are quite a few great coaches and players in the KHL

I would love to see more international club hockey

the European Club tournament they had in august felt like more of a pre season warm up.

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12-05-2011, 12:03 AM
  #131
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That because that is exactly what European Trophy is, a pre-season tournament and thats why its not taken that serious right now. Though they are moving in the right direction with the finals to be played at this up-coming International break.

The people in charge of ET have said they want to start moving the tournament away from being a pre-season to having the matches during the International breaks and unnamed clubs have supported the idea. My biggest problem with the tournament is Red Bull Salzburg free pass. (I wont get into the exclusion of KHL clubs, its a Western tournament, Im fine with it that way, if they want to invite KHL clubs, cool but it dosnt matter that much to me)

As for KHL-NHL, the Champions playing sometime in the near future, highly doubtful, down the road, possibly.

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12-05-2011, 10:37 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Elverpond View Post
1.EPL
2.La Liga
3.Bundesliga

we wont get into that right now though(FC Bayern München!)


=========

Anyone think we will ever see a challenge between KHL and NHL winners? there are quite a few great coaches and players in the KHL

I would love to see more international club hockey

the European Club tournament they had in august felt like more of a pre season warm up.
No. 1 team does not make a league, thank you.

After this CL season we can talk.

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12-06-2011, 12:27 AM
  #133
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Hahah! ok jonimaus again, we won't get into that. but y'know it's all in good fun.

KHL is not budging in their position that they should be on par with the NHL, if they get enough investors and can convince young russian players to play in the KHL and be a star in their own country.
Imagine if Ovechkin was lured away at an early age to play in Moscow, might be a tad far off from that situation happening, but when it does eventually happen and it will. the NHL will take the KHL seriously.

Again Champions League Football is so fun to watch I dont know why we cant replicate that in hockey.

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12-06-2011, 08:21 AM
  #134
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Again Champions League Football is so fun to watch I dont know why we cant replicate that in hockey.
You know football is a pretty popular sport.

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12-06-2011, 10:29 AM
  #135
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You know football is a pretty popular sport.
It probably starts and ends with that. Football is religion in many European countries, and because of that, UEFA really powerful and can offer tons of price money. So not only are the teams competing about which is the best in the world (noone takes the "World cup for clubs" seriously), they also win a ton of money.

This concept is also very very old in football, and there is rivalry between the clubs now. If my hockey club were up against some German club I don't care too much, because I have no idea what club that is and I don't care about it.

However if my favourite football team (Milan) goes up against Barcelona or Man U, I go nuts.

There has to be passion and money, otherwise clubs will use it as practice.

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12-08-2011, 06:23 AM
  #136
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Again Champions League Football is so fun to watch I dont know why we cant replicate that in hockey.
Champions League football is pretty boring. It's always the same teams playing (not to mention their bandwagon fans). The old champions cup was so much more fun, as is the Europa league.

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12-08-2011, 06:52 AM
  #137
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Playoff format in Uefa Champions league is pretty brutal since a away goal rule leads to numberous 0-0 draws. I would much prefer them to play best 3 series similar to hockey but that would never happen.

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12-19-2011, 07:21 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Hockey works in Europe. Not sure why this rather ignorant misconception of hockey being small in Europe exists. Outside of Football, it is arguably the 2nd biggest team sport in Europe. If it isn't 2nd, it is certainly close. It's popular in a number of countries. People seem to have this concept that for a sport to be defined as popular and mainstream it has to be popular everywhere. This simple isn't the case. The only sport which is popular continent wide is Football. \
Yeah, but basketball is very popular in big countries like France, Spain, Italy, Germany... not as popular as hockey in Germany but much more popular than hockey in other countries. Also ex-Yugoslavia, Latvia (nr.2 after hockey) and Lithuania.

The only big country where hockey has significan presence is Russia (nr.2 sport after football)... you could also count in Germany but to a lesser extent.

I'd still say basketball is bigger in Europe but hockey would be nr.3... But football indeed rules, even in Latvia where, at least among Latvian population it is nr.3 sport, we follow it (though mostly only NT and foreign top leagues). And participation wise I don't know but it still might be bigger than even basketball.

Actually it's kinda hard for Latvia with these three sports- hockey is by far the most popular in press, in conversations, Dinamo Riga is the biggest club etc. but basketball is played by everybody, the youth system there is the best and there are numerous leagues in the country to play for (and what's funny, we have NBA draft 1st rounder and 2nd rounder in the last few years while we're still waiting for NHL 1st rounder and other talents do not appear too that much) but the national league is most developed and most stable in football. And contrary to basketball and hockey, even 2nd football league gets some increased interest of people while nobody cares about basketball 2nd best league or hockey's best league


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07-19-2012, 12:53 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Elverpond View Post
Again Champions League Football is so fun to watch I dont know why we cant replicate that in hockey.
I think they did have one season of champion style league experiment, but due to the economy of 2008-2010 it was cancelled.

E: Seems that IIHF wants to bring it back, but the leagues and teams have little interest.

Also has there been any development anywhere? I'm looking closely at Southern Europe because the potential at that region seems outstanding.

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07-19-2012, 01:05 PM
  #140
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I think they did have one season of champion style league experiment, but due to the economy of 2008-2010 it was cancelled.

E: Seems that IIHF wants to bring it back, but the leagues and teams have little interest.

Also has there been any development anywhere? I'm looking closely at Southern Europe because the potential at that region seems outstanding.
Define "Southern Europe" and "outstanding".

Nice bump by the way...

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07-19-2012, 01:51 PM
  #141
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Define "Southern Europe" and "outstanding".

Nice bump by the way...
1) Southeastern Europe. (Slovenia, Croatia, Hungry, Serbia, Romania, etc.)

2) Asking a question for the people who live there and my opinion about that potential.

3) Hard to bump when it's still on the first page, nice try brah.

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07-19-2012, 01:51 PM
  #142
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Define "Southern Europe" and "outstanding".

Nice bump by the way...
I think southern Europe means the Balkans; Croatia, Serbia etc.

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07-20-2012, 08:53 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
1) Southeastern Europe. (Slovenia, Croatia, Hungry, Serbia, Romania, etc.)

2) Asking a question for the people who live there and my opinion about that potential.

3) Hard to bump when it's still on the first page, nice try brah.
6 month old thread!

And I don't see "outstanding" potential in those countries. Football reigns supreme and there's few ice rinks, hockey is a very expensive sport and those countries aren't doing that well economically (on the other hand, few are these days).

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07-21-2012, 07:58 AM
  #144
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6 month old thread!

And I don't see "outstanding" potential in those countries. Football reigns supreme and there's few ice rinks, hockey is a very expensive sport and those countries aren't doing that well economically (on the other hand, few are these days).
I wouldn't be so sure. The IIHF produced a world junior ranking based on the past 2 years of U20 and U18 tournaments and compared with the senior rankings, to see the future growth in each country:

http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...ash=1a0a78a1ba

As you can see, Slovenia are up 5 places from their senior ranking, and Croatia are +6. Clearly there is potential in that area, as they are the two biggest risers.

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07-21-2012, 09:15 AM
  #145
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I wouldn't be so sure. The IIHF produced a world junior ranking based on the past 2 years of U20 and U18 tournaments and compared with the senior rankings, to see the future growth in each country:

http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...ash=1a0a78a1ba

As you can see, Slovenia are up 5 places from their senior ranking, and Croatia are +6. Clearly there is potential in that area, as they are the two biggest risers.
I think that +6 is for U20. Sure, our U20 team is "miracle on ice" for last couple of seasons, first we promoted to Div1 and then stayed there for three years in a row, but that is more exception than rule. We have had many players who left Croatia in early age and went to play in bigger nations. Now they are slowly "retiring" (becoming too old for U20) and when goalie Tomljenovic becomes too old for U20, we will be knocked down, not in D2A, but in D2B within two years. Our hockey development is non existant, youth coaches main preoccupation is too collect money from parents.

Medvescak is doing great job in EBEL, and is strong candidat to enter KHL, but it's success is based on players from all over the europe and NA with Croat origins and imports.

So, Croatia is little odd case. We have good possibility to have club in KHL and in other hand we don't have a system who can produce even regular 4th liner (10-12-15 points) for EBEL.

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07-21-2012, 12:41 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by croAVSfan View Post
I think that +6 is for U20. Sure, our U20 team is "miracle on ice" for last couple of seasons, first we promoted to Div1 and then stayed there for three years in a row, but that is more exception than rule. We have had many players who left Croatia in early age and went to play in bigger nations. Now they are slowly "retiring" (becoming too old for U20) and when goalie Tomljenovic becomes too old for U20, we will be knocked down, not in D2A, but in D2B within two years. Our hockey development is non existant, youth coaches main preoccupation is too collect money from parents.

Medvescak is doing great job in EBEL, and is strong candidat to enter KHL, but it's success is based on players from all over the europe and NA with Croat origins and imports.

So, Croatia is little odd case. We have good possibility to have club in KHL and in other hand we don't have a system who can produce even regular 4th liner (10-12-15 points) for EBEL.
So basically what you are saying is the past couple of years has been a strong class of players and the talent is dropping off in the future?

Hopefully the success of Medvescak in the EBEL and possibility of joining KHL will attract more fans and get more kids interested in playing.

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07-21-2012, 01:09 PM
  #147
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So basically what you are saying is the past couple of years has been a strong class of players and the talent is dropping off in the future?

Hopefully the success of Medvescak in the EBEL and possibility of joining KHL will attract more fans and get more kids interested in playing.
Yes, there were strong class of players, who were talented enough, but whose parents were financialy strong enough to paid them their play abroad.

There are two main problems in Croatia. First is lack of infrastructure. We have only ONE ice rink that is just and only for ice hockey and ice sports overall. Then there is "Dom Sportova" (Home of Sports), primarly built for ice hockey, but could host other events as well. After Medvescak joined EBEL, many kids came to play hockey but now we have problem of not having enough ice for all of them. Then second problem is coaches. Not educated enough, but much worse is they don't care, only thing important to them is to get money from parents. Imagine how "good" our coaches are when they are playing with two lines in categories U14 and U16...that is just one of many examples.

So, two main tasks to improve our hockey : 1.) Built new rinks
2.) Get foregin coaches for youths (even more important than no1.)

With fans we have no problems. Medvescak is in top20 clubs by attendance in Europe

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07-21-2012, 04:21 PM
  #148
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Sounds like similar problems to us in Great Britain then, except coaches trying to get money from the parents. Over here it is more the rinks trying to get money from the teams, the joke of a company that runs most of them charges stupid money for ice time, and do not care about the facilities at the rink, for example bad ice and no working showers. They even got in trouble for not paying their taxes, which says it all really.

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07-24-2012, 12:37 AM
  #149
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I think it's pretty irrelevant how strong hockey is relatively to football, no team sport can compete with football in Europe or globally. The important thing is that hockey gains ground behind football and that's what you can strive for.

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07-24-2012, 05:31 AM
  #150
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How to you determinate growth in each countries here?

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