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2012-13 is a transition year. Bergevin is focusing on 2013-14.

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Old
07-19-2012, 02:25 PM
  #126
danyhabsfan
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If we still have Gomez in the lineup Id call Desharnais this summer and tell him he might play LW. He's the only one that could play wing because his IQ is off the chart.

Gomez could take advantage of slow 3rd pairing guys.

Desharnais Eller Cole
Pacioretty Plekanec Gionta
Bourque Gomez Armstrong/Moen/Prust
Armstrong/Moen/Prust White Armstrong/Moen/Prust
Nokelainen

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:22 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
This post made me **** blood.
What else did you think was going to happen?

If Gomez is playing, it's almost a given Gionta will be on his line and Gomez has always got 2nd line duties since he got here, why will things be different now.

Nobody wants this to happen but until Gomez leaves thats the way it will probably roll. Maybe it's better if you get some of the angst and anger out of your system before the season starts.

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:44 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by danyhabsfan View Post
If we still have Gomez in the lineup Id call Desharnais this summer and tell him he might play LW. He's the only one that could play wing because his IQ is off the chart.

Gomez could take advantage of slow 3rd pairing guys.

Desharnais Eller Cole
Pacioretty Plekanec Gionta

Bourque Gomez Armstrong/Moen/Prust
Armstrong/Moen/Prust White Armstrong/Moen/Prust
Nokelainen
I think that provides the most balanced top 6 with the players the Habs currently have. I think Desharnais could put up a lot of points on the wing without the defensive responsibilities of playing center. I'd like to see Moen and Prust on the same line, would be a good energy line that is also good defensively.

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:45 PM
  #129
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The year we challenge won't be 2013-2014. It'll be 2014-2015.

Joining the line-up (4):
Galchenyuk
Tinordi
Collberg
Beaulieu

(I haven't included Gallagher, Bournival and Leblanc because those four are the most highly ranked in our prospect pool and have a higher chance of making the big team. That also makes these three guys likely available for moves if those four reach their potential.)

Coming off the books (5):
Gomez
Gionta
Kaberle
Markov
Diaz

By 2014-15, we'll likely pick up 3 key pieces in the mean time via trade or UFA. That makes 8 in and 5 out.

The 3 additional guys who'll likely move out include:

Bourque
Armstrong
Nokelainen

How does our lineup look?

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Desharnais / Collberg
x - Plekanec - Cole
Moen - Eller - Leblanc
Prust - x - White

x - Subban
Tinordi - Beaulieu
Emelin - Gorges

Price

There are two significant positions that we need to strengthen. We need a #2 defenseman and a left wing sniper. Considering the cap space we'll have, that room has to go to bonafide top-tier talent.

We have so much talent in the pipeline that doesn't fit into the model above. We have great players, but lack a few superstars. We need to trade the players, picks or make the signings to make sure we're there in 2014-15. That's our year.

Imagine a Bobby Ryan and Shea Weber in that lineup.

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Old
07-19-2012, 05:57 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
The year we challenge won't be 2013-2014. It'll be 2014-2015.

Joining the line-up (4):
Galchenyuk
Tinordi
Collberg
Beaulieu

(I haven't included Gallagher, Bournival and Leblanc because those four are the most highly ranked in our prospect pool and have a higher chance of making the big team. That also makes these three guys likely available for moves if those four reach their potential.)

Coming off the books (5):
Gomez
Gionta
Kaberle
Markov
Diaz

By 2014-15, we'll likely pick up 3 key pieces in the mean time via trade or UFA. That makes 8 in and 5 out.

The 3 additional guys who'll likely move out include:

Bourque
Armstrong
Nokelainen

How does our lineup look?

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Desharnais / Collberg
x - Plekanec - Cole
Moen - Eller - Leblanc
Prust - x - White

x - Subban
Tinordi - Beaulieu
Emelin - Gorges

Price

There are two significant positions that we need to strengthen. We need a #2 defenseman and a left wing sniper. Considering the cap space we'll have, that room has to go to bonafide top-tier talent.

We have so much talent in the pipeline that doesn't fit into the model above. We have great players, but lack a few superstars. We need to trade the players, picks or make the signings to make sure we're there in 2014-15. That's our year.

Imagine a Bobby Ryan and Shea Weber in that lineup.
Weber just got too expensive. Ryan could be the last piece to complete a great 1st line with Galchenyuk and Pacioretty. Let's not forget the draft. We could find a potential star in 2013 and some solid contributors.

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Old
07-19-2012, 05:59 PM
  #131
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how to win now and set us up for the future...

*assuming Nashville does not match

To Nash
Bourque
Kaberle
Geoffrion

To Mtl
Philly 2013 1st
________________________

To Phoenix
Gomez
Palushaj

To Mtl
2013 3rd
_________________________


sign Doan 3years/5.5M$ per
sign Semin 4 years/6.5M$ per



2012-2013

Doan - Pleks - Gionta
MaxPac - DD - Semin
Cole - Eller - Armstrong
Moen - White - Prust
Noke

Subban - Gorges
Emelin - Markov
Diaz/Weber - Bouillion
Diaz/Weber

Price
Budaj


2013-2014

Doan - Pleks - Gionta
MaxPac - Gally - Semin
Cole - Eller/DD - Gallgaher/Kristo/Leblanc
Moen - White - Prust
Bournival

Subban - Gorges
Emelin - Markov
Diaz/Weber - Tinordi/Beaulieu/Ellis
Diaz/Weber

Price
?


2014-2015
MaxPac - Gally - Semin
Cole - Eller/DD - Gallagher/Kristo/Colberg
Doan - Pleks - Leblanc
Moen - White/Bournival - Prust

Subban - Gorges
Emelin -
Diaz/Weber/Tinordi/Beaulieu/Ellis/Thrower/Dietz/Bennett/Pateryn/Nash

Price
?


with 7 picks in the first 3 rounds for 2013, we further stack our prospect pool, while also giving us great ammunition for deadline additions as needed due to injuries/roster needs.

that's a roster that can compete for the next 3 years, while also giving ample time for young talent to develop patiently in the AHL.

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:01 PM
  #132
Habruti!
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Here is what i would do with this lineup....

I think this team needs quite a shake up to move into a consistant contender role... If we see that Gallchenyuk s progression is as expected then perhaps a few trades could be made... Now lets assume that Eller has a fantastic season then perhaps one of him our Plekanek becomes expandable...

Bourque, Plekanec and first in 2013 might fetch us Rick Nash...

Then we start the 2013 season with

Nash, Gallchenyuk, Leblanc
Pacs, Desharnais, Cole
Moen, Eller, Gionta
Prust, white, gallagher

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Old
07-20-2012, 05:51 AM
  #133
baldrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitant le colon View Post
Therrien will give the team to kids ... not to those who wish to own it !!
The coach will do what the GM tells him to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
Wait what? Not only Gomez is in the line-up but he's playing on the 2nd line while Plekanec, who has more points last season than Gomez's last 2 seasons COMBINED will be centering the third/checking line?
This is what I believe will happen,not what I would like to see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Thats a really nice mentality. Bring the rest down so the incompetent looks better.
See above response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
This post made me **** blood.
Next season is going to be a long one for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Dear God, people! It may be contagious!!

We have to prevent it from spreading. Vsevolod Bobrov, I hope you know what you should do to maintain quarantine.

If you start seeing a benefit putting Gomez on the 2nd line, put a bullet through your head. It's the only way to be sure.
Again.See above response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
What else did you think was going to happen?

If Gomez is playing, it's almost a given Gionta will be on his line and Gomez has always got 2nd line duties since he got here, why will things be different now.

Nobody wants this to happen but until Gomez leaves thats the way it will probably roll. Maybe it's better if you get some of the angst and anger out of your system before the season starts.
Exactly!

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Old
07-20-2012, 08:23 AM
  #134
Ghetto Sangria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
The coach will do what the GM tells him to do.



This is what I believe will happen,not what I would like to see.



See above response.



Next season is going to be a long one for you.



Again.See above response.



Exactly!
Actually I totally disagree. Why would things change? How about a new management team and new coach, who said countless times on L'antichambre that he hates Gomez and how much ice time this guy got that he never deserved. I think things will change drastically this season in terms of Gomez's usage.

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Old
07-20-2012, 03:39 PM
  #135
Vsevolod Bobrov
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Wtf is going on here. DD on wing ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
how to win now and set us up for the future...

*assuming Nashville does not match

To Nash
Bourque
Kaberle
Geoffrion

To Mtl
Philly 2013 1st
________________________

To Phoenix
Gomez
Palushaj

To Mtl
2013 3rd
_________________________


sign Doan 3years/5.5M$ per
sign Semin 4 years/6.5M$ per
For the love of Mary mother of God. Bourque and Kaberle for a 1st ? Gomez to Phoenix ?

Holy crack. Why do you even bother thinking about stuff like this ?

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Old
07-20-2012, 03:55 PM
  #136
Teufelsdreck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
how to win now and set us up for the future...

*assuming Nashville does not match

To Nash
Bourque
Kaberle
Geoffrion

To Mtl
Philly 2013 1st
________________________

To Phoenix
Gomez
Palushaj

To Mtl
2013 3rd
_________________________


sign Doan 3years/5.5M$ per
sign Semin 4 years/6.5M$ per



2012-2013

Doan - Pleks - Gionta
MaxPac - DD - Semin
Cole - Eller - Armstrong
Moen - White - Prust
Noke

Subban - Gorges
Emelin - Markov
Diaz/Weber - Bouillion
Diaz/Weber

Price
Budaj


2013-2014

Doan - Pleks - Gionta
MaxPac - Gally - Semin
Cole - Eller/DD - Gallgaher/Kristo/Leblanc
Moen - White - Prust
Bournival

Subban - Gorges
Emelin - Markov
Diaz/Weber - Tinordi/Beaulieu/Ellis
Diaz/Weber

Price
?


2014-2015
MaxPac - Gally - Semin
Cole - Eller/DD - Gallagher/Kristo/Colberg
Doan - Pleks - Leblanc
Moen - White/Bournival - Prust

Subban - Gorges
Emelin -
Diaz/Weber/Tinordi/Beaulieu/Ellis/Thrower/Dietz/Bennett/Pateryn/Nash

Price
?


with 7 picks in the first 3 rounds for 2013, we further stack our prospect pool, while also giving us great ammunition for deadline additions as needed due to injuries/roster needs.

that's a roster that can compete for the next 3 years, while also giving ample time for young talent to develop patiently in the AHL.
You're making all these hypothetical trades that blatantly favor the Habs? It's like playing chess with yourself and inflicting questionable moves on your hapless alter ego.

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Old
07-20-2012, 05:12 PM
  #137
Drive425
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So sticking to the speculation theme. What do you think about Ek saying Habs are one of the teams looking to offer sheet E Kane? Wonder what it would cost??

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Old
07-20-2012, 05:59 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
So sticking to the speculation theme. What do you think about Ek saying Habs are one of the teams looking to offer sheet E Kane? Wonder what it would cost??
It would either be: (1 1st) or (2 1st) and a 2nd, and a 3rd.

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Old
07-21-2012, 09:20 AM
  #139
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So sticking to the speculation theme. What do you think about Ek saying Habs are one of the teams looking to offer sheet E Kane? Wonder what it would cost??
I doubt they offer sheet anyone, though I'm not against it. But they better get Subban locked up before they offer sheet anyone. Plus, don't let Pacioretty hit July 1 next year.

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Old
07-21-2012, 09:27 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
The more I think about it, the more I believe Bergevin won't make any other significant move this summer (unless he can win the race for someone like Nash or Ryan, which I doubt). Why? Because next year will be a "transition" season.

I see the moves he made so far, and I don't see any major improvement from last year. Sure, our bottom 6 is more intimidating, but that won't make the team win many more games. I expect the team to do slightly better than last year because they can't do worse, but I don't expect a significant improvement. Why?

- The top 6 is really much weaker than the top 10 teams in the league.
- Our bottom 6 is tough but cannot contribute much offensively.
- Our defense corp is solid, but with a few question marks because of lack of experience (Emelin, Diaz, Weber) and injuries (Markov).

I'm sure Bergevin and the whole management are aware of all that. I actually think they will leave the team like that on purpose. Why?

- Because they are waiting for the big annoying contracts to end (Gomez, Kaberle, Bourque). Or not necessarily to end, but at less to have one less year left so they become easier to buy out, bury in the minor or trade.

- Because the prospects are not ready yet. Many of them will begin their pro career in the AHL while a player like Galchenyuk will need one more year in the OHL. Maybe it's not a good idea to acquire an expensive UFA or player on a long term contract via trade at this point, since it would leave no spot open for the youngsters next year. I think we can expect players like Leblanc, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Bournival, Kristo, Beaulieu, Tinordi and Ellis to earn a spot or compete for a spot in the NHL roster as soon as 2013-14.

- Because Pacioretty and Desharnais will need to be re-signed next year. Both will get big raises, so it makes sense to leave some space under the cap.

- Because all of those considered to be the "extra players" are on one year contracts. Here I'm talking about Nokelainen, Armstrong, Geoffrion, Palushaj, Blunden, Bouillon, Weber, St-Denis and Nash. I think none of these players belong in the long term plans (unless they impress greatly this year). Clearly, most of these players will be released next summer and replaced by prospects.

- And most importantly, because it's "YEAR 1" of the Bergevin/Therrien regime. No matter how bad the team does next year, they can't do worse and they will be granted a free pass. If there's a moment when a team can afford to be in a "transition year", it's on Year One of a new regime. Therefore, that would also mean the Habs would get a high pick in a next draft, a draft where players from Quebec are expected to do well. Adding another high end prospect certainly wouldn't hurt.

- I could add that there could be a strike or lock-out this year. One more reason to make a gamble and don't invest too much for 2012-13.

So while I expect some exciting games next year, I won't be deceived if they still get bad results. I actually expect it. My eyes and hopes are already turned toward 2013-14, and I'm pretty sure that Bergevin and his staff are focusing on this too.

P.S. Mods, feel free to merge if you think that doesn't deserve its own thread.
I think the second Michel Therrien regime will a short one.

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Old
07-22-2012, 06:05 AM
  #141
baldrick
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Actually I totally disagree. Why would things change? How about a new management team and new coach, who said countless times on L'antichambre that he hates Gomez and how much ice time this guy got that he never deserved. I think things will change drastically this season in terms of Gomez's usage.
Unaffiliated to any team he can say whatever he wants on a sports program but it's a different matter when he receives instructions from his GM.I'm basing the lineup by Bergevin's comments that people need to be patient,let contracts run their course,Gomez is part of the team etc... There are many possible scenarios depending upon the new CBA and how the next season progresses but I expect Gomez to be given the same icetime to start the season,after that who knows.

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Old
07-22-2012, 09:38 AM
  #142
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Bergevin get rid of kaberle,gomez and bourque otherwise you have been a complete failure,the salary cap floor is going to be around 54 million,nashville is at 40.8,phoenix at44.8,islanders at 47.7,panthers at 48.5,hurricanes at 50.2,senators at 50.5 and jets at 50.8 these teams have to trade for players or sign players to get to the floor.

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07-22-2012, 09:44 AM
  #143
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Everybody be happy when the Habs draft the next french star in Jonathon Drouin.

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07-22-2012, 09:52 AM
  #144
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Everybody be happy when the Habs draft the next french star in Jonathon Drouin.
That would basically put the Habs close to the playoffs (or in the first round).

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07-22-2012, 10:33 AM
  #145
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Everybody be happy when the Habs draft the next french star in Jonathon Drouin.
I'd be happier with MacKinnon.

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07-22-2012, 11:38 AM
  #146
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I can't see anyone offersheeting Evander Kane.

The Winipeg Jets are owned by Kenneth Thompson, who I am pretty sure is the richest owner in the league.

However, if we offersheet Evander Kane, we should trade Tomas Plekanec and spare parts for Patrick Kane, so we cann have a Kane-Kane first line.

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Old
07-22-2012, 11:44 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
The year we challenge won't be 2013-2014. It'll be 2014-2015.
I don't think there's any chance Bergevin is thinking this way. For one thing, the Moen contract. The way I see things, the good, safe years of the deal are his 30 and 31 year old seasons. The 32 and 33 year old seasons are a concession to the player. If Bergevin's plan was to build towards 2014-15, he wouldn't have made the deal.

The other tell would be, if the plan was to build towards 2014-15, Cole would be on the market. 14-15 will be his 36 year old season. After his career year, I bet he could fetch a very good, younger player in return.

Finally, Eller, Emelin and Diaz all signed 2 year contracts. If the plan was to build towards 2014-15, I'd think Bergevin would pursue 3 year contracts for his relatively young players. Instead, he's hoping they will be bargains that will give him more flexibility in 2013-14.

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07-22-2012, 11:45 AM
  #148
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I'd be happier with MacKinnon.
I hope we play the season next year. We have a better shot at McKinnon then if there's a lockout.

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07-22-2012, 11:46 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I don't think there's any chance Bergevin is thinking this way. For one thing, the Moen contract. The way I see things, the good, safe years of the deal are his 30 and 31 year old seasons. The 32 and 33 year old seasons are a concession to the player. If Bergevin's plan was to build towards 2014-15, he wouldn't have made the deal.

The other tell would be, if the plan was to build towards 2014-15, Cole would be on the market. 14-15 will be his 36 year old season. After his career year, I bet he could fetch a very good, younger player in return.

Finally, Eller, Emelin and Diaz all signed 2 year contracts. If the plan was to build towards 2014-15, I'd think Bergevin would pursue 3 year contracts for his relatively young players. Instead, he's hoping they will be bargains that will give him more flexibility in 2013-14.
Moen is the type of guy you want if you're rebuilding. He's versatile.

Think back to the Moen-Eller-AK46 line. It was great for Eller. In contrast, a Palushaj-Leblanc-Eller line would be a disaster for all three.

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07-22-2012, 11:53 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Moen is the type of guy you want if you're rebuilding. He's versatile.

Think back to the Moen-Eller-AK46 line. It was great for Eller. In contrast, a Palushaj-Leblanc-Eller line would be a disaster for all three.
I totally agree with end of your post, Moen is a useful veteran. I'm glad to have him in the lineup next season instead of a rookie. But what are the odds that 32 year old Moen will be the same player? If Bergevin was buiding towards 2014-15, wouldn't the smart play be to patch that spot over a shorter term, and find a 28 year old version in a couple of years? There are still plenty of veteran forwards available who will be signing shorter deals.

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