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Flyers sign Shea Weber to 14-year offer sheet ($7.857M Cap Hit) (Pt V)
No. This is completely a money issue for Nashville. Acquiring Voracek isn't going to be the difference between them signing that big check or not - that's a sign to me that they're just trying to get what they can. I stand firm and make them sign the deal if they want to keep him.
If they want to do Mesz, Voracek, 2013 #1, 2015 #1, then fine (in my opinion).
I pretty much agree with this, my gut feeling is you take the chance and wait it out, and bank on them not matching. I can't really see a scenario where they can afford to match and still let him walk.
Not just that, but there will be NO NTC/NMC to his contract if he gets traded from Nashville to say NY... then NY in 10 years decides to trade him off (still a top pairing defenceman) for a great package to a team struggling. Everybody super happy.
Yep, here's how I think it will play out:
Unless Poile can arrange for a satisfactory return, then he matches and keeps Weber until the end of the 2013-2014 season. Why then? Because if he traded him on August 1, 2013, he'll have paid 27M for one season. If he trades him after the 2013-2014 season, then he pays 28M for two seasons.
Poile will have 29 suitors, and he'll trade Weber to the highest bidder. Some teams may be shy about offering so much because Weber might not be professional if traded there (i.e., he'll whine), but, with 29 potential suitors, Poile will get what he wants, and it will be a heck of a lot more than he was hoping to get from Philly yesterday.
The team that acquires Weber will look to move him once he leaves his prime and his skills start to diminish. With a cap hit of close to 8M and an annual salary averaging 2M after he hits 35, that team will have every cash strapped team that struggles to get to the cap floor making an offer.
Thing is, I'll bet you Weber knew this the day he signed Philly's offer sheet. So, why did he do it? Because, if he waits until the CBA expires, then odds are he gets a deal nowhere near as good as he's getting now.
BTW, as noted earlier, Holmgren wins too, even though I think he expects Nashville to match in the end, because AT WORST he makes sure Weber didn't end up in New York this offseason.
But it wouldn't make sense for Nashville to swallow the two hardest years, then move him when his annual value goes down below $7M/year.
You're acting like he won't actually be playing for Nashville for those two years. If they get one of their prospects to step it up they're still a playoff team. It's not balancing 4 late 1sts vs Weber, it's balancing 4 late 1sts vs 1-2 years of Weber and how the team does then IF NECESSARY the trade return for Weber on a long term prime contract (which will likely be > Philly's 4 1sts). Nashville just has to decide if that 26M is worth it.
I posted this in a different thread and didn't get a reply so, I may be wrong but aren't you not allowed to trade draft picks farther than 2 years in the future? It could be different in this situtation and I may be wrong but just wondering?
I'm not sure.. But this is in the CBA so it's good
from a realistic point of view i would expect Poile would look for a group of vets and youth. we have the youth covered but i dont believe we would be able to offer up the established guys. I suspect we would not be able to make the best offer without completely gutting our team.
But whoever gets him gets the best contract player in the league.
and they pay far more than 4 unknowns over 4 years. nashville will not survive 4 years.
You're forgetting something. Poile won't be trading him the day he matches. He'll be trading him no earlier than the end of the 2013-2014 season. Your young players will be two years older.
Unless Poile can arrange for a satisfactory return, then he matches and keeps Weber until the end of the 2013-2014 season. Why then? Because if he traded him on August 1, 2013, he'll have paid 27M for one season. If he trades him after the 2013-2014 season, then he pays 28M for two seasons.
Poile will have 29 suitors, and he'll trade Weber to the highest bidder. Some teams may be shy about offering so much because Weber might not be professional if traded there (i.e., he'll whine), but, with 29 potential suitors, Poile will get what he wants, and it will be a heck of a lot more than he was hoping to get from Philly yesterday.
The team that acquires Weber will look to move him once he leaves his prime and his skills start to diminish. With a cap hit of close to 8M and an annual salary averaging 2M after he hits 35, that team will have every cash strapped team that struggles to get to the cap floor making an offer.
Thing is, I'll bet you Weber knew this the day he signed Philly's offer sheet. So, why did he do it? Because, if he waits until the CBA expires, then odds are he gets a deal nowhere near as good as he's getting now.
BTW, as noted earlier, Holmgren wins too, even though I think he expects Nashville to match in the end, because AT WORST he makes sure Weber didn't end up in New York this offseason.
I don't know why you keep thinking they will trade Weber. If nashville matches they keep him. There is no way the owners and investors are going to pay all that money in the first 2 years and trade him away. Especially with the deal being good after they pay all the money.
I find it truly disgraceful signing an offer sheet with a team then telling your current team you don't want to play there. You exercise your rights, they will exercise theirs. If I'm Nashville I match it then tell him, look you tried to screw us over, now we keep you until the end of time. If he doesn't want to suit up and honour his contract then there's no signing bonuses anytime in the future.
they didn't break the nhl,but they just might have killed the fanchise in nashville with this offersheet(if the preds don't match),Thanks flyers,you really are the most hated team in the nhl
Maybe....just maybe you should blame your GM. Maybe he should have signed Weber and Suter to long term deals last year. Or thru this year. He is the one that allowed Suter to go for nothing and for having Weber in a position to sign an offersheet. Remember...Philly just lost Jagr and Carle for nothing. That is the the chance you take.
You're acting like he won't actually be playing for Nashville for those two years. If they get one of their prospects to step it up they're still a playoff team. It's not balancing 4 late 1sts vs Weber, it's balancing 4 late 1sts vs 1-2 years of Weber and how the team does then IF NECESSARY the trade return for Weber on a long term prime contract (which will likely be > Philly's 4 1sts). Nashville just has to decide if that 26M is worth it.
For an internal budget team that is highly unlikely they waste that money.
Well, yeah, a team might be reticent to trade for him a year or two after Nashville matches because Weber might whine. BUT, I don't think that will prevent Poile from getting a king's ransom.
Weber gave up his right to talk when he chose not to go to UFA.
Signing an offer sheet does not indicate that Weber wants out anymore than Joe Sakic wanted out of Colorado.
Weber wants to get paid. If he wanted out of Nashville, he would have just signed a one year deal and gone to UFA. Or he would have let Nashville trade him.
For the rest of your post, I don't know enough about the various teams in the West, so I guess I'll say I agree. Maybe the Preds should consider letting Weber go and starting a rebuild.
But that would completely fly in the face of the recent progress they have made with the fans and on ice success.
Maybe Weber wants to get paid AND get out of Nashville.
I agree with everything you said up until the "pay him the 2 crazy years, then trade him when his contract becomes a bargain" part. Then also the "move Schenn/Couturier for Ryan" part.
I was being facetious with the Ryan part.
As for the other part, I think Nashville matches and either pays the 28M for two seasons OR the 91M for 8 seasons. From a numbers and asset management perspective, that makes infinitely more sense than taking four (late) first round picks.
Hey, they may not match, and it was worth it for Homer to take the shot because, as I said, the worst outcome from him is that he kept Weber from being traded to a place like New York.
Unless Poile can arrange for a satisfactory return, then he matches and keeps Weber until the end of the 2013-2014 season. Why then? Because if he traded him on August 1, 2013, he'll have paid 27M for one season. If he trades him after the 2013-2014 season, then he pays 28M for two seasons.
Poile will have 29 suitors, and he'll trade Weber to the highest bidder. Some teams may be shy about offering so much because Weber might not be professional if traded there (i.e., he'll whine), but, with 29 potential suitors, Poile will get what he wants, and it will be a heck of a lot more than he was hoping to get from Philly yesterday.
The team that acquires Weber will look to move him once he leaves his prime and his skills start to diminish. With a cap hit of close to 8M and an annual salary averaging 2M after he hits 35, that team will have every cash strapped team that struggles to get to the cap floor making an offer.
Thing is, I'll bet you Weber knew this the day he signed Philly's offer sheet. So, why did he do it? Because, if he waits until the CBA expires, then odds are he gets a deal nowhere near as good as he's getting now.
BTW, as noted earlier, Holmgren wins too, even though I think he expects Nashville to match in the end, because AT WORST he makes sure Weber didn't end up in New York this offseason.
But hear's the question I have with this:
Why does Nashville want to trade a 28-year old Shea Weber when they have him on a 12 year, $82M deal that every team in the league would like to have? At that point they'll have 2 years to turn themselves into a legit contender and they'll what Weber there to lead that charge.
If they sign him and bite the financial bullet, they'll want to keep him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM
You're acting like he won't actually be playing for Nashville for those two years. If they get one of their prospects to step it up they're still a playoff team. It's not balancing 4 late 1sts vs Weber, it's balancing 4 late 1sts vs 1-2 years of Weber and how the team does then IF NECESSARY the trade return for Weber on a long term prime contract (which will likely be > Philly's 4 1sts). Nashville just has to decide if that 26M is worth it.
I don't know what you're talking about. My argument is that if they swallow the 2 tough years, they won't move him once the contract gets to be a bargain.
I don't know why you keep thinking they will trade Weber. If nashville matches they keep him. There is no way the owners and investors are going to pay all that money in the first 2 years and trade him away. Especially with the deal being good after they pay all the money.
They could trade him as early as 2 years. They could keep him. Heck, they could pay 91M for 8 years, until his skills start to decline. Imagine how they could retool trading a 34 year old Weber. Even then, he'd have significant value, even more so when you consider that he'd be due like 14M for the last 6 years of the deal. Point is, no matter what they do, the only bad decision here is NOT to match.
I find it truly disgraceful signing an offer sheet with a team then telling your current team you don't want to play there. You exercise your rights, they will exercise theirs. If I'm Nashville I match it then tell him, look you tried to screw us over, now we keep you until the end of time. If he doesn't want to suit up and honour his contract then there's no signing bonuses anytime in the future.
you sure showed him.
"hey you, you noware stuck here on a team you were drafted by and will be forced to take $110 million. hey, and to top it off you have the summers to live were you want. sucks to be you."
Maybe....just maybe you should blame your GM. Maybe he should have signed Weber and Suter to long term deals last year. Or thru this year. He is the one that allowed Suter to go for nothing and for having Weber in a position to sign an offersheet. Remember...Philly just lost Jagr and Carle for nothing. That is the the chance you take.
The fact is Weber is saying he doesn't want to play in Nashville which is the issue. Or claiming it isn't about the money. As his agent said when he realized how much money he could get he made up his mind. He would take as much money he could and try to ensure Nashville can't match. That's not what I'd want in a player or a captain. Getting money is great but at least make it feasible for your current team to re-sign you.
Don't get me wrong Weber's a great player but this lack of character is something worry about.
according to statements made today by Weber's agent, he didn't want to be part of a rebuild in Nashville and was pretty upset when Suter left. so i guess the question is, if Nashville do match, they need to convince Weber that the Preds are not in rebuild mode and are out to "win now".
If Weber truly wanted out, he would not have taken the course of action where the most likely outcome is that he remains in Nashville gray and gold for life.
And I would imagine that granting that amount of money to Weber would be all the proof he needs that the Preds are competitive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bauer
problem is however, how can the Preds afford to compete with the rest of the west when an obsurdly amount of money is just going to one player? 27M for the 1st year, and i believe 68M over the next 6 years. they won't be able to sign anyone else. how are they supposed to remain competitive?
I doubt they can remain competitive without Weber. You raise a good point, but Nashville has never relied on FA signings to be competitive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bauer
i know it's a tough decision, but the smart move might be to just do a quick rebuild. i agree with you though, if Nashville match, they aren't just gonna trade Weber a year or two later. that would be ridiculous.
Maybe. I'm not well versed with the teams of the West. And with 4 firsts plus whatever they get for Rinne, they could probably do a quick rebuild.
Unless Poile can arrange for a satisfactory return, then he matches and keeps Weber until the end of the 2013-2014 season. Why then? Because if he traded him on August 1, 2013, he'll have paid 27M for one season. If he trades him after the 2013-2014 season, then he pays 28M for two seasons.
Poile will have 29 suitors, and he'll trade Weber to the highest bidder. Some teams may be shy about offering so much because Weber might not be professional if traded there (i.e., he'll whine), but, with 29 potential suitors, Poile will get what he wants, and it will be a heck of a lot more than he was hoping to get from Philly yesterday.
The team that acquires Weber will look to move him once he leaves his prime and his skills start to diminish. With a cap hit of close to 8M and an annual salary averaging 2M after he hits 35, that team will have every cash strapped team that struggles to get to the cap floor making an offer.
Thing is, I'll bet you Weber knew this the day he signed Philly's offer sheet. So, why did he do it? Because, if he waits until the CBA expires, then odds are he gets a deal nowhere near as good as he's getting now.
BTW, as noted earlier, Holmgren wins too, even though I think he expects Nashville to match in the end, because AT WORST he makes sure Weber didn't end up in New York this offseason.
well done. nash has to spend it anyways. i seem to recall thru the oilers experience of the heatley fiasco that a trade partner can pay a bonus before a trade goes thru. i believe bill daly was the one who clarrified this last time. as long as the nhl has the post dated check on record - so to say- the agreement in writing. the trade doesnt go thru til later but since the aquiring team accepts responsibility for the bonus...
but either way. nashville just guts what they have to to make budget. then use philoly profits thru rev sharing to pay weber.
i dont think weber wants to be nashville anymore, he sign an offer sheet, and nashville wanted to trade him.
so why should nashville match, when weber wants out. weber would take the money but wont be happy playing there, cancer in the room.
time to move on, take your 4 1st's start the rebuild.
Why does Nashville want to trade a 28-year old Shea Weber when they have him on a 12 year, $82M deal that every team in the league would like to have? At that point they'll have 2 years to turn themselves into a legit contender and they'll what Weber there to lead that charge.
If they sign him and bite the financial bullet, they'll want to keep him.
I'm not saying that they'd want to. BUT, after two years, they'd still be paying 14M a year for another 2 years, then 9M a year for another 3 years, no? That's still monster money. And, with that 12 year, 82M contract, what would teams offer for a 28 year old Weber? I'm sure that Poile at a minimum would listen, because he could get the type of return that would set his franchise up for a decade.
As I said before, I don't think this offer sheet is a budget issue for Nashville. I think it's a cash flow issue (the first two 13M lump sum payments). Unless that prohibits matching, I think they match.
"hey you, you noware stuck here on a team you were drafted by and will be forced to take $110 million. hey, and to top it off you have the summers to live were you want. sucks to be you."
Haha, yeah it kind of is a big deal since 110 million isn't that much, it's how much is up front that is an issue. And if Nashville can never get competitive it means Weber will be stuck without a cup until at least he's 41. Obviously 110 million is a lot of money but based on his skill it's what he should be getting paid. When he's making only $1 million when hes 37-40 and can't get off Nashville he will be paying the price.
i dont think weber wants to be nashville anymore, he sign an offer sheet, and nashville wanted to trade him.
so why should nashville match, when weber wants out. weber would take the money but wont be happy playing there, cancer in the room.
time to move on, take your 4 1st's start the rebuild.
Keep the player. Sets a precedent to all their future players. And when Ellis/Josi/Blum etc are nearing UFA status they won't ask for a trade but play out their RFA years.
