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Flyers sign Shea Weber to 14-year offer sheet ($7.857M Cap Hit) (Pt V)

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:43 PM
  #101
bauer
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Poile will have 29 suitors.
you're telling me 29 other teams can afford to pay a player 110M over 14 years?

there are only a handful of teams in the NHL that can afford to pay a player that much money. less than 10 probably.

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07-19-2012, 08:44 PM
  #102
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i dont think weber wants to be nashville anymore, he sign an offer sheet, and nashville wanted to trade him.
so why should nashville match, when weber wants out. weber would take the money but wont be happy playing there, cancer in the room.
time to move on, take your 4 1st's start the rebuild.
Nashville didn't want to trade him, they were shopping him to see what his value around the League was.

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07-19-2012, 08:44 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
But hear's the question I have with this:

Why does Nashville want to trade a 28-year old Shea Weber when they have him on a 12 year, $82M deal that every team in the league would like to have? At that point they'll have 2 years to turn themselves into a legit contender and they'll what Weber there to lead that charge.

If they sign him and bite the financial bullet, they'll want to keep him.





I don't know what you're talking about. My argument is that if they swallow the 2 tough years, they won't move him once the contract gets to be a bargain.
They trade him after 2 years because they're bleeding money and cant put a competitive team around Weber/Rinne and that is the earliest point they can get the kind of return for Weber they really need to return to competitiveness. Hypothetically.

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07-19-2012, 08:45 PM
  #104
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They trade him after 2 years because they're bleeding money and cant put a competitive team around Weber/Rinne and that is the earliest point they can get the kind of return for Weber they really need to return to competitiveness. Hypothetically.
But if that is where ownership sees themselves in two years, then why bother matching at all?

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07-19-2012, 08:45 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
If Weber truly wanted out, he would not have taken the course of action where the most likely outcome is that he remains in Nashville gray and gold for life.

And I would imagine that granting that amount of money to Weber would be all the proof he needs that the Preds are competitive.




I doubt they can remain competitive without Weber. You raise a good point, but Nashville has never relied on FA signings to be competitive.



Maybe. I'm not well versed with the teams of the West. And with 4 firsts plus whatever they get for Rinne, they could probably do a quick rebuild.
Signing the offer sheet was a win-win for Weber. If Nashville doesn't match, then he gets the contract he wants, structured as he wants, and plays for a team where he's willing to play. If Nashville matches, as I think they will, then he stays there on HIS terms.

The only risk is that he'd have no control over what Poile does with him as early as the end of the 2013-2014 season (yeah, Poile could trade him as early as the end of July 2013, but he'll at least pay 28M for two seasons, not 27M for one season). BUT, that's a calculated risk when you consider how his negotiating position likely would have been compromised by the new CBA.

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07-19-2012, 08:45 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
well done. nash has to spend it anyways. i seem to recall thru the oilers experience of the heatley fiasco that a trade partner can pay a bonus before a trade goes thru. i believe bill daly was the one who clarrified this last time. as long as the nhl has the post dated check on record - so to say- the agreement in writing. the trade doesnt go thru til later but since the aquiring team accepts responsibility for the bonus...

but either way. nashville just guts what they have to to make budget. then use philoly profits thru rev sharing to pay weber.


You have no idea how to run a franchise.

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07-19-2012, 08:46 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
They could trade him as early as 2 years. They could keep him. Heck, they could pay 91M for 8 years, until his skills start to decline. Imagine how they could retool trading a 34 year old Weber. Even then, he'd have significant value, even more so when you consider that he'd be due like 14M for the last 6 years of the deal. Point is, no matter what they do, the only bad decision here is NOT to match.
They would've wasted money if they traded him in two years. They could keep him for 8 years. Those are all his prime years locked up and trade him when he is 34. But the return won't be as good as if they were to do it earlier in his career. It all depends on his level of play at the time really.

If the owners green light this deal its the intention of keeping Weber during his prime years. Not two years of service and then trade. It would be a waste of money for them. They are an budget team that has trouble with being profitable. What if they approve of this deal and they bomb out in the standings next season which makes them lose money and fan support? What if there is no season in the NHL next year? This deal would cripple them in the long run. The owners also have to consider what his agent has been saying in the media about him wanting to not be a part of a rebuild team. Too many factors in this to make it seem like its an easy decision. The owners will take their time on this one.

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07-19-2012, 08:46 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
Nashville didn't want to trade him, they were shopping him to see what his value around the League was.
This is a ridiculous statement, usually when you shop a player, it means you probably want to trade him in the future.

Let's just go shop Crosby, just to see what his value would be..

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07-19-2012, 08:46 PM
  #109
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Nashville didn't want to trade him, they were shopping him to see what his value around the League was.
his value for what, sign him or let him go, now they lost him.

they should of went for this trade

07-15-2012, 12:27 AM #1
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Infractions: 0/2 (10) tor-nashville

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

to tor, weber

to nash, kulemin,gardiner, colborne

weber in toronto

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07-19-2012, 08:46 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Nucks N Canes View Post
Haha, yeah it kind of is a big deal since 110 million isn't that much, it's how much is up front that is an issue. And if Nashville can never get competitive it means Weber will be stuck without a cup until at least he's 41. Obviously 110 million is a lot of money but based on his skill it's what he should be getting paid. When he's making only $1 million when hes 37-40 and can't get off Nashville he will be paying the price.
He'd probably just retire.

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07-19-2012, 08:47 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by bauer View Post
you're telling me 29 other teams can afford to pay a player 110M over 14 years?

there are only a handful of teams in the NHL that can afford to pay a player that much money. less than 10 probably.
No, I'm telling you that IF Poile matches, pays 28M for two seasons of Weber, and then puts him on the market as a 28 year old with a 12 year deal that pays 81M, he'll have 29 suitors.

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07-19-2012, 08:47 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Nucks N Canes View Post
The fact is Weber is saying he doesn't want to play in Nashville which is the issue. Or claiming it isn't about the money. As his agent said when he realized how much money he could get he made up his mind. He would take as much money he could and try to ensure Nashville can't match. That's not what I'd want in a player or a captain. Getting money is great but at least make it feasible for your current team to re-sign you.

Don't get me wrong Weber's a great player but this lack of character is something worry about.
Yeah, not surrendering your right to determine where you spend the remainder of your career, what a lack of character.

If he doesn't want to play there - and I honestly don't even think that's the case here - he doesn't owe them the right to match anything. Obviously by signing a RFA contract he has opened him up to remaining NSH's property, but the implication that any negotiating he does has to be comfy for NSH to match or he's lacking character is silly.

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07-19-2012, 08:48 PM
  #113
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they should probably just match and then trade him to Philly for some 1sts + roster players.

No way is losing Weber for JUST picks anything good...

2013 1st
2014 1st
Matt Read
Sean Couturier
Kimmo Timonen

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:48 PM
  #114
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But if that is where ownership sees themselves in two years, then why bother matching at all?
Because they lose a LOT of money by not matching. They spend money to keep him but that results in JERSEYS, SOLD TICKETS, PLAYOFFS, WINNING GAMES. It makes absolutely NO sense to let him go for 4 first round draft picks. The owners will almost for sure match it unless someone hasn't passed their business courses. It doesn't matter if the asset wants to leave but they aren't getting fair value for their "PRIZED" asset.

If they don't match the offer they will likely see their investment (The Predators) lose about $26 million in value.

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07-19-2012, 08:49 PM
  #115
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They would've wasted money if they traded him in two years. They could keep him for 8 years. Those are all his prime years locked up and trade him when he is 34. But the return won't be as good as if they were to do it earlier in his career. It all depends on his level of play at the time really.

If the owners green light this deal its the intention of keeping Weber during his prime years. Not two years of service and then trade. It would be a waste of money for them. They are an budget team that has trouble with being profitable. What if they approve of this deal and they bomb out in the standings next season which makes them lose money and fan support? What if there is no season in the NHL next year? This deal would cripple them in the long run. The owners also have to consider what his agent has been saying in the media about him wanting to not be a part of a rebuild team. Too many factors in this to make it seem like its an easy decision. The owners will take their time on this one.
I agree that 8 years would make sense, but even 2 years would not be a waste of money. First, if they don't match, they take an immediate hit to the value of the franchise. Second, in 2 years, they could get the type of return that doesn't hit the franchise value and in fact sets the organization up wonderfully for a decade.

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07-19-2012, 08:49 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
But if that is where ownership sees themselves in two years, then why bother matching at all?
They don't. Not if that's how they see this playing out. If that's what they foresee, the put their faith in Poile/Trotz and start the rebuild now with 4 first rounders instead of dragging out the misery for 2 full seasons in the hopes of getting a better return then.

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07-19-2012, 08:49 PM
  #117
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is it me or this a no brainer? Surely 4 round picks in my eyes are more than enough for Webber, and 27 million for 2 year is just sickening , I don't know why any franchise would even bother with that

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07-19-2012, 08:49 PM
  #118
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Match, then deal him for the 4 1sts+.

Either way, it's nuts for the Predators to not match.

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07-19-2012, 08:49 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Nucks N Canes View Post
The fact is Weber is saying he doesn't want to play in Nashville which is the issue. Or claiming it isn't about the money. As his agent said when he realized how much money he could get he made up his mind. He would take as much money he could and try to ensure Nashville can't match. That's not what I'd want in a player or a captain. Getting money is great but at least make it feasible for your current team to re-sign you.

Don't get me wrong Weber's a great player but this lack of character is something worry about.
And if Nashville is willing to match this offer...why not OFFER it to him last year...or thru this year. ANd by doing so...maybe Suter stays too. Poile played poker with Suter and lost. And now he might lose with Weber too.

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07-19-2012, 08:50 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Nucks N Canes View Post
Because they lose a LOT of money by not matching. They spend money to keep him but that results in JERSEYS, SOLD TICKETS, PLAYOFFS, WINNING GAMES. It makes absolutely NO sense to let him go for 4 first round draft picks. The owners will almost for sure match it unless someone hasn't passed their business courses. It doesn't matter if the asset wants to leave but they aren't getting fair value for their "PRIZED" asset.

If they don't match the offer they will likely see their investment (The Predators) lose about $26 million in value.
With them losing Suter its a very good possibility they don't even make the playoffs. Especially with that offense. Its not as an easy decision as you are making it.

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07-19-2012, 08:51 PM
  #121
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they should probably just match and then trade him to Philly for some 1sts + roster players.

No way is losing Weber for JUST picks anything good...

2013 1st
2014 1st
Matt Read
Sean Couturier
Kimmo Timonen
nope sean is going no where for a long long time. some say the flyers value him right behind claude

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07-19-2012, 08:51 PM
  #122
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No, I'm telling you that IF Poile matches, pays 28M for two seasons of Weber, and then puts him on the market as a 28 year old with a 12 year deal that pays 81M, he'll have 29 suitors.
no, that's still too much money. keep in mind there would be teams too close to the cap to take on an 8M/year cap hit, then remember it's highly unlikely Poile would want to trade Weber within the division or even the conference, and then you have GM's like Burke who flat out refuse to take on any contract over 7 years, so again, there would not be 29 teams.

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07-19-2012, 08:51 PM
  #123
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I agree that 8 years would make sense, but even 2 years would not be a waste of money. First, if they don't match, they take an immediate hit to the value of the franchise. Second, in 2 years, they could get the type of return that doesn't hit the franchise value and in fact sets the organization up wonderfully for a decade.
Maybe they do. But will they be financially stable? Its not about the returns. Its all about the finances.

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07-19-2012, 08:52 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
They would've wasted money if they traded him in two years. They could keep him for 8 years. Those are all his prime years locked up and trade him when he is 34. But the return won't be as good as if they were to do it earlier in his career. It all depends on his level of play at the time really.

If the owners green light this deal its the intention of keeping Weber during his prime years. Not two years of service and then trade. It would be a waste of money for them. They are an budget team that has trouble with being profitable. What if they approve of this deal and they bomb out in the standings next season which makes them lose money and fan support? What if there is no season in the NHL next year? This deal would cripple them in the long run. The owners also have to consider what his agent has been saying in the media about him wanting to not be a part of a rebuild team. Too many factors in this to make it seem like its an easy decision. The owners will take their time on this one.
The Preds are gonna pay $11.5 million per season over 8 years AND THEN trade him!?!?!?

Yea, that makes sense.

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07-19-2012, 08:52 PM
  #125
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[QUOTE=NitHeel;52738153]Yeah, not surrendering your right to determine where you spend the remainder of your career, what a lack of character.

If he doesn't want to play there - and I honestly don't even think that's the case here - he doesn't owe them the right to match anything. Obviously by signing a RFA contract he has opened him up to remaining NSH's property, but the implication that any negotiating he does has to be comfy for NSH to match or he's lacking character is silly.[/QUOT

He hasn't yet earned the right to choose where to spend the rest of his career. So to say he wants Nashville not to match is gutless. And by trying to create your own future at this point is even worse than Turris/Schultz. At least in Turris' defense he never was given a true chance in Phoenix and for Schultz he was a second round pick that hadn't earned a cent from his "employer". Weber had only one more year to be their captain and earn upwards of 8 million. ONE YEAR... Not 3 or 4 or 5 as Turris/Schultz had. He had an opportunity to sign an offer sheet, so sign it, then keep your mouth shut...

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