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The MLD 2012 Thread I

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:21 PM
  #251
overpass
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Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
You heard it before therefor it's true? Can we all present hearsay as truth? All I found (and saw) is that he was a young defenseman who was prone to some giveaways on a bad team. This is not uncommon for young offensive defensemen specially on poor teams where the pressure on them to perform is sky high and it's not like Jeff Brown was a great man at keeping the puck within the team.
Some fans will rip on any defenceman who does more than just throw it up the boards. Some Ottawa fans slammed Wade Redden for his turnovers (and Igor Kravchuk before him) in spite of his rep as a top PMD.

Actually, now that I think of it, maybe that was more common in the clutch-and-grab/trap/dead puck era. D-men who could move the puck weren't as valuable.

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:23 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I would need to know a lot more about Reay's defensie ability to think of him as anything more than merely responsible.
Agreed, like I said I was misguided in my initial assessment. Mentioning Datsyuk was more to explain my line of thinking than perception of Reay's defensive value. Perhaps VI is the man for that job.

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:32 PM
  #253
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With our third pick, 37th overall, the Winston-Salem Polar Twins select:

Brad Maxwell, D



A skilled and tough defensman. Borderline-elite offensive upside with a booming shot and the ability to feast on the power play. Drops the gloves without hesitation.


NHL All Star Game, 1984

1978 - Led all defensemen in power-play goals (3 ahead of Potvin and Park)
1981 - Top-pairing defenseman on a Minnesota team that made the Finals. Set up the winning goal in the North Stars' only victory.
1984 - 5th in defensemen point scoring, and exceeded only by Coffey, Bourque and Potvin in assists
1984 - 8th in PIM
1984 - Fell one point short of being the playoff leading scorer for a Minnesota team that made the Conference Finals

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Old
07-19-2012, 05:00 PM
  #254
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Upon my quick glances yesterday, I basically saw Drozdetsky as Kamensky without the supporting NHL career. Both have high end Soviet league finishes (Drozdetsky a more difficult era), both had high end international recognition (Kamensky has him beat there if memory serves after taking a nap), but only Kamensky had the 7 years after he was injured where e was still a high end secondary guy in the NHL.

I don't really see an argument for Drozdetsky over Kamensky personally. Hopefully my bio which I'll get done tomorrow or Saturday shows that.

Edit: Troll Ward that wasn't meant to take down your player: Drozdetsky is certainly a good pick here and he was a very big part of TDMM and I winning the MLD last year. This response was more towards Dreakmur.

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Old
07-19-2012, 05:13 PM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Upon my quick glances yesterday, I basically saw Drozdetsky as Kamensky without the supporting NHL career. Both have high end Soviet league finishes (Drozdetsky a more difficult era), both had high end international recognition (Kamensky has him beat there if memory serves after taking a nap), but only Kamensky had the 7 years after he was injured where e was still a high end secondary guy in the NHL.

I don't really see an argument for Drozdetsky over Kamensky personally. Hopefully my bio which I'll get done tomorrow or Saturday shows that.

Edit: Troll Ward that wasn't meant to take down your player: Drozdetsky is certainly a good pick here and he was a very big part of TDMM and I winning the MLD last year. This response was more towards Dreakmur.
I dont remember if it was 87 or 91 but Sweden used 3 players to cover Kamensky. He was deemed as such a big threat.

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Old
07-19-2012, 05:20 PM
  #256
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're on an 8 hour clock now correct?

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Old
07-19-2012, 05:21 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're on an 8 hour clock now correct?
That's my understanding, yes.

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Old
07-19-2012, 05:26 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Upon my quick glances yesterday, I basically saw Drozdetsky as Kamensky without the supporting NHL career. Both have high end Soviet league finishes (Drozdetsky a more difficult era), both had high end international recognition (Kamensky has him beat there if memory serves after taking a nap), but only Kamensky had the 7 years after he was injured where e was still a high end secondary guy in the NHL.

I don't really see an argument for Drozdetsky over Kamensky personally. Hopefully my bio which I'll get done tomorrow or Saturday shows that.

Edit: Troll Ward that wasn't meant to take down your player: Drozdetsky is certainly a good pick here and he was a very big part of TDMM and I winning the MLD last year. This response was more towards Dreakmur.
Kamensky's post-Russian invasion accomplishments in his domestic league are essentially the equivelant of AHL accomplishments.

Also, Drozdetsky has the Tikhonov issues, which to me are no different than a player from the 1940s going off to war. Both are factors that are completely separate from hockey, outside the players' control, and won't occur in this draft setting.

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Old
07-19-2012, 05:37 PM
  #259
Rob Scuderi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Kamensky's post-Russian invasion accomplishments in his domestic league are essentially the equivelant of AHL accomplishments.

Also, Drozdetsky has the Tikhonov issues, which to me are no different than a player from the 1940s going off to war. Both are factors that are completely separate from hockey, outside the players' control, and won't occur in this draft setting.
He was 4th in Soviet league scoring when the KLM line were his teammates in '88. His 4th place finish in '91 was obviously weaker.

Luckily that's not all Kamensky's resume rests on, right?

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Old
07-19-2012, 05:43 PM
  #260
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Welcome Back

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
You heard it before therefor it's true? Can we all present hearsay as truth? All I found (and saw) is that he was a young defenseman who was prone to some giveaways on a bad team. This is not uncommon for young offensive defensemen specially on poor teams where the pressure on them to perform is sky high and it's not like Jeff Brown was a great man at keeping the puck within the team.
Welcome back. Just throw in some numbers .

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Old
07-19-2012, 05:51 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
He was 4th in Soviet league scoring when the KLM line were his teammates in '88. His 4th place finish in '91 was obviously weaker.
His accmplishments from 1988 and 1989 are fine, but 1990 and 1991 are weak.

Quote:
Luckily that's not all Kamensky's resume rests on, right?
His NHL numbers aren't impressive, to me, so it doesn't add much. Never top-20 in points, goals, or assists.

Do up a decent bio - I read just about every one - and you might change my mind.

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Old
07-19-2012, 06:16 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
His accmplishments from 1988 and 1989 are fine, but 1990 and 1991 are weak.



His NHL numbers aren't impressive, to me, so it doesn't add much. Never top-20 in points, goals, or assists.

Do up a decent bio - I read just about every one - and you might change my mind.
His NHL numbers are a bit more impressive than you're making them out to be considering he has two top 25s in points. Plus let's not forget he has two 4ths in scoring in the playoffs. Like I said before though, he was a better player in Russia than he was here because the serious injuries he received prior to and in his first season in the NHL.

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Old
07-19-2012, 06:29 PM
  #263
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Kamensky and Injuries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
His accmplishments from 1988 and 1989 are fine, but 1990 and 1991 are weak.



His NHL numbers aren't impressive, to me, so it doesn't add much. Never top-20 in points, goals, or assists.

Do up a decent bio - I read just about every one - and you might change my mind.
Kamensky had an injury plagued career, broken leg, knee injuries:


http://www.milehighhockey.com/2008/8...ll-time-13-val


Last edited by Canadiens1958: 07-19-2012 at 06:30 PM. Reason: typo
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Old
07-19-2012, 06:29 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
I were one of his biggest critics when he came to Winnipeg. He was great offensively but his real weakness was that he shyed away from physical play. Thats when he made bad turnovers. He didnt make anymore turnovers than we've seen from numerous offensively defensemen (Ozolinsh and Brown for example). Taking fans namecalling as fact is preposterous.
I pmed you and jkrx. Please let me know if you're keeping your team. I don't covet it (I started the sign-up thread and would have stayed in if I so desired. VI even gave me a nice last minute invite that I appreciate.), but I don't want to do research for a team I'm not gonna have either. Thank you very much for your time and consideration.

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Old
07-19-2012, 07:39 PM
  #265
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
You heard it before therefor it's true? Can we all present hearsay as truth? All I found (and saw) is that he was a young defenseman who was prone to some giveaways on a bad team. This is not uncommon for young offensive defensemen specially on poor teams where the pressure on them to perform is sky high and it's not like Jeff Brown was a great man at keeping the puck within the team.
Never said Jeff Brown was a defensive stalwart himself. In fact I might go as far as to say he was "bad". But he wasn't so bad that his coaches didn't give him pretty good minutes including PK time, and his teams were successful with him playing pretty big minutes.

The turnover thing is a soft spot for you and maybe we should just drop it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Upon my quick glances yesterday, I basically saw Drozdetsky as Kamensky without the supporting NHL career. Both have high end Soviet league finishes (Drozdetsky a more difficult era), both had high end international recognition (Kamensky has him beat there if memory serves after taking a nap), but only Kamensky had the 7 years after he was injured where e was still a high end secondary guy in the NHL.

I don't really see an argument for Drozdetsky over Kamensky personally. Hopefully my bio which I'll get done tomorrow or Saturday shows that.

Edit: Troll Ward that wasn't meant to take down your player: Drozdetsky is certainly a good pick here and he was a very big part of TDMM and I winning the MLD last year. This response was more towards Dreakmur.
Kamensky has the NHL career backing him up. Also a longer international career. But it appears Drozdetsky was a more dominant Soviet league player. He had 441 points in 499 games there, as opposed to 218 in 329 for Kamensky.

I don't know who I would be more comfortable with.

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:01 PM
  #266
Hobnobs
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Originally Posted by God Made Me View Post
I pmed you and jkrx. Please let me know if you're keeping your team. I don't covet it (I started the sign-up thread and would have stayed in if I so desired. VI even gave me a nice last minute invite that I appreciate.), but I don't want to do research for a team I'm not gonna have either. Thank you very much for your time and consideration.
Sorry to have kept you waiting. My son had me occupied. Im keeping my team, I hope you didnt start some research...

Quote:
Never said Jeff Brown was a defensive stalwart himself. In fact I might go as far as to say he was "bad". But he wasn't so bad that his coaches didn't give him pretty good minutes including PK time, and his teams were successful with him playing pretty big minutes.

The turnover thing is a soft spot for you and maybe we should just drop it.
Tverdovsky was used on the PK too. From 1:16 in '00 to 2:39 in '03. I also don't think that Tverdovsky can help that he happen to play for the Ducks and the Coyotes. Two terribly managed teams.

I really don't think Jeff Brown would have put the '01 Ducks (for example) in the playoffs. Oleg were in a terrible situation. It was him, Kariya and Selšnne. He had no defensive partner to help him either. Brown had guys like Stevens, undrafted and Lumme. Even those quebec teams had atleast two defensemen better than anything than the Ducks mustered.

I followed most of his career in Winnipeg/Phoenix (with a critical eye) and Im not saying he was better than Brown but he wasnt as defensively deficient as you make him out to be. Not that he was good but still...

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Old
07-19-2012, 11:26 PM
  #267
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Sherbrooke selects a brilliant playmaker who will shine next to Herb Jordan on the wing.

Claude Giroux, C/RW


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07-19-2012, 11:30 PM
  #268
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Giroux has two very good seasons in a 3.5 year NHL career. I feel like I'm in the AAA or AA. Sorry, but look at hockey HISTORY and you'll see plenty of guys who had two great seasons.

Here's hoping he's the biggest greenhorn on your squad.

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07-19-2012, 11:34 PM
  #269
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Giroux has two very good seasons in a 3.5 year NHL career. I feel like I'm in the AAA or AA. Sorry, but look at hockey HISTORY and you'll see plenty of guys who had two great seasons.

Here's hoping he's the biggest greenhorn on your squad.
Yes but consider the peak, which is in your perspective the only thing that keeps you justifying any piece of that Karlsson selection.

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07-19-2012, 11:39 PM
  #270
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Yes but consider the peak, which is in your perspective the only thing that keeps you justifying any piece of that Karlsson selection.
We used to consider 5-year peaks (NOT careers, best five years in 10+ year careers typically) in the ATD but some GMs do talk about 3-year peaks in long careers. One year is not a peak. And, to your other point, not from my perspective: I for one didn't justify any piece of that Karlsson selection. It sounds like you're saying Giroux is worthy because Karlsson was picked. That is a slippery slope heading for Landeskog (opps, did I just mention someone on your all-time greats list? )

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07-19-2012, 11:42 PM
  #271
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does giroux even have 300 games?

and wasn't his peak played at center anyway?

Off-topic , but my next two picks are available if someone wants to grab them

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Old
07-19-2012, 11:45 PM
  #272
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Giroux has two very good seasons in a 3.5 year NHL career. I feel like I'm in the AAA or AA. Sorry, but look at hockey HISTORY and you'll see plenty of guys who had two great seasons.

Here's hoping he's the biggest greenhorn on your squad.
Given how good he was in the 2010 playoffs, perhaps we can credit him with 2.5 relevant seasons?

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does giroux even have 300 games

and his short peak was played at center
285 regular season + 50 playoffs = 335 games.

When was the last time he regularly played RW?

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Old
07-19-2012, 11:46 PM
  #273
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does giroux even have 300 games?
With NHL playoffs, yes. No individual trophies, no Stanley Cups, no world championships, no Olympic medals. Just one very good, one great season in less than 4 years of a career.

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Given how good he was in the 2010 playoffs, perhaps we can credit him with 2.5 good seasons?
Oh! If we apply that to players from other eras, man some great short careers just seem twice as long! Hell, even my MacDougall pick isn't just a 5-year top scorer in the top league of his time, add in all those Stanley Cup goals he scored and I guess you could say he had a 8 or 9 year equivalent great career!

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Old
07-19-2012, 11:49 PM
  #274
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Given how good he was in the 2010 playoffs, perhaps we can credit him with 2.5 relevant seasons?
Still pretty short for a guy with no intangibles to speak of considering the available offensive players.

Quote:
285 regular season + 50 playoffs = 335 games.

When was the last time he regularly played RW
Completely forgot the playoffs , my bad

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Old
07-19-2012, 11:55 PM
  #275
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With NHL playoffs, yes. No individual trophies, no Stanley Cups, no world championships, no Olympic medals. Just one very good, one great season in less than 4 years of a career.
I didn't know players needed individual trophies at the MLD level to be considered good picks. And team accomplishments? Since when has that had much more than minimal bearing on a player's all-time status?

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