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NHL Free Agency Thread 7 (Legit Sources ONLY) Shane Doan visiting Montreal (Post 400)

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07-19-2012, 11:53 PM
  #126
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I'm sorry but I really don't know what you're talking about. Not trying to be sarcastic but what are you saying? Do you not think Semin will get a $5M contract? He's already had at least one offer for at least that by Rutherford in Carolina. The issue isn't as much salary as it is for term. He wants multiple years and he's only being offered very short term.
Semin to me is a disease for teams that play hard hockey with the playoffs and the Stanley Cup in mind.It doesn't surprise me at all that no teams want him accept for short terms,he actually may play the way he's asked if every year is a contract year. He is the type of player that costs people their jobs with his perimeter play and lackadaisical backchecking,definitely not big on my list of character players.No sarcasm intended.He could learn his faults by watching Scott Gomez he plays like that every moment he's on the ice,Scott was a player I liked at one time,now he's All-Pro Lazy and Coach Killer.

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07-20-2012, 12:08 AM
  #127
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Semin to me is a disease for teams that play hard hockey with the playoffs and the Stanley Cup in mind.
Jesus Christ this is beyond ridiculous..... Your hatred towards the guy has went from blind anger to simply obsessive and unhealthy. I just don't get it, you'd think he ****ed your highschool sweetheart or something.

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07-20-2012, 12:12 AM
  #128
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Really! Crazy! Philly is desperate! I know the owner is like 80!

Renaud P Lavoie
Just received the details of Shea Weber contract. In the first 4 seasons, 13 million of the 14 million per season comes from signing bonuses

Fait incroyable dans l'offre des Flyers à Shea Weber: 4 premières- 14 millions par saison. 13 millions par saison sont des bonis signature.

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07-20-2012, 12:22 AM
  #129
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Jesus Christ this is beyond ridiculous..... Your hatred towards the guy has went from blind anger to simply obsessive and unhealthy. I just don't get it, you'd think he ****ed your highschool sweetheart or something.
Hey Bud get a grip I don't have anything invested in that Semin clown,no hatred or anger if that's what you picked up from anything I wrote try just watching the guy play and you will see what I mean.If he bopped my high school sweeties then I would be really concerned about his mental health as I'm 57 years old.

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07-20-2012, 12:29 AM
  #130
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Jesus Christ this is beyond ridiculous..... Your hatred towards the guy has went from blind anger to simply obsessive and unhealthy. I just don't get it, you'd think he ****ed your highschool sweetheart or something.
Nobody is denying Semin's top skills, but this team doesnt need passengers anymore, Semin takes too many shifts off and is knew for his lack of compete level, lazzyness in the practices and all.. Some people are underrating that this kind of players can bring a team down, we need charactere players pushing in the same direction, thats the way we will get a better collective effort most of the nights.. no need too spend our money stupidly, lets be patient and wiser..

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07-20-2012, 12:33 AM
  #131
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Hey Bud get a grip I don't have anything invested in that Semin clown,no hatred or anger if that's what you picked up from anything I wrote try just watching the guy play and you will see what I mean.If he bopped my high school sweeties then I would be really concerned about his mental health as I'm 57 years old.
Semin. Kostitsyn, apples , oranges. More so, How in the world did Montreal pick up Habs fans originally from Wales?

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07-20-2012, 01:08 AM
  #132
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Nobody is denying Semin's top skills, but this team doesnt need passengers anymore, Semin takes too many shifts off and is knew for his lack of compete level, lazzyness in the practices and all.. Some people are underrating that this kind of players can bring a team down, we need charactere players pushing in the same direction, thats the way we will get a better collective effort most of the nights.. no need too spend our money stupidly, lets be patient and wiser..
Blablabla.. Always the same tape. This can also be said for a guy like Penner.. and guess what? He proved a lot of people wrong, he said it on the ice moments after the Kings won the Stanley cup. He knew his rep wasn't good and he showed to everybody that he can change and make a difference a game in a good environment/team.

People comparing AK to Semin, saying AK could be a 30g scorer if he wasn't lazy etc etc.. Well, even if Semin is streaky in his effort level, he still managed to maintain a ratio of 34.4G per 82 games... So at least, he IS a 30g scorer. He can also play on the PK... and he is +65 in his +/- ratio in his career.. So for a guy that is a floater and lazy, he probably does something right if the coach is using him on the PK and is always on the + in his last 4 seasons (+92).

You guys need to understand that a player scoring 30+goals is USEFUL for a team NO MATTER WHAT... Remember when we said Ryder was the most useless 30g scorer? Well, he's another guy that proved everyone wrong because of his one dimension game. You guys need to stop concentrating on his flaws ONLY and balanced the good and bad and judge if he would make a team better or not. I am really not convinced that a team starting a game with Semin in the line up has more chance to lose than win.

EDIT: Also, I kinda admire the guy for still wanting to play in the NHL after all the things that have been said on him. The easy way/life for him is to go back in the KHL but for some reason, he is still looking for a contract in the NHL.


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Old
07-20-2012, 03:56 AM
  #133
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Semin. Kostitsyn, apples , oranges. More so, How in the world did Montreal pick up Habs fans originally from Wales?
I lived in Montreal in the 50's when the only hockey team in the world was in Montreal.I was a Hab fan before I could walk.Lived in Longueil not sure of the spelling but close enough to hear cheering from parades and learn to enjoy them.

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07-20-2012, 05:48 AM
  #134
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This Semin discussion is funny.
There are two things we are clearly lacking up front, pure goal scorer and raw talent. Semin fits the bill.
But ya this kid is just too poisonous he'll come into a new team and completely destroy it.


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07-20-2012, 06:02 AM
  #135
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I could see Nashville letting Shea Weber go and then sign Yanik Weber for 14 years at 1mill per year.....that way they'll still be able to sell their Weber jerseys and save a boat load of money!
Simply brilliant!

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07-20-2012, 06:38 AM
  #136
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I'm of the opinion that the Habs need a big young defenceman and Florida has Keaton Ellerby a 23yr.old LD 6'5 and 217 lbs and is their 7th Dman.Dale Tallon and Bergevin probably have a good working history from their days in Chicago together.Maybe the Habs could trade Rafael Diaz for Ellerby giving the Habs a big Dman to carry the load with Emelin.Another Dman could be Cody Franson from Toronto,he's a RD 24yr.old 6'5 and 213 lbs. Truly the Habs need a couple of big Dmen like these,Bergevin has dealt with Brian Burke over Rick Dudley and that went smooth possibly there's a deal they can make for Franson that can help Toronto.I think if the Habs are going to play a hard Physical brand of hockey it would be wise to gain some sizeable defencemen.Last on my list is Matt Martin from the NYI'ers he's 23 yr.old LW 6'3 and 210 lbs.hitting machine.The Habs need him for their 4th line and NYI could use some defencemen with experience like Kaberle or Weber and a 4th pick maybe for him,he's a RFA also.With a few players like these the Habs would be hard to play against and harder to injure.Just saying IMO.

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07-20-2012, 06:46 AM
  #137
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This Semin discussion is funny.
There are two things we are clearly la long up front, pure goal scorer and raw talent. Semin fits the bill.
But ya this kid is just too poisonous he'll come into a new team and completely destroy it.
Couldn't agree more...with some of the size and sandpaper we have recently added, it would be nice to see a bonafide goal scoring talent like that on our team, if the price is right...

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07-20-2012, 07:11 AM
  #138
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Just to make it clear, Nashville is facing a $27 million outlay to Shea Weber in the next 12 calendar months. $13m signing bonus the moment the contract is signed, then $1m salary for 12/13, then another $13m bonus next July 1st (I presume that would be the date). That is a huge amount of cash for a franchise like Nashville to dish out to one player, and Philadelphia's ownership knows it. The sheet is specifically structured to be an absolute poison pill to the Predators franchise & ownership.

This contract is every bit as egregious as Kovalchuk's "sign him til he's 44" nonsensical deal was. It's not just the cap circumvention of those damned "tack on $1m years at the end" - it's the outright predation (pardon the pun) by a large-market team against a small-market one. This is not the way successful leagues are run. This is the way that leads to a permanent two-tiered league where the smaller markets effectively become farm teams for the larger ones.

Shame on this ****ing league for not stopping these ******* contracts when they started and letting them get to this point.
That is correct, Nashville if they accept this deal will owe Weber 28 million dollars for 1 hockey season even if they wish to trade him next off season. Add to that the 14 million Rinne will be making in the next 2 years that's a total of 42 million over the next 2 years which is currently more then their entire team Salary Cap at the moment

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07-20-2012, 07:18 AM
  #139
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Semin to me is a disease for teams that play hard hockey with the playoffs and the Stanley Cup in mind.It doesn't surprise me at all that no teams want him accept for short terms,he actually may play the way he's asked if every year is a contract year. He is the type of player that costs people their jobs with his perimeter play and lackadaisical backchecking,definitely not big on my list of character players.No sarcasm intended.He could learn his faults by watching Scott Gomez he plays like that every moment he's on the ice,Scott was a player I liked at one time,now he's All-Pro Lazy and Coach Killer.
That's fair but your personal disdain for Semin doesn't change the fact that he's a VERY productive NHLer. His numbers are comparable to some top flight NHL talent including Rick Nash, Ryan etc. The fact he's not a major target for most GM's speaks to his terible reputation in the league, no doubt about it.

But.... that wouldn't prevent me from puting him in our line up, especially on a line with Gio and Plex. Playing with two of harder playing guys can go a long way to showing how to play harder. Not to mention he'd accent that line like no other player available. He knows he won't get a long term deal from any team right niow and so he'll have to sign a 2 year deal to prove he's a worthy NHL player in hopes to get a long term contract later. That being said, you'll have a guy who's pissed that he isn't getting these massive deals even though he has the numebrs, being let go from his team for nothing and has an opportunity to show everyone his worth. Worse comes to worse, he has a crappy year and he's let go. What's the harm??

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07-20-2012, 07:33 AM
  #140
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This Semin discussion is funny.
There are two things we are clearly lacking up front, pure goal scorer and raw talent. Semin fits the bill.
But ya this kid is just too poisonous he'll come into a new team and completely destroy it.
Semin destroying the team would have way more to do with a really bad leadership core than Semin himself. If himself he's able to be "cancerous", it tells you a lot about the rest of the team. Yet, I believe we are stronger in that department than in the past.

But then, people here love their "cancerous" label...all cancers that left here that ended up STILL to this day with their new team. The only one that left was Ribeiro and yet, I do remember people saying that he wouldn't last 2 years and be kicked out of Dallas....took a little longer than that I guess.....

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07-20-2012, 07:36 AM
  #141
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Except, Weber's cap hit won't be 14M. It will be 7.85M. They'll need to add another 6ish mill to get to the cap floor. Then because of that Weber deal, they'll be spending 6M more than the cap floor. For a team like Nashville which doesn't spend to the cap and operate on a budget, it handicaps them. It means they have 6 less millions to spend on improving their team.
True. Still, they spent more than that last year, didn't they? Granted, they thought they were going for the Cup, so it might have been an anomalous one-off reach for playoff revenue which exceeded their normal grasp.
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No, it's not a red herring. It is 27M in less than a year. Possibly even a lockout year where they still need to pay the bonuses.
I guess if people have to look at it that way, they should at least state that Nashville gets Weber on a huge bargain for just $2M in Year 2, then? Still a red herring to me. But swimming in a sea of reasons why Nashville would pause on the finances of it all anyway, so not a very menacing red herring. I think the finances of it stand as daunting enough on their own without the need to try to make it seem like they would be paying him $27M for 1 season. (Unless there's a lost season to a lockout of course - a real, but hopefully slight, possibility.)
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It's a very very crafty move my Holmgren. I wish the habs would do stuff like that and were ready to win at any cost.
Agreed. End of the day, it is a cut-throat offer, and... a totally legal one, and... it just might work. Nicely done by Philly. They are playing to win.

I'm a little less willing to risk giving up draft pick compensation from our team right at the moment, given the chances our team isn't quite competitive enough and the risk that losing higher picks might carry, but, if the rules don't change too drastically in the next CBA, hopefully as our team climbs the ladder our management will be able to play tough like this too. We are supposedly a "have" market, after all. Gotta make that count for something at some point.

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07-20-2012, 07:42 AM
  #142
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This Semin discussion is funny.
There are two things we are clearly lacking up front, pure goal scorer and raw talent. Semin fits the bill.
But ya this kid is just too poisonous he'll come into a new team and completely destroy it.
I don't think he's "cancerous" or even "poisonous" or really risks destroying the team. But I can imagine him getting ripped constantly by Therrien, and underperforming as a result. It just doesn't feel like a likely fit to me. I'd still try it for a year just to see, because we do need the goals pretty badly. But not with a lot of optimism that it would work out. Although if I was Semin and I had any insight at all into the Habs team and Therrien's reputation, I'd take one of the other short-term offers on the table instead. Don't see why he'd sign up to what seems like exactly the wrong persona to play under.

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07-20-2012, 07:58 AM
  #143
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Semin destroying the team would have way more to do with a really bad leadership core than Semin himself. If himself he's able to be "cancerous", it tells you a lot about the rest of the team. Yet, I believe we are stronger in that department than in the past.

But then, people here love their "cancerous" label...all cancers that left here that ended up STILL to this day with their new team. The only one that left was Ribeiro and yet, I do remember people saying that he wouldn't last 2 years and be kicked out of Dallas....took a little longer than that I guess.....
Precisely my point. But people here assume everything in Washington was his fault.
They even buy whatever was said by players that are clearly frustrated with Semin (suggesting he should go back to Russia is more than just a bias criticism). Even though they left Washington before Semin.

The media fully endorsed this ''cancer'' image of Semin. Crawford calling him a loser and McGuire saying he's a coach killer, and a lot of fans just ate that right up.
Meanwhile, a guy like Brodeur, who most claim was the reason Claude Julien was fired, was never criticized.

The whole Washington team was in shambles in terms of leadership. When your captain is making rock videos and pretending to be a rock star, it says a lot about the direction of the leadership.
But for some reason, it all rains down on Semin.

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07-20-2012, 08:06 AM
  #144
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Gotta feel for the Preds fans these days...Suter leaves, and now looks like Weber is gone...can you imagine if we lost Subban and Markov in the same way?

Gotta figure Poile is somewhat at fault here, not recognizing what was, or could have happened if Suter was going to bolt out the door...very unfortunate for their fans...makes me hate the flyers even more...

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07-20-2012, 08:10 AM
  #145
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I don't think he's "cancerous" or even "poisonous" or really risks destroying the team. But I can imagine him getting ripped constantly by Therrien, and underperforming as a result. It just doesn't feel like a likely fit to me. I'd still try it for a year just to see, because we do need the goals pretty badly. But not with a lot of optimism that it would work out. Although if I was Semin and I had any insight at all into the Habs team and Therrien's reputation, I'd take one of the other short-term offers on the table instead. Don't see why he'd sign up to what seems like exactly the wrong persona to play under.
I disagree with that. If Therrien hasn't changed his ways, he won't last long, otherwise I can see Therrien constantly ripping at PK as well.
But if I remember correctly, he had mentioned, on AC I believe, that you have to adapt to every player. Some guys need the love tap after every shift, some need to be shaken, some need a bit of encouragement, etc. So, if he figured that out, and actually believes it, then I don't see why he would just unleash on Semin constantly.

I really don't think Therrien will come in as the hard nosed coach that just rips his players. Hitchcock changed. Torts is constantly encouraging his players in NY as well.
If those guys changed, I'm hoping Mike will as well.

As WS mentioned, I also feel we have enough good leadership in our team for Semin to jump in and follow the trend. Our two russians, Markov and Emelin, also don't take nights off on the ice and seem to be pretty hard workers outside the rink as well.

I really am not as scared to bring Semin in as most people. I'm fully confident it would work well.

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07-20-2012, 08:25 AM
  #146
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Gotta feel for the Preds fans these days...Suter leaves, and now looks like Weber is gone...can you imagine if we lost Subban and Markov in the same way?

Gotta figure Poile is somewhat at fault here, not recognizing what was, or could have happened if Suter was going to bolt out the door...very unfortunate for their fans...makes me hate the flyers even more...
That's why you sign your core players long term when you can...even if it's a bit of a risk.

Poile could have signed Weber long term last summer...which in turn would have helped get Suter signed but he dicided to play the hard line and got burnt.

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07-20-2012, 08:26 AM
  #147
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Is it possible that being a UFA this July, has been a humbling experience for Semin and his agent? Would they sign another 1 yr deal to go out and disprove the critics? Give him 1 yr at 5.75M and send Gomez to Hamilton on Oct 1st...

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07-20-2012, 09:19 AM
  #148
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I have no problem with Semin. He's the exact kind of player this team needs. The thing is he's not a Bergevin or Therrien kind of player. So I don't see the point of this constant bickering when we know nothing will happen on that front.

I also don't get people calling him a "poison". Do you not realize the Capitals captain is Ovechkin? He's probably one of the most immature players in the league. Sure he plays like a bull on the ice, but he's a goofball off of it and doesn't seem to care much about offseason training. Semin didn't have many "leaders" on the team to guide him.

Keep money and hope Getzlaf/Perry are available next summer. There are a bunch of moveable contracts next year too.

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07-20-2012, 09:27 AM
  #149
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I disagree with that. If Therrien hasn't changed his ways, he won't last long, otherwise I can see Therrien constantly ripping at PK as well.
But if I remember correctly, he had mentioned, on AC I believe, that you have to adapt to every player. Some guys need the love tap after every shift, some need to be shaken, some need a bit of encouragement, etc. So, if he figured that out, and actually believes it, then I don't see why he would just unleash on Semin constantly.

I really don't think Therrien will come in as the hard nosed coach that just rips his players. Hitchcock changed. Torts is constantly encouraging his players in NY as well.
If those guys changed, I'm hoping Mike will as well.
It's a nice "hope", but I don't know what there is to base it on. Therrien's track record is at least something, and yes, while people change, when you hand an offer across the table to Semin and he has other similar offers from Detroit or wherever, why is he going to take ours and just "hope" as we do that Therrien has evolved?
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I really am not as scared to bring Semin in as most people. I'm fully confident it would work well.
Well, it seemed like he was in the doghouse last season in Washington a lot, and still got 21 goals and 54 points. I mean, if that is what you call "work well", then sure, I can see that being at least a reasonable floor to set one's expectations on. He's just that talented. And that's why I'd personally still offer the $5M/1yr or maybe even $6M/1yr or $10M/2yrs... because even that minimum return is still something we could use. Then with the "wildcard" upside that maybe things do work out better and he does even better than that. But I don't see how anybody could be "confident" that the full upside would be hit. It's just a "hope".

I say go for it anyway, go for the win. Even coddle Semin a little bit if you have to. Don't just fax the offer to his agent, fly them in, sit them down, take them out on the town. Get Therrien to smile and bat his eyelashes a bit, if that's what it takes.

It's worth a try at this point. I don't have to feel confident - or even optimistic - about it working out to still say why not go for it. I don't think there's all that much downside, after all.

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07-20-2012, 09:53 AM
  #150
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It's a nice "hope", but I don't know what there is to base it on. Therrien's track record is at least something, and yes, while people change, when you hand an offer across the table to Semin and he has other similar offers from Detroit or wherever, why is he going to take ours and just "hope" as we do that Therrien has evolved?

Well, it seemed like he was in the doghouse last season in Washington a lot, and still got 21 goals and 54 points. I mean, if that is what you call "work well", then sure, I can see that being at least a reasonable floor to set one's expectations on. He's just that talented. And that's why I'd personally still offer the $5M/1yr or maybe even $6M/1yr or $10M/2yrs... because even that minimum return is still something we could use. Then with the "wildcard" upside that maybe things do work out better and he does even better than that. But I don't see how anybody could be "confident" that the full upside would be hit. It's just a "hope".

I say go for it anyway, go for the win. Even coddle Semin a little bit if you have to. Don't just fax the offer to his agent, fly them in, sit them down, take them out on the town. Get Therrien to smile and bat his eyelashes a bit, if that's what it takes.

It's worth a try at this point. I don't have to feel confident - or even optimistic - about it working out to still say why not go for it. I don't think there's all that much downside, after all.
So was Ovy, but he turned it around. Maybe this had alot to do with the coaches, and you are right. Can't see it being better for a player of his type with Therrien.

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