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Old
07-20-2012, 07:50 AM
  #26
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Alzner>Carlson>>Subban

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07-20-2012, 10:44 AM
  #27
Bender
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Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
Yeah Subban has been better. Carlson was great in the playoffs but he slumped badly for half the season (in the 2nd half unlike Subban who struggeld a bit in the 1st but not defensively).

You're basically just buying into the HF Subban hate by saying he lacks character or is selfish. Well, so is Drew Doughty or Karlsson and Doughty is actually worse at passing the puck on the PP yet they don't get the same hate. Subban's offensive instincts are much better than Carlson's. His defensive game when he's on top of it is more physical and better but the problem is that it isn't consistent yet.
You know what? Sometimes, the 'HF Hate' as you put it, actually IS warranted. It's not made up out of thin-air. Sometimes it can be blown out of proportion but there is always a little bit of truth behind it, isn't there?

I can tell you from watching Subban that he is talented but the problem with PK is that he's just NOT AS GOOD as HE THINKS HE IS. Not right now anyways and he may never be.

Do you really believe that when players come in to the NHL as rookies and have a 'everyone can relax...your savior is here now' kind of attitude that it's really going to fly with teammates??? It's NOT and it DOES NOT. Some things cannot be unsaid and some things cannot be undone.

I predict he'll be traded within 2-3 years and I just hope he's never a member of the Avalanche.

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07-20-2012, 10:51 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
You know what? Sometimes, the 'HF Hate' as you put it, actually IS warranted. It's not made up out of thin-air. Sometimes it can be blown out of proportion but there is always a little bit of truth behind it, isn't there?

I can tell you from watching Subban that he is talented but the problem with PK is that he's just NOT AS GOOD as HE THINKS HE IS. Not right now anyways and he may never be.

Do you really believe that when players come in to the NHL as rookies and have a 'everyone can relax...your savior is here now' kind of attitude that it's really going to fly with teammates??? It's NOT and it DOES NOT. Some things cannot be unsaid and some things cannot be undone.

I predict he'll be traded within 2-3 years and I just hope he's never a member of the Avalanche.
I hate to disagree with you (I really do I'm not being sarcastic), but I don't get what you talking about. Kid plays with swagger, since when is that a bad thing?

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07-20-2012, 11:31 AM
  #29
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I'm not a huge Subban fan, but the bashing he takes is completely unwarranted. He plays hard and plays the game to win. He is also a very good hockey player with an extremely high ceiling.

It seems to be the cool thing to hate on Subban. I'm not sure I understand why.

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07-20-2012, 12:03 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Alzner is a fantastic defensive defensman and I prefer him to Carlson.

And I would take Subban over Carlson quite easily.
I totally agree, but Carlson will have a fantastic 2-way game in a couple of years.

I also do agree that I would take Subban over both Alzner and Carlson. I definitely wouldn't mind Alzner as well, but Carlson has way better puckmoving ability and can proved decent defense. Getting more for your buck than Alzner IMO.

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Old
07-20-2012, 03:11 PM
  #31
Bender
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
I hate to disagree with you (I really do I'm not being sarcastic), but I don't get what you talking about. Kid plays with swagger, since when is that a bad thing?
It's all good, you can believe whatever you want.

I actually live about 30 minutes north of Montreal and even though I don't really watch a lot of the Habs games, I do watch and listen to a lot of local TV and radio shows quite a bit.

I think there is a big difference between 'playing with swagger' [which is fine] and the way Subban 'comes off', especially his first 2 years in the league. You can play with swagger and still be humble. Those of you who think his ego and attitude has NO affect on the locker room are out to lunch. Like I said, I don't follow them THAT much but I DO know that he's been involved in altercations at practice at least TWICE (stick swinging/slashing) with another teammate, it might even be more than that.

Yeah, that stuff will happen sometimes but for it to happen TWICE for a guy 3 years in the league, sure does sound like all his teammates love him.

There are some Avs fans who watch the Habs as well and maybe they can chime in.

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Old
07-20-2012, 03:17 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
It's all good, you can believe whatever you want.

I actually live about 30 minutes north of Montreal and even though I don't really watch a lot of the Habs games, I do watch and listen to a lot of local TV and radio shows quite a bit.

I think there is a big difference between 'playing with swagger' [which is fine] and the way Subban 'comes off', especially his first 2 years in the league. You can play with swagger and still be humble. Those of you who think his ego and attitude has NO affect on the locker room are out to lunch. Like I said, I don't follow them THAT much but I DO know that he's been involved in altercations at practice at least TWICE (stick swinging/slashing) with another teammate, it might even be more than that.

Yeah, that stuff will happen sometimes but for it to happen TWICE for a guy 3 years in the league, sure does sound like all his teammates love him.

There are some Avs fans who watch the Habs as well and maybe they can chime in.
I do and I'm well aware of his altercations at practices, when you play a game as physical as hockey there's going to be some altercations, I know I had a fair share of ''misunderstandings'' with a couple of my really good friends when I was playing handball, that stuff happens.

And his teammates do love him.

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Old
07-20-2012, 03:18 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
I do and I'm well aware of his altercations at practices, when you play as physical as hockey there's going to be some altercations, I know I had a fair share of ''misunderstandings'' with a couple of my really good friends when I was playing handball, that stuff happens.

And his teammates do love him.
Especially Scott Gomez

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07-20-2012, 10:53 PM
  #34
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Given the trading relationship between Sherman and GM I doubt we would submit an offer sheet. But who knows, anything is possible.

Unless it was a ridiculous deal - complete over payment - Caps would surely match.

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07-20-2012, 11:21 PM
  #35
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Given the trading relationship between Sherman and GM I doubt we would submit an offer sheet. But who knows, anything is possible.

Unless it was a ridiculous deal - complete over payment - Caps would surely match.
Avs aren't the offer-sheet-ing kind

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07-21-2012, 07:27 AM
  #36
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Avs aren't the offer-sheet-ing kind
This.

It seems like the AVs have problems giving their own RFA offers at times. I really don't see them giving other team's RFAs offers. Not really worth even dreaming about at this point.

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07-21-2012, 09:01 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xgp View Post
Given the trading relationship between Sherman and GM I doubt we would submit an offer sheet. But who knows, anything is possible.

Unless it was a ridiculous deal - complete over payment - Caps would surely match.
The way i see it , The RFA marquet is probably the only point where 95% of the GM agree on something . Dont make an offer to my player and i wont make one on yours ....Maybe with the execption of the Flyers and the Oilers.

I think it's like a scratch my back i'll scratch yours mentality between GMs and
making an offer sheet on a player of another team would be like braking that " mentality or trust" that they have between them and put a target right on the head of one of a future RFA.

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Old
07-21-2012, 02:14 PM
  #38
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The way i see it , The RFA marquet is probably the only point where 95% of the GM agree on something . Dont make an offer to my player and i wont make one on yours ....Maybe with the execption of the Flyers and the Oilers.
The Weber situation is a unique situation thoguh and I don't think that there's anything wrong with it. This isn't a player coming off an ELC, it's a guy with one yr left on a deal who looks to be wanting out and the team planning to trade him. But that's not the point either, it's Shea Weber and if it means Philly loses Voracek or whoever then fine cos he's worth it.

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07-22-2012, 01:12 PM
  #39
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I'm not interested in pissing off other teams while we have a team full of young promising RFAs.
Very conscientious thinking I think Sacco would agree

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Old
07-22-2012, 06:56 PM
  #40
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The Weber situation is a unique situation thoguh and I don't think that there's anything wrong with it. This isn't a player coming off an ELC, it's a guy with one yr left on a deal who looks to be wanting out and the team planning to trade him. But that's not the point either, it's Shea Weber and if it means Philly loses Voracek or whoever then fine cos he's worth it.
It's not a unique situation with the Flyers , They did this a couple of time in the past. Chris Gratton, when he was playing in Tampa receved an offert sheet from the Flyers in the late 90's . The Flyers did it again with Ryan Kesler , i think it was in 2006 , i'm not exactly sure of the date for that last one .

As for the Oilers , they did the same with Penner and Vanek.

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07-22-2012, 07:56 PM
  #41
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There isn't really any evidence of offer sheeting players coming back to bite a team in the ass. Only example I can think of was Canucks offer sheeting Backes and Blues offer sheeting Bernier (and Canucks matching) a week later.

Other than that it doesn't seem to be a big deal. It's not like Flyers have had any trouble trading in the past either. I think as long as you tell the other team what is going to happen, there is no reason to hold a grudge. NHL is a business and GMs do what they think is best for their team.

I think the main reason we don't see a lot of offer sheets is that a) you have to have all the picks you have to give up as compensation and b) the salary have to be excessive for the other team to even think about not matching.

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