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Weber signed to offer sheet (TSN: 14 yrs, $110m, cap hit $7.8m per yr.) Part 2

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07-20-2012, 09:50 AM
  #151
Larry44
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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
Actually, (and I think Meltzer or someone else might have alluded to this too), I think it would make sense to move something like Voracek and Meszaros in place of a couple of 1sts to sweeten the deal. It allows the Predators to save a little face so that maybe they don't match just out of pride, it gives them some NHL players to help keep them afloat in the short term, it helps with the relationship between the Flyers and Predators for the future, and it sheds some salary and gives us some breathing room cap-wise.

I would still rather just give the 4 1sts and keep Voracek but if that's what it takes to get the deal done then it's worth it
.
Yes, it would be better to lose just the picks, but it makes MORE sense to do a side trade to make sure they don't match.

1. It would give the Preds a plausible hockey reason not to match. Four late round first picks are too far out to benefit them now.

2. As Eklund's blog correctly points out, Weber's agents have been all over the media making the argument he wants to play in Philly, period. He chose Philly over Van, Det. NYR and San Jose, cities he travelled to, to tour and meet with the teams. All those teams were either trying to trade for his rights, or preparing offer sheets too. He chose to sign the Flyers' offer sheet.

This gives the Preds a plausible emotional out: We could match financially, but Shea's heart is in Philly. Why would we want to lock up an unhappy player, esp. the captain, for 14 years? We blew it not giving him the 3 year x $7M deal he wanted last summer, opting for arbitration and insulting him with a $5M offer. We screwed up, he's gone, let's face it and move on and get what we can out of it.

3. The main reason to sweeten the pot at all is that we REALLY don't want them to match, then have to reacquire him next year by trade.

We have too many D now anyway, so Meszaros could go (not Coburn). We could even add Read or Simmonds (not Voracek), and then we might be able to sign Doan at RW.

If Doan is moving, why not Philly? Weber and Fedotenko have already signed up because they want to win a Cup and think the Flyers are their best chance. Feds left the Rangers to do it! Weber snubbed the Rags, Wings, Sharks and Canucks. Do these players know something?

Things could really line up well for the Flyers if they continue to play this right. Weber's done his part, cutting his ties to the Preds, who would be dumb to match now and pay an unhappy player.

If we need to add a little encouragement to sweeten the pot, we should do it. You know that if the Preds match, they will not include the NMC that the Flyers have promised him (but that can't be part of the Offer Sheet). You also know that the Rangers have already called Poile to say "match and we'll trade you for him next summer whether he wants to come here or not." We need to avoid that scenario.

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07-20-2012, 09:51 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
A yes or no question that's entirely based on willingness to spend. It's not that matching this offer sheet is going to make Nashville to go bankrupt by the end of the year. But it would be bad business nonetheless.
I guess our disagreement is over Nashville's desire to keep him. I think if their owners decide they want to pay it, they simply will because they love him and want to have something to sell to their season ticket holders. You seem to think that there's some middle ground where they'd prefer to trade him and get 4 quarters for a dollar. I think a move like that might make sense for some teams, not Nashville after already losing Suter.

We shall see.

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07-20-2012, 09:53 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by jd2210 View Post
"We're here to announce that our captain who clearly wants out is now signed to a 14 year deal that was constructed by another team. He is stuck here whether he wants to be or not."
And since he declined to attend the press conference in Nashville announcing the signing of a contract he didn't want, we've stripped him of his C on the eve of Training Camp.

Buy your Preds Seasons tickets now: The Season of Acrimony is Here!

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07-20-2012, 09:54 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
I guess our disagreement is over Nashville's desire to keep him. I think if their owners decide they want to pay it, they simply will because they love him and want to have something to sell to their season ticket holders. You seem to think that there's some middle ground where they'd prefer to trade him and get 4 quarters for a dollar. I think a move like that might make sense for some teams, not Nashville after already losing Suter.

We shall see.
I'm not talking about trading Weber (which can't be done). I'm talking about giving Nashville a little extra "push" in the right direction to guarantee that they don't match the offer sheet.

Ultimately, it's impossible for us to really know if this is a good idea or not without being inside the situation.

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07-20-2012, 09:57 AM
  #155
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Pred's can't match, so if they want to trade some of the Flyers firsts back for players. Why would the Flyers even consider it? I rather trade Mez, Jake, MAB for Bobby Ryan. LOL

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07-20-2012, 10:01 AM
  #156
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If the Preds don't match aren't the Flyers vulnerable to an offer sheet for Jakub Voracek? I know as a Canucks' fan I'd try and grab him in a heartbeat.

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07-20-2012, 10:01 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Flyers Time View Post
Pred's can't match, so if they want to trade some of the Flyers firsts back for players. Why would the Flyers even consider it? I rather trade Mez, Jake, MAB for Bobby Ryan. LOL
Because technically the Preds alway can match, even if it's insanely stupid to do so.

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07-20-2012, 10:04 AM
  #158
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If the Preds don't match aren't the Flyers vulnerable to an offer sheet for Jakub Voracek? I know as a Canucks' fan I'd try and grab him in a heartbeat.
The Flyers would match for sure, it's really not worth it to anyone to do that.

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07-20-2012, 10:05 AM
  #159
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Weber had to be pissed and insulted when they offered him $4.5 million in arbitration last summer yet he had a good season. If he ends up back there, they'll figure out a way to spin it. He signed this offer sheet knowing he'd only end up in one of the two cities for the rest of his career, if he really wanted out he would have sucked it up for a year and become a UFA.


Last edited by MsWoof: 07-20-2012 at 12:27 PM.
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07-20-2012, 10:06 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by CommonMeans View Post
If the Preds don't match aren't the Flyers vulnerable to an offer sheet for Jakub Voracek? I know as a Canucks' fan I'd try and grab him in a heartbeat.
No, the flyers would just match.

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07-20-2012, 10:07 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Flyers Time View Post
Pred's can't match, so if they want to trade some of the Flyers firsts back for players. Why would the Flyers even consider it? I rather trade Mez, Jake, MAB for Bobby Ryan. LOL
I'm not so sure the Preds can't match. Bret Wilson, one of their minority owners, is made of money. They can come up with cash if they want to. We don't want them to, so we might need to encourage them not to.

If we don't at least offer some kind of trade back, I really think they will match.

Yes, it keeps him out of the East if they do, and their franchise is screwed either way.

The Flyers are in a position to give them an out and get what WE REALLY WANT: Shea Weber in #6 on the Flyers first pairing....

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07-20-2012, 10:09 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Weber had to be pissed and insulated when they offered him $4.5 million in arbitration last summer yet he had a good season. If he ends up back there, they'll figure out a way to spin it. He signed this offer sheet knowing hed only end up in one of the two cities for the rest of his career, if he really wanted out he would have sucked it up for a year and become a UFA.
Not only that but if they thought Weber was worth Couturier and Schenn+ then they should have resigned him to the money he wanted. He should of took that 7.5million 3 year deal Shea wanted. Pollie might be good at building teams and being competitive but he is terrible at retaining his assets. Hartnell, Timonen, Suter, and possibly Weber have all left the franchise because they couldn't pony up the cash. He waits to long to get deals done that leaves him in terrible situations. Especially around free agency when the market gets set. He's terrible at retaining his assets.

Holmgren knows they don't have the cash to match. I bet Webers agent made this clear that they weren't getting the deal they wanted with Nashville.

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07-20-2012, 10:13 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
I'm not talking about trading Weber (which can't be done). I'm talking about giving Nashville a little extra "push" in the right direction to guarantee that they don't match the offer sheet.

Ultimately, it's impossible for us to really know if this is a good idea or not without being inside the situation.
I'm talking about the secondary deal - something like the Voracek and Meszaros for two of our #1s back. No, they can't technically trade him.

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07-20-2012, 10:13 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Weber had to be pissed and insulated when they offered him $4.5 million in arbitration last summer yet he had a good season. If he ends up back there, they'll figure out a way to spin it. He signed this offer sheet knowing hed only end up in one of the two cities for the rest of his career, if he really wanted out he would have sucked it up for a year and become a UFA.
Weber's agent offered them a 3 year 7m per contract and poile turned it down


And damn. From now til July 1st, nashville will pay 34m for Rinne and Weber

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07-20-2012, 10:13 AM
  #165
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. Hartnell, Timonen, Suter, and possibly Weber have all left the franchise because they couldn't pony up the cash.
Also Hamhuis. Throw in Radulov and that's a lot of talent leaving that team via FA

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07-20-2012, 10:15 AM
  #166
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Also Hamhuis. Throw in Radulov and that's a lot of talent leaving that team via FA
All home grown talent. Radulov is a exception because he was just a dick.

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07-20-2012, 10:17 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Weber had to be pissed and insulated when they offered him $4.5 million in arbitration last summer yet he had a good season. If he ends up back there, they'll figure out a way to spin it. He signed this offer sheet knowing hed only end up in one of the two cities for the rest of his career, if he really wanted out he would have sucked it up for a year and become a UFA.
That's true, but he risked the new CBA limiting these long term, bonus driven contracts. This gave him the opportunity to play for either a team that will go the distance to win the cup, or go back to the team he is used to.

This is the exact kind of deal he wanted and Nashville was not willing to give it for the past two seasons. Now Nashville is backed into a corner.

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07-20-2012, 10:18 AM
  #168
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All home grown talent. Radulov is a exception because he was just a dick.
Well put. Nashville has been hemorrhaging talent for a couple years now

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07-20-2012, 10:21 AM
  #169
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I'm not so sure the Preds can't match. Bret Wilson, one of their minority owners, is made of money. They can come up with cash if they want to. We don't want them to, so we might need to encourage them not to.

If we don't at least offer some kind of trade back, I really think they will match.

Yes, it keeps him out of the East if they do, and their franchise is screwed either way.

The Flyers are in a position to give them an out and get what WE REALLY WANT: Shea Weber in #6 on the Flyers first pairing....
Just because someone has the money does not mean they are going to spend it. The owners want a successful franchise by different definition than the fans want a successful franchise.

Weber's cost vs. projected fiscal return; and they have to consider risk of the investment (almost non of this money is able to be insured, possible lockout, injury, etc...), length of time before the investment shows a return, length of time that investment will show a return (how long will the player be able to play), etc... .

Would the owners rather have $27 million dollars this year and take a revenue hit (IMO, I don't think it will "kill" the franchise if Weber goes); or, would they rather commit to $80 million dollars over the next six years and hope that the revenue grows enough to show a profit at some point?

I can't tell the future, but it seems to me (especially considering the money owed to Rinne) that Nashville really cant afford Weber and also be able to ice a complete team.

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07-20-2012, 10:22 AM
  #170
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Also Hamhuis. Throw in Radulov and that's a lot of talent leaving that team via FA
Timonen and Hartnell were traded because our owner ordered a fire-sale in his plans to sell the franchise to Jim Baisillie at the time.

Not quite the same thing.

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07-20-2012, 10:24 AM
  #171
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Is there a NTC in the offer sheet weber got would homer do that.

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07-20-2012, 10:24 AM
  #172
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Timonen and Hartnell were traded because our owner ordered a fire-sale in his plans to sell the franchise to Jim Baisillie at the time.

Not quite the same thing.
they were going to FA a few weeks later, who knows if they would have resigned or not

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07-20-2012, 10:25 AM
  #173
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This is a move that Flyers must make. I am NOT Monday am quarterbacking, click on my name and check previous posts and see how many times I have argued and insisted that Flyers defense is absolute garbage, consisting of a former star Timonen who is now old and breaking down, plus a collection of second pair guys.

The defense corps as constituted virtually guarantees quick PO exits for years to come, and other than Weber no Dman good enough will be available for awhile (Edler is NOT Weber).

I have been screaming for months thaat Suter or Weber or preferably both must be had, one way or another.

With this move, I think Flyers ownership is thinking exactly as I am.

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07-20-2012, 10:26 AM
  #174
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they were going to FA a few weeks later, who knows if they would have resigned or not
That is only speculation, much like putting the cart before the horse.

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07-20-2012, 10:27 AM
  #175
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I'm confused by the main board, not shocking I know, and their idea on how Nash should sign Weber and then trade him.

They say "Have to match. He's the face of the franchise, captain, and you'll lose the fan base, and sink the franchise if you don't match."

Then they go on to say "They can just trade him in a year for a better package than 4 1st round picks."

Disregarding the $27 million they'd be paying in one year, how the hell does that make sense? Would he no longer be the face of the franchise, captain, and would you no longer lose the fan base, and sink the franchise in a year?

In fact it'd be worse since your fan base now thinks he's a Pred for life, and then you ship him out a year later.

I don't get it.

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