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Oilers re-sign Sam Gagner (1yr/$3.2M)

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Old
07-20-2012, 11:48 AM
  #101
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As to the contract I'm confused by it all round.

A one year deal basically confirms Gagner at this point isn't in the plans here.

Barring injury he'll smash his production records, will up his contract cost for next year, and will likely be gone. I don't see how this plays out much differently.

But why would the Gagner camp agree to this when the arbitration award would likely be North of this?

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07-20-2012, 11:57 AM
  #102
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I'd say it's more like "We can't give you a decent pay until we figure out what to do with Horcoff". Gagner will stay an Oiler.

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07-20-2012, 11:59 AM
  #103
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As to the contract I'm confused by it all round.

A one year deal basically confirms Gagner at this point isn't in the plans here.

Barring injury he'll smash his production records, will up his contract cost for next year, and will likely be gone. I don't see how this plays out much differently.

But why would the Gagner camp agree to this when the arbitration award would likely be North of this?
This isn't necessarily a bad thing, if he starts smashing records he also up's his value. Then the Oilers can decide if we want to include him in the final stages of the re-build or to use him as bait acquire a bigger #2 C or #1-2D. It's all about finding a fair value for his next contract.

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07-20-2012, 12:00 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
As to the contract I'm confused by it all round.

A one year deal basically confirms Gagner at this point isn't in the plans here.

Barring injury he'll smash his production records, will up his contract cost for next year, and will likely be gone. I don't see how this plays out much differently.

But why would the Gagner camp agree to this when the arbitration award would likely be North of this?
This is why:

Quote:
Barring injury he'll smash his production records, will up his contract cost for next year,

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07-20-2012, 12:04 PM
  #105
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I really don't see the downside of this deal, besidse the fact that if he plays well his next contract will be more expensive. But really...what's wrong with that. If he is posting 60ish points he would deserve a better contract.

People would complain about the term if it was longer than 2 years because they would worry about not being about to sign the big 4.

The price is great!

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07-20-2012, 12:06 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by AUAIOMRN View Post
It's not common sense. It's "I want to view the NHL like a videogame where every ideal piece can be acquired".

You guys basically want a bigger, stronger, version of Gagner that will be the same on offense. So does every other team in the league.
Every good team does have a better 2 way version of Gagner at #2C, that's kind of the point. Sure, it's fine having Gagner on the team now since the team is still in the infantry phase and they don't have a viable replacement but as the team improves and the games get tougher, they will in all likelihood ....unless Gagner somehow shows something different than we have been seeing over the last 5 years..... need to get stronger down the middle.

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07-20-2012, 12:07 PM
  #107
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So when Gagner puts up 50 points again next year, do we give him another 2 year deal? I thought he would have signed around 3.8-4m a year over 5 years similar to the oshie contract.

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07-20-2012, 12:08 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
This is why:
Well of course but he should capitalize on that anyway.

Whats the diff?

Other than he could've been earning some more coin for his efforts this year through the arbitration award.

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07-20-2012, 12:10 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
So when Gagner puts up 50 points again next year, do we give him another 2 year deal? I thought he would have signed around 3.8-4m a year over 5 years similar to the oshie contract.
50 points again? He hasn't hit 50 even once.

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07-20-2012, 12:13 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
As to the contract I'm confused by it all round.

A one year deal basically confirms Gagner at this point isn't in the plans here.

Barring injury he'll smash his production records, will up his contract cost for next year, and will likely be gone. I don't see how this plays out much differently.

But why would the Gagner camp agree to this when the arbitration award would likely be North of this?
Obviously Gagners' agent feels different.

Truth is...most of the time players file for arbitration they end up settling before it goes to mediation. I would also say... most of the time both parties recognize its not neccesary to utilize outside perspectives in order to reach an agreement. Especially when there is always a significant potential for "hard feelings".

But your right...the Oilers have (twice now) avoided making any more than a bare minimum commitment to Gagner. They appear to have a plan for him...but...the plan is to continue to look/hope for someone better.

And I think thats a good idea. Were not really likely to replace Gagner with a player who will provide more MUCH more production than he does....but...as you & I have already agreed in the past...we probably need a different TYPE of player than Gagner in the #2 centre spot.

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07-20-2012, 12:19 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
This is why:
But arbitration is only a 1 or 2 year deal, I believe at the team's discretion. The Oilers weren't going to give him 2 years, so he likely would've been given a 1 year deal through arbitration anyways, giving him the same leverage for his next contract.

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07-20-2012, 12:20 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by missedpicks View Post
I really don't see the downside of this deal, besidse the fact that if he plays well his next contract will be more expensive. But really...what's wrong with that. If he is posting 60ish points he would deserve a better contract.

People would complain about the term if it was longer than 2 years because they would worry about not being about to sign the big 4.

The price is great!
Theres a lot of potential downside.

If Gagner hits it out of the ballpark this year he increases his dollar cost for next year immensely. Meaning that the Oilers have to pay much more for the same player instead of maybe going for a longer term contract at a more reasonable rate and more in line what our future capspace needs will be.

Note as well that just because Gagner increases his pts total considerably, and increases his contractual value considerably it doesn't necessarily increase his trade value in the same way.
WE never seem to get trade value in stock here.

We've basically just set the stage for a Gagner increase in payment next year and depending on how much the club just deciding to trade him for much the same return they would get this year. I don't see the trade value increasing considerably. Just the contract price.

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07-20-2012, 12:21 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Theres a lot of potential downside.

If Gagner hits it out of the ballpark this year he increases his dollar cost for next year immensely. Meaning that the Oilers have to pay much more for the same player instead of maybe going for a longer term contract at a more reasonable rate and more in line what our future capspace needs will be.

Note as well that just because Gagner increases his pts total considerably, and increases his contractual value considerably it doesn't necessarily increase his trade value in the same way.
WE never seem to get trade value in stock here.

We've basically just set the stage for a Gagner increase in payment next year and depending on how much the club just deciding to trade him for much the same return they would get this year. I don't see the trade value increasing considerably. Just the contract price.
OR they increased his trade value. Of course his trade value will increase if he has a big year.

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07-20-2012, 12:21 PM
  #114
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I don't mind this deal, he'd still be attractive as a trading chip with this contract and one year left as a RFA. The question I have is this, does he start the year as an Oiler? IIRC this is his 2nd consecutive 1 year contract which tells me that we haven't seen enough from him to warrant a long term commitment to this player. To be fair a 2 year deal would've been a really bad move as it would've taken him to UFA.

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07-20-2012, 12:21 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
So when Gagner puts up 50 points again next year, do we give him another 2 year deal? I thought he would have signed around 3.8-4m a year over 5 years similar to the oshie contract.
Gagner has never hit 50 points. In his five years, he has hit 49, 41, 41, 42, 47 points.

Oshie isn't a bad comparable - who has hit 39, 48, 41, 54 but in fewer games than Sam. So Oshie's ppg is higher than Gagner.

The problems isn't the dollars it's the term.

What is Sam Gagner? Is he a 50 point centre? Is he a 60 point centre? Can he handle tougher opposition? He hasn't so far.

If the Oilers were to offer a 5 year term, at what - $4 million per. Those are Oshie like numbers - is Sam Gagner as good?

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07-20-2012, 12:22 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Theres a lot of potential downside.

If Gagner hits it out of the ballpark this year he increases his dollar cost for next year immensely. Meaning that the Oilers have to pay much more for the same player instead of maybe going for a longer term contract at a more reasonable rate and more in line what our future capspace needs will be.

Note as well that just because Gagner increases his pts total considerably, and increases his contractual value considerably it doesn't necessarily increase his trade value in the same way.
WE never seem to get trade value in stock here.

We've basically just set the stage for a Gagner increase in payment next year and depending on how much the club just deciding to trade him for much the same return they would get this year. I don't see the trade value increasing considerably. Just the contract price.
Does Gagner playing next season with the potential of getting a big contract put up the same numbers as a Gagner who has already signed a 4 or 5 year deal?

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07-20-2012, 12:27 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Hope4theFuture View Post
But arbitration is only a 1 or 2 year deal, I believe at the team's discretion. The Oilers weren't going to give him 2 years, so he likely would've been given a 1 year deal through arbitration anyways, giving him the same leverage for his next contract.
Exactly.

I'm not sure if the Gagner camp we're giving in to the "its bad to go all the way to arbitration" They did that anyway and it went 11th hour. I don't see optics being any different.

Theres been a signal here from both sides.

From the Oiler its "you're not in our plan Sam."

From Gagner camp "We'll look at our best options and continue to do so"


Neither side committing to Sam being here. This will make for some odd moments and decisions in the coming year.

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07-20-2012, 12:29 PM
  #118
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i like it

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07-20-2012, 12:31 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Theres a lot of potential downside.

If Gagner hits it out of the ballpark this year he increases his dollar cost for next year immensely. Meaning that the Oilers have to pay much more for the same player instead of maybe going for a longer term contract at a more reasonable rate and more in line what our future capspace needs will be.

Note as well that just because Gagner increases his pts total considerably, and increases his contractual value considerably it doesn't necessarily increase his trade value in the same way.
WE never seem to get trade value in stock here.

We've basically just set the stage for a Gagner increase in payment next year and depending on how much the club just deciding to trade him for much the same return they would get this year. I don't see the trade value increasing considerably. Just the contract price.
I think...if & when Gagners' time as an Oiler ends...he leaves here as part of a package deal not unlike how Brandon Sutter was used to aqcuire Jordan Staal.

Sutters' trade stock had actually "dipped" after last season...but...he became an ideal piece.

I guess my point is...just because a players' trade value isn't optimized...doesn't mean you can't still make the trade you MOST want to make.

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07-20-2012, 12:32 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
OR they increased his trade value. Of course his trade value will increase if he has a big year.
Disagree.

It just doesn't happen here. With this management especially.

This is not a club that drives trade value, and this is not necessarily a league that gives it.


The Oilers seem to think that this is Win Win, That Gagner increases trade value. But without realizing that they just aren't any good at horsetrading in the first place.

Any time this org sets the table for trading a good player for any beans they can get I'm doing a facepalm.

If traded Sam Gagner will be of greater value somewhere else than what we get in return.

You could mark that one down.

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07-20-2012, 12:34 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
I think...if & when Gagners' time as an Oiler ends...he leaves here as part of a package deal not unlike how Brandon Sutter was used to aqcuire Jordan Staal.

Sutters' trade stock had actually "dipped" after last season...but...he became an ideal piece.

I guess my point is...just because a players' trade value isn't optimized...doesn't mean you can't still make the trade you MOST want to make.
Well, I don't trust this org to capitalize on value in trade so we're disagreed on a move being good.

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07-20-2012, 12:35 PM
  #122
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Here's a crazy thought; What if Sam has an exception season and we extend him for good money for 5 years and he continues to grow with the team and everyone is happy in the end?

I'm asking too much of HF right now...

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07-20-2012, 12:35 PM
  #123
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It's crazy how down-to-the-wire these negotiations can get. #Oilers/Gagner had arrived and were waiting for their arbitration hearing.
Wow. I can just imagine that scene, sitting in the waiting room, awkward silence. Finally, Olczyk turns to Gagner and his agent, "3.2?". "Okay."


Last edited by stratedge: 07-20-2012 at 12:52 PM. Reason: Olczyk not Tambo.
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07-20-2012, 12:40 PM
  #124
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I think Gagner wants to be an Oiler, the Oilers want him to be here, but neither side is really sure how valuable he is. I think the one year deal was a mutual decision, and both sides are happy waiting another year in hopes of Gagner establishing himself as part of the young core going forward.

As for avoiding arbitration, Gagner's incentive to do that was to avoid losing the ruling and having to take the two years at the lower price. This way, he knows he's back on the market next year.

I think both sides will be more than satisfied if Gagner turns into a $5 million player by the end of next season.

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07-20-2012, 12:45 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
Gagner has never hit 50 points. In his five years, he has hit 49, 41, 41, 42, 47 points.

Oshie isn't a bad comparable - who has hit 39, 48, 41, 54 but in fewer games than Sam. So Oshie's ppg is higher than Gagner.

The problems isn't the dollars it's the term.

What is Sam Gagner? Is he a 50 point centre? Is he a 60 point centre? Can he handle tougher opposition? He hasn't so far.

If the Oilers were to offer a 5 year term, at what - $4 million per. Those are Oshie like numbers - is Sam Gagner as good?
Oshie also brings a lot more to the table than just points. Can't say the same about Gagner.

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Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
Wow. I can just imagine that scene, sitting in the waiting room, awkward silence. Finally, Tambellini turns to Gagner and his agent, "3.2?". "Okay."
LOL. That's pretty funny.

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