HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Any news on Winchester or Gilroy?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-19-2012, 06:34 AM
  #26
Caeldan
Moderator
 
Caeldan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,490
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfan View Post
Really??...Murray just traded one bucket of pucks for another bucket of pucks....Lee had no future here either...it was worth rolling the dice and getting a free look at a player
Lee was usually pretty effective when paired with Phillips, and I think he'd have a spot to fit in this year.
Apparently Tampa saw something in him considering they gave a two year deal.

I think that was probably one of Murrays worst trades if he just allows Gilroy to walk, especially when the justification at time of trade (wish I could recall where the quote was from) was that Gilroy would need some adjustments and might not fit in right away but come next season will be ready.

Caeldan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2012, 09:32 AM
  #27
Proust
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,393
vCash: 500
Winchester should probably retire. He has a college degree, so he could probably get a job at an H & R Block as a receptionist or something. Nothing wrong with that...

Proust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2012, 09:50 AM
  #28
BonkTastic
"Small Sample Size!"
 
BonkTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jakarta, IDN
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,540
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caeldan View Post
Lee was usually pretty effective when paired with Phillips, and I think he'd have a spot to fit in this year.
Apparently Tampa saw something in him considering they gave a two year deal.

I think that was probably one of Murrays worst trades if he just allows Gilroy to walk, especially when the justification at time of trade (wish I could recall where the quote was from) was that Gilroy would need some adjustments and might not fit in right away but come next season will be ready.
If the Gilroy-Lee deal is ACTUALLY one of Murray's "worst trades", I would put Bryan Murray as one of the single best traders in the NHL. I mean, if THAT is one of your worst trades, you're doing something right.

People needs to get over this.

"Losing" the Lee-Gilroy deal is like a stock broker losing $50 on penny stocks. Took a chance, and even though it backfired, you barely lost anything.

BonkTastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2012, 02:27 PM
  #29
CanadianHockey
Smith - Alfie
 
CanadianHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,789
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
He had a 3.8 shooting percentage last year.
3.4 the year before.
2.6 the year before that.
2.6 the year before that.

i'm all for an energy guy, but if i'm signing a guy who's pretty much guaranteed not to score more than 5 goals in a season, he better be a selke calibre forward or a big shutdown dman.
I said I'd love him as a 13th forward - a guy who fills in when we've got injuries and is limited to playing on the fourth line. In an ideal world, sure, you get a guy who can score five more goals a year, but realistically, most teams aren't reliant on their fourth lines to chip in big offensive numbers, and most fourth liners aren't expected to put up more than 10 goals in a year. I don't see the harm in re-signing Winchester to play fourth line minutes with some PK duty every once in a while.

Even if you do want to argue the 'won't score more than five goals a season' line, Neil scored 6 in 10-11, would you argue he wasn't worth anything on the basis that he doesn't score? Five goals a season from a 13th forward or fourth liner isn't going to make or break your team.

__________________
CanadianHockey________ __ __________Sens, Oilers, and Team Canada
CanadianHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2012, 06:43 PM
  #30
OmniSens
@OmniSenators
 
OmniSens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 38,865
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to OmniSens
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liliaceae View Post
I love Winny, I want to see him back.
Didn't even know you watched hockey.

I heard that Gilroy drank a glass of water today. Thsts the latest.

I don't want him back. Winchester, maybe.

OmniSens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2012, 07:05 PM
  #31
Ed Wood
Registered User
 
Ed Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,039
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfan View Post
Really??...Murray just traded one bucket of pucks for another bucket of pucks....Lee had no future here either...it was worth rolling the dice and getting a free look at a player
This is as dumb a statement as I have ever read on here although I have to admit to reading various versions of this very sentiment from other posters. When you trade a better player for a lesser player you lose the trade. Period. If Lee had no future here then that's Bryan Murrays' folly. It was not worth a roll of the dice. It was a case of atrocious pro scouting resulting in a trade for a player who simply wasn't NHL caliber.

Ed Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2012, 09:34 PM
  #32
DylanSensFan
Walk On!
 
DylanSensFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,136
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romans12_12 View Post
I never understood other fans love for Winchester. The guy is a borderline NHL player that will probably spend the rest of his career in the AHL as a "veteran." I cannot recall one time I ever watched a Sens game and was like "WOW!" over something Winchester did. He simply existed (imo anyway).
He was a face-off winning machine.

DylanSensFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2012, 10:57 PM
  #33
Sens Rule
Registered User
 
Sens Rule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wood View Post
This is as dumb a statement as I have ever read on here although I have to admit to reading various versions of this very sentiment from other posters. When you trade a better player for a lesser player you lose the trade. Period. If Lee had no future here then that's Bryan Murrays' folly. It was not worth a roll of the dice. It was a case of atrocious pro scouting resulting in a trade for a player who simply wasn't NHL caliber.
He mostly wanted to get rid of Lee. Didn't want him for the playoffs. Decided he would see if Gilroy's skating could work on the uptempo Sens style... his skating might have but his brain could not function well enough.

Lee was not a good fit here. He never, ever fit in. He could be a passable defensive defenceman and that was not his fit really in any shape or form. He got more aggressive but he is a light weight. I wish Lee well. And he sure made efforts to get better and fit his square peg in a round hole. And he rarely complained.

We don't know... maybe Murray did it as a favour to Lee. Traded him to a good fit for him and thought Tampa might be a team he could be a square peg for and get another NHL deal. He wasn't going to get another contract in Ottawa. Murray traded Fisher to Nashville which was a huge favour to him. I think Murray could possibly have made the trade to give Lee a fresh start. It could have been Yzerman just not wanting Gilroy and Murray not wanting Lee. They talk a bit and decide to do both players a favour and give them 20 game tryouts for new teams.

This was such a nothing trade. It is like two team swapping 2013 7th round picks. Much adieu about nothing. It was two guys not going to be resigned by their teams that are 6th D-Men.

I kind of lean towards Murray being a decent guy and sending Lee somewhere where he could fit in and get another NHL contract as one of the more significant aspects of the trade. But who knows? That is just a guess on my part.

The Anderson-Elliott trade is kinda similar except they both probably had more value then 6/7 D-Men. Colorado wanted to get rid of Anderson and Ottawa wanted to get rid of Elliott. It was more about getting rid of their own guy then who they got... well more for Colorado there. I think Ottawa really wanted Anderson.

If at the end of the last 2 years Murray makes two trades for similar reasons to get rid of a guy in a certain roster spot and get a guy from another team that is being dumped for the same roster spot... And somehow we get Anderson out of it... I'll give the 1 out of 2 wins in the trade some high marks for picking up our solid starting goalie.

Sens Rule is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 06:54 AM
  #34
Quo
Moderator
...
 
Quo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Hamsterdam
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,532
vCash: 500
Adieu = french for goodbye, literally something like "go with God"

Ado = funny late 14th century English meaning trouble, fuss etc., used as a compound of "to do" as in the Shakesperian play "Much Ado About Nothing" whereby that phrase enjoys its modern popularity.

Oh...and I agree, unpregnant be this Brian Lee query. Fie upon it! Fie and fie again!

Quo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 08:42 AM
  #35
The King of Town
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caeldan View Post
I think that was probably one of Murrays worst trades if he just allows Gilroy to walk
That sort of thinking is so incredibly flawed

The King of Town is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 10:02 AM
  #36
Caeldan
Moderator
 
Caeldan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,490
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The King of Town View Post
That sort of thinking is so incredibly flawed
How so?
He moved one asset, who was originally a very high pick for another who he admits almost immediately is a project.

Then allows the project to leave without compensation?

I still disagree as well that Lee was a bad fit here. I think he took a lot of flack for his draft position and the resulting woulda coulda shoulda and that it was more public perception working against him than anything else.

He did play very well in stretches when given the chance especially paired with Phillips. But for one reason or another was always the first bumped out of the lineup.

Caeldan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 10:21 AM
  #37
aragorn
YES WE CAN
 
aragorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Azores
Posts: 11,311
vCash: 500
To me signing JOB to a one way contract pretty much sealed Winchester's fate of not being re-signed. I still think they could have used Gilroy as a right hand shot but Gryba is a right hand shot, bigger & meaner, nice to have him back too although it's likely he will play in Bingo & be a call up this yr.

aragorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 01:09 PM
  #38
Ice-Tray
Registered User
 
Ice-Tray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caeldan View Post
How so?
He moved one asset, who was originally a very high pick for another who he admits almost immediately is a project.

Then allows the project to leave without compensation?

I still disagree as well that Lee was a bad fit here. I think he took a lot of flack for his draft position and the resulting woulda coulda shoulda and that it was more public perception working against him than anything else.

He did play very well in stretches when given the chance especially paired with Phillips. But for one reason or another was always the first bumped out of the lineup.
Dude, do you really think that Murray and McLean didn't use Lee because of where he was drafted? Do you really think that they didn't want him going forward based on perceptions? Come on man give your head a shake, he was an average player that couldn't play the puck possession and skating style that McLean is running. Perceptions and draft numbers are for fans to haggle over, not general managers and coaches of professional hockey teams...

The statement is flawed because you're attaching value and making a judgment based on your opinion. YOU think Lee is a good player, YOU think that he could have been part of this team, and because of this YOU think we lost out on something.

This thinking is not based in reality.

The reality is that Murray and McLean made it very clear what they thought of Lee when they had him in the pressbox for most of the year. Murray made it quite clear that Lee was not part of the Sen's future, Murray made it quite clear that he traded Lee to give another D man an audition, since there was NO CHANCE THAT LEE WOULD BE BACK NEXT SEASON.

It's a good move to make when you don't value an asset and are planning on letting it go for nothing in a few months, to trade it for whatever you can get, especially when you can get another player on an expiring contract who essentially auditions for a spot on your team. The fact that the audition failed doesn't make the move bad because in the end we end up exactly where we planned to be anyways; without Lee. Gilroy fitting in would have been a bonus.

Also consider that it was a kind move by Murray to allow Lee to also audition for a spot on a team, making signing a contract easier if he could contribute. This guy passed unclaimed through waivers, and now he has a nice little 2 year contract. He wins, we're where we wanted to be anyways, so what's the big deal?

For one reason or another bumped out? That reason was that he wasn't very good, and couldn't play our style. Not really a mystery. The Lee love has always been perplexing. He wasn't treated poorly or mishandled by this organization, he just isn't very good, and never will be. He played a few good games here and there, which was always surprising, but was not good enough to hold down a roster spot. A decision made by our beloved Jack Adams finalist coach. Bottom pair defencemen are easily replaceable, and are always worth dropping or swapping when you can get a similarly talented guy who better fits your system.

The major problem here is that some posters are attributing more skill and value to Lee than he actually possesses. Let it go now, he's gone, and we can better use his spot (whether that be #6 d man or pressbox d man).

Ice-Tray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 01:18 PM
  #39
BonkTastic
"Small Sample Size!"
 
BonkTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jakarta, IDN
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,540
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caeldan View Post
How so?
He moved one asset, who was originally a very high pick for another who he admits almost immediately is a project.

Then allows the project to leave without compensation?

I still disagree as well that Lee was a bad fit here. I think he took a lot of flack for his draft position and the resulting woulda coulda shoulda and that it was more public perception working against him than anything else.

He did play very well in stretches when given the chance especially paired with Phillips. But for one reason or another was always the first bumped out of the lineup.
Who cares that Lee was a high pick? He was barely an NHL defenceman. If we had traded David Hale (another former 1st rounder) for a "project" when Hale was here, would you feel the same way? Lee is barely, barely better than Hale was, IMO.

BonkTastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 01:25 PM
  #40
PatrickEaves
We Lost
 
PatrickEaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,960
vCash: 500
The thing with Winchester is that he was our defensive faceoff specialist last year. Not only can he win faceoffs, he was actually good in the defensive zone (unlike Zenon who couldn't get the puck out to save his life)

It's just too bad he got cross-checked from behind into the boards (without a penalty) and might not be able to play again.

__________________
No, I'm not a girl. Stop asking!
---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBlQ4ybRWH8
PatrickEaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 01:40 PM
  #41
The King of Town
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caeldan View Post
How so?
He moved one asset, who was originally a very high pick for another who he admits almost immediately is a project.
You must be super excited about signing Hugh Jessiman if you care more about draft position than actual on-ice performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caeldan View Post
Then allows the project to leave without compensation?
He clearly didn't work out. Signing him to an extension just to "save" fans' perception of a trade would have been stupendously idiotic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caeldan View Post
I still disagree as well that Lee was a bad fit here. I think he took a lot of flack for his draft position and the resulting woulda coulda shoulda and that it was more public perception working against him than anything else.
Talk to Paul Maclean about that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caeldan View Post
He did play very well in stretches when given the chance especially paired with Phillips. But for one reason or another was always the first bumped out of the lineup.
That's the perfect definition of a plug. I can't believe he's still being talked about.

I think a lot of you are more in love with the idea of Lee than his actual play. If he'd been a third round pick you'd have all forgotten about him already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice-Tray View Post
It's a good move to make when you don't value an asset and are planning on letting it go for nothing in a few months, to trade it for whatever you can get, especially when you can get another player on an expiring contract who essentially auditions for a spot on your team. The fact that the audition failed doesn't make the move bad because in the end we end up exactly where we planned to be anyways; without Lee. Gilroy fitting in would have been a bonus.
Bang on.

I'm happy we made the Lee-Gilroy trade, because it means we won't have Gilroy here next season. If we don't make that trade, does Murray then go out and sign Gilroy this offseason? We know he was high on him as a college free agent...


Last edited by The King of Town: 07-20-2012 at 01:45 PM.
The King of Town is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 02:00 PM
  #42
Ice-Tray
Registered User
 
Ice-Tray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The King of Town View Post
You must be super excited about signing Hugh Jessiman if you care more about draft position than actual on-ice performance.


He clearly didn't work out. Signing him to an extension just to "save" fans' perception of a trade would have been stupendously idiotic.


Talk to Paul Maclean about that one.


That's the perfect definition of a plug. I can't believe he's still being talked about.

I think a lot of you are more in love with the idea of Lee than his actual play. If he'd been a third round pick you'd have all forgotten about him already.



Bang on.

I'm happy we made the Lee-Gilroy trade, because it means we won't have Gilroy here next season. If we don't make that trade, does Murray then go out and sign Gilroy this offseason? We know he was high on him as a college free agent...


Such a good point! Not to mention the audition thing worked out great for us with Andy

Ice-Tray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 03:01 PM
  #43
sg58
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice-Tray View Post
[/B]

Such a good point! Not to mention the audition thing worked out great for us with Andy
No matter if you're supposed to still call this a re-build and what-not, there's a big difference doing stuff like that in a lottery year and a playoff year.

The team was going into the playoffs and they made the team worse.

sg58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 03:51 PM
  #44
Micklebot
Registered User
 
Micklebot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,063
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
No matter if you're supposed to still call this a re-build and what-not, there's a big difference doing stuff like that in a lottery year and a playoff year.

The team was going into the playoffs and they made the team worse.
The team wasn't expected to make noise in the Playoffs, so the took a gamble for long term success.

Besides, I'm not sure how Lee for Gilroy really made the team worse. Neither were very good, lateral move. Gilroy actually got more Ice time the Lee was getting, but that was probably to get a feel for what he could do.

In the end, if its your 6/7th d man playing 14 min a night that wins or loses you games, you've got a problem.

Micklebot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 04:09 PM
  #45
PKC*
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,552
vCash: 500
Is this stupid discussion still going on? We traded a 6/7 defenseman for a 6/7 defenseman. Have some perspective people.

PKC* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 06:02 PM
  #46
Orange Thunder
Registered User
 
Orange Thunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,721
vCash: 500
Gilroy eats babies

Orange Thunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 10:29 PM
  #47
slamigo
Skate or Die!
 
slamigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Jacob View Post
Gilroy eats babies
OMG Thank You! It's been weeks since I've thought about that.


slamigo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 10:36 PM
  #48
BlazingRoy
Cacaw
 
BlazingRoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 396
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slamigo View Post
OMG Thank You! It's been weeks since I've thought about that.

WTH is that drink over there? Chocolate milk or liquid ****

BlazingRoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 10:41 PM
  #49
MAK19
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 13,687
vCash: 500
Winchestertonfieldville, Iowa

MAK19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 11:43 PM
  #50
newfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wood View Post
This is as dumb a statement as I have ever read on here although I have to admit to reading various versions of this very sentiment from other posters. When you trade a better player for a lesser player you lose the trade. Period. If Lee had no future here then that's Bryan Murrays' folly. It was not worth a roll of the dice. It was a case of atrocious pro scouting resulting in a trade for a player who simply wasn't NHL caliber.
not sure how that is Bryan Murray's folly....Lee was drafted under Mucklers watch and he had the opportunity with at least 5 coaches (murray, Paddock, Hartsburg, Clouston, Maclean) and never really won a position with the team,

still a worth a roll of the dice.....

newfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:52 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.