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NHL Free Agency Thread 7 (Legit Sources ONLY) Shane Doan visiting Montreal (Post 400)

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07-20-2012, 02:15 PM
  #176
Coldplay
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Next years bonus is paid in the summer...so in a calender year, yes, he is getting $27 million.

May be I should have looked to see how many others already answered the question haha.
Can Nashville trade him before the second bonus (next summer's) kicks in, or does it only kick in 1 year after he's signed, so the last day before he can be dealt?

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07-20-2012, 02:18 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by MarkersMark View Post
I fail to see how Nashville has gone from a 104 point team to bottom feeder of the NHL by simply losing Suter.
if they lose weber, then yea i do see it, since their strong suit was their D, and those 2 were pretty much their offense and defense.

in a league of parity, those can set you back alot.

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07-20-2012, 02:31 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Can Nashville trade him before the second bonus (next summer's) kicks in, or does it only kick in 1 year after he's signed, so the last day before he can be dealt?
I think it kicks in on July first, which is the first day he can get traded. Remember when the Sens wanted to trade Heatley before July 1st so they wouldn't pay his 4M bonus? The ****er didn't want to get traded to EDM and ended up being traded after July 1st and getting his bonus from Melnyk.

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07-20-2012, 02:40 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Well, somehow, if he'd REALLY want out of there...again...why didn't he wait just 1 year? There were reports prior to that already that Poile would match any offer. Why would Weber take that chance? 'Cause Philly was too great an opportunity to pass on? Come on...there would have been tons of others like that next year. So if Poile match it, Weber WILL have to play hard for his team. At worst, he still needs to show that he will be amongst the best even with that kind of contract so if a trade is in order at one point, he needs to play hard to keep that value up. Even if we know that his value will always be up.

Yet, I totally understand Philly move. But it's just mind boggling to understand Weber's move if his goal #1 was to leave Nashville. Makes no sense to me. So either he won't mind Nashville. Either, he took a risk and understand the implications of it. Either, he'll be awaiting for a trade if Nashville match it. So the who cares for me works as far as Nashville is concerned. At worst, they'll have a pretty good return for him. At best, he plays good for them. If they don't match it, well it gives also a pretty good return....but surely not if they would be trading him. But Nashville has been doing a relatively okay job on the draft front.
Players should always avoid 1-year contracts if they can.

If they get injured, they can lose everything. Weber saw an opportunity to make 100 million, so he took it away before it risked being gone.

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07-20-2012, 02:42 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by MarkersMark View Post
I fail to see how Nashville has gone from a 104 point team to bottom feeder of the NHL by simply losing Suter.
They also lost Andrei Kostitsyn and Alexander Radulov, two guys who helped them down the stretch.

I don't blame them for losing Suter. But the way they treated Kostitsyn and Radulov makes them look like idiots.

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07-20-2012, 02:54 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
They also lost Andrei Kostitsyn and Alexander Radulov, two guys who helped them down the stretch.

I don't blame them for losing Suter. But the way they treated Kostitsyn and Radulov makes them look like idiots.
That's why they both have a contract in the NHL right now.

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07-20-2012, 02:56 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
They also lost Andrei Kostitsyn and Alexander Radulov, two guys who helped them down the stretch.

I don't blame them for losing Suter. But the way they treated Kostitsyn and Radulov makes them look like idiots.
I think they did that to themselves during the playoffs.

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07-20-2012, 03:00 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
I think they did that to themselves during the playoffs.
Right, by missing a 45 minute curfew.

You think Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf will be kicked off Team Canada for doing far, far, far worse things at this past World Championship than what Radulov did in these playoffs?

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07-20-2012, 03:01 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Right, by missing a 45 minute curfew.

You think Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf will be kicked off Team Canada for doing far, far, far worse things at this past World Championship than what Radulov did in these playoffs?
What did they do, or are you talking hypothetically?

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07-20-2012, 03:01 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by One Trick Pony View Post
That's why they both have a contract in the NHL right now.
It's the same reason Alexander Semin doesn't have a contract.

HINT: it's not about ability or work ethic.

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07-20-2012, 03:03 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Players should always avoid 1-year contracts if they can.

If they get injured, they can lose everything. Weber saw an opportunity to make 100 million, so he took it away before it risked being gone.
It's not just that, the league wants to eliminate these frontloaded long term deals and there are serious talks of limiting the length of all deals to 5 years maximum.

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07-20-2012, 03:03 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
What did they do, or are you talking hypothetically?
They were at a nightclub at 3am the night before a game where they were supposed to represent their country, contrast that to Radulov being 45 minutes late.

One of them also allegedly threatened other people at the bar with injury.

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07-20-2012, 03:05 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
It's not just that, the league wants to eliminate these frontloaded long term deals and there are serious talks of limiting the length of all deals to 5 years maximum.
That's a good point, thanks for the reminder.

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07-20-2012, 03:09 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Can Nashville trade him before the second bonus (next summer's) kicks in, or does it only kick in 1 year after he's signed, so the last day before he can be dealt?
That second bonus kicks in july 1st 2013 and they can't trade Weber before that so no they can't avoid paying the second bonus.

They are forced to pay 27M if they want to trade Weber after one season, there doesn't seem to be any way around it.

That's why teams have capologists. Such a brilliant move by the flyers.

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07-20-2012, 03:21 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
This mentality sickens me.
Nashville isn't even a "Failed market". It's not in the tier of the Atlantas, Phoenixes, etc. of the league. They're a mid-bottom revenue team in a fresh new market. You need to let these places grow. It's obvious Nashville was going somewhere.
Yup. I admit I have a soft spot for the Nashville Predators. I've gone to games there, heard the noise of their crowd. They do love hockey down there. That franchise can succeed. But if the NHL allows the Philadelphias, New Yorks, and Torontos to treat Nashville and teams like them as effective "farm teams", to bully them around with contract terms and dollars that those teams cannot hope to match, then the league should just come right out and say so. Just come right out and say, "We don't really give a damn about the small markets. We only want you here so the big market teams have a bigger variety of opponents to play, and can leverage your hard work in scouting & development. You actually want to win a championship? Don't be stupid. Know your place, suckers!!!"

MLB is at least honest that they don't give a damn about their small markets. The Yankees & Red Sox could play every ALCS for 20 years straight and they'd be just fine with it. Fans of teams like the KC Royals don't even register at MLB HQ. If that's what the NHL wants to be, fine - then stop being ****ing hypocrites about it. Take out the salary cap, take out the free agent restrictions, and just have at it. Don't put in a facade, tell everyone it's to help the small markets, then turn around and let the billionaires piss all over them.

Quote:
It's the same mentality as the MLB. I remember when the Expos, the best drafting team in the league was literally a feeder to actual teams. Your mentality leads to teams like the Yankees throwing obscene amounts of money at whoever they want in a pick and choose that cripples small franchises. I can't believe this mentality comes from people in Montreal, who had to see the Expos get ripped from us in this very way.

And remember, Montreal is a big hockey market, but we're never going to be giving the 14 million dollar contracts. If we start weeding out the small markets, eventually it's going to be us that's going to get shafted on mega contracts from billionaire franchises.
A-****ing-men.

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07-20-2012, 03:26 PM
  #191
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Nothing stops Nashville from matching the offer and keeping Weber for 14 years. If he decide he's going to sit out next season in protest, then they probably can recover the bonus or at least part of it. In the end, they can keep Weber for 14 years @ 7.8M, even if he does not want to play there.

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07-20-2012, 05:13 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Right, by missing a 45 minute curfew.

You think Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf will be kicked off Team Canada for doing far, far, far worse things at this past World Championship than what Radulov did in these playoffs?
Perry and Getlaf were at a meaningless tourney in Europe. It wasn't the Olympics or the Stanley Cup playoffs so let's not even go there. For all intensive purposes it could have been training camp.

The Preds had their franchise on the line as we can see now and AK and Rads had their head up their *****. All the team leaders Weber, Suter, Rinne etc were asked if the two in question should have been suspended and they all agreed they should. Think that happens to valuable players?

Funny how this is used to trash Semin but defend AK and Rads.

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07-20-2012, 05:19 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Perry and Getlaf were at a meaningless tourney in Europe. It wasn't the Olympics or the Stanley Cup playoffs so let's not even go there. For all intensive purposes it could have been training camp.

The Preds had their franchise on the line as we can see now and AK and Rads had their head up their *****. All the team leaders Weber, Suter, Rinne etc were asked if the two in question should have been suspended and they all agreed they should. Think that happens to valuable players?

Funny how this is used to trash Semin but defend AK and Rads.
1) Perry and Getzlaf were representing their country. It's an important tournament with best-of-1 rather than best-of-7 elimination. They were partyinng at 3am which makes them more than 45 minutes late.

2) I'm not trashing Semin, Radulov, or AK. I'd take any 2 of those on the Habs if we were not in a rebuilding/tanking year.

3) As for the predators. Good for the players, they said they agreed with management rather than saying management is idiotic. The fact they agreed with management on the record proves your point that management is right /sarc

Do you not expect the players to say "Management are looking for scapegoats. We need Radulov tonight. Bottom line is Trotz is being outcoached and he's looking to assign blame". ??? How come they didn't say that instead ???

The predators have lost AK46, Suter, and Radulov for nothing, and the Habs will be getting a high 2nd rounder next year.


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07-20-2012, 05:23 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
1) Perry and Getzlaf were representing their country. It's an important tournament with best-of-1 rather than best-of-7 elimination. They were partyinng at 3am which makes them more than 45 minutes late.

2) I'm not trashing Semin, Radulov, or AK. I'd take any 2 of those on the Habs if we were not in a rebuilding/tanking year.

3) As for the predators. Good for the players, they said they agreed with management rather than saying management is idiotic. The fact they agreed with management on the record proves your point that management is right.

The predators have lost AK46, Suter, and Radulov for nothing, and the Habs will be getting a high 2nd rounder next year.
Okay.

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07-20-2012, 05:26 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Perry and Getlaf were at a meaningless tourney in Europe. It wasn't the Olympics or the Stanley Cup playoffs so let's not even go there. For all intensive purposes it could have been training camp.

The Preds had their franchise on the line as we can see now and AK and Rads had their head up their *****. All the team leaders Weber, Suter, Rinne etc were asked if the two in question should have been suspended and they all agreed they should. Think that happens to valuable players?

Funny how this is used to trash Semin but defend AK and Rads.
If it's meaningless why did they even bother going there? Seems like a complete waste of time.

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07-20-2012, 05:40 PM
  #196
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Interesting that we Hab fans , with just a few exceptions, have the position that offer sheets are bad, violates a gentlemans agreement among GMs and are concerned about payback.
Flyers meanwhile go out and take a run at a franchise D-man who has it as all and their fans arent worried at all about gents agreements or payback. Of course they wouldnt because decades ago Bobby Clarke was, I think, the 1st GM to use the offer sheet to land Chris Gratton. Okay, it was a bad move because Gratton didnt deliver, but there has never been payback to the Flyers, its not like teams have spurned dealing with Flyer GMs either. Is there actually any team that has made an offer sheet been hit with a payback offer sheet by the team they tried to poach from, or even from any other team ? Dont know for sure, but dont think so.
Just thought it interesting the different way of looking at it, Flyers are aggressive and take no prisoners in trying to win. We are about playing fair ( even though Holmgren is as offer sheets are allowed of course ) and not upsetting others out of fear and not being able to ward off an attack on our RFAs. Having said that, seems the Weber offer sheet violates the CBA given that he gets double the cap max for a player in year one ie 20%of $70M is $14M and he gets $27M 1st year. Hope NHL kills it.

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07-20-2012, 05:53 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
Interesting that we Hab fans , with just a few exceptions, have the position that offer sheets are bad, violates a gentlemans agreement among GMs and are concerned about payback.
Flyers meanwhile go out and take a run at a franchise D-man who has it as all and their fans arent worried at all about gents agreements or payback. Of course they wouldnt because decades ago Bobby Clarke was, I think, the 1st GM to use the offer sheet to land Chris Gratton. Okay, it was a bad move because Gratton didnt deliver, but there has never been payback to the Flyers, its not like teams have spurned dealing with Flyer GMs either. Is there actually any team that has made an offer sheet been hit with a payback offer sheet by the team they tried to poach from, or even from any other team ? Dont know for sure, but dont think so.
Just thought it interesting the different way of looking at it, Flyers are aggressive and take no prisoners in trying to win. We are about playing fair ( even though Holmgren is as offer sheets are allowed of course ) and not upsetting others out of fear and not being able to ward off an attack on our RFAs. Having said that, seems the Weber offer sheet violates the CBA given that he gets double the cap max for a player in year one ie 20%of $70M is $14M and he gets $27M 1st year. Hope NHL kills it.
Example of payback:

Backes was signed through offer sheet by Nucks. Blues match, revenge offer sheet Steve Bernier a bit later which the Nucks matched.

At the end of the day, it is unlikely a smaller market team like the Preds seek revenge. If someone offer sheets Subban, you can almost guarantee the Habs will seek revenge. They have the money to do it.

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07-20-2012, 05:55 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Example of payback:

Backes was signed through offer sheet by Nucks. Blues match, revenge offer sheet Steve Bernier a bit later which the Nucks matched.
Yep, that looks like payback.

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07-20-2012, 05:58 PM
  #199
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If it's meaningless why did they even bother going there? Seems like a complete waste of time.
- Free European vacation.

- Show up so they'll be considered when the Olympics come around.

- looks like they're "good Canadian boys"

- what else do they have to do?

Those would be my guesses.

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07-20-2012, 06:00 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by ThaDevilGirl View Post
I think it kicks in on July first, which is the first day he can get traded. Remember when the Sens wanted to trade Heatley before July 1st so they wouldn't pay his 4M bonus? The ****er didn't want to get traded to EDM and ended up being traded after July 1st and getting his bonus from Melnyk.
I hate when people blast Heatley for this. He was given a no trade clause in his contract, so he could choose where to go. He didn't want to go to Edmonton (and who could blame him?), so he didn't. Simple as that.

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