No. Doughty is not insulated, and their styles are completely different.
since when isn't he? Im not saying they give him easy minutes, i'm saying they gave him defense partners who could help him. was phaneuf getting easy minutes in Calgary? no, not really (ok Regehr was getting the the toughest), but he had Hamrlik to help him out (and having Regehr is like having Mitchell)
im more commenting on the baseless hype they both got.
since when isn't he? Im not saying they give him easy minutes, i'm saying they gave him defense partners who could help him. was phaneuf getting easy minutes in Calgary? no, not really (ok Regehr was getting the the toughest), but he had Hamrlik to help him out (and having Regehr is like having Mitchell)
im more commenting on the baseless hype they both got.
Not quite sure what you're talking about..
Doughty is getting the tough match ups and the most minutes overall, and at ES. He also plays on the PK, but gets a break from playing the most there considering they have others that can fill in.
Phaneuf was hyped up because he delivered crushing hits, like Komisarek, except more because he could also play on the PP.
the same people that choose doughty are the same that commended gainey on the gomez deal. very interesting.
Silly generality, a non sequitur, interesting only in your imagination but perfectly befitting your screen name. Unless you can provide a rational nexus you're just flapping your mandible. i opposed the trade for Gomez but recognize Doughty's superiority. I assume you think otherwise.
Not quite sure what you're talking about..
Doughty is getting the tough match ups and the most minutes overall, and at ES. He also plays on the PK, but gets a break from playing the most there considering they have others that can fill in.
Phaneuf was hyped up because he delivered crushing hits, like Komisarek, except more because he could also play on the PP.
lets talk about this again when Mitchell, Greene, and Scuderi aren't in the same lineup as him
Subban has done something that Doughty hasn't.. he has improved every year he's played. alot. and he does it in halves (every half year he improves different facets of his game)... outside of Montreal (and among the haters and the ones who don't get hockey) everyone looks at this as a down year for Subban. People spoke of sophomore slump and all that. But what did he do? he improved defensively against stronger competition with better results (defensively) while keeping close in point total with much less offensive help.
I'd say that Doughty's "improvements" aren't startling because he started from a high plateau. Subban's advances may be more evident because he started from the foothills.
I'm reluctant to put Subban down because I recognize his talent and his value to the Habs but I'm uncomfortable with over-the-top adulation. I don't see why it's necessary to compare Subban with Doughty. Is it to compensate for fans' frustration over the lowly finish of the Habs and the triumph of the Kings? As for myself, I take the lumps but look forward to a better day. I hated it when the Red Wings were dominant in the late 1940s and early 1950s but I sensed the Habs would rise when they brought in Béliveau, Geoffrion, Henri Richard, Jacques Plante, and Bert Olmstead. Similarly, I was unhappy when the Blackhawks were ruling the roost in the early 1960s after Maurice Richard retired, followed by the Leafs, but the Habs brought in Jacques Laperriere, Gilles and J-C Tremblay, Yvan Cournoyer, Bobby Rousseau, and John Ferguson and won four more Cups in the mid and late 1960s. I seethed when the Big Bad Bruins won the Cup in 1970 but experienced the proudest day in my love affair with le Canadien when the Habs toppled them in 1971. That may have been a monumental upset because the Bruins won again in 1972 but I was heartened when the Habs drafted the players who would win in 1973 and rule dynastically from 1976 to 1979.
I'd say that Doughty's "improvements" aren't startling because he started from a high plateau. Subban's advances may be more evident because he started from the foothills.
I'm reluctant to put Subban down because I recognize his talent and his value to the Habs but I'm uncomfortable with over-the-top adulation. I don't see why it's necessary to compare Subban with Doughty. Is it to compensate for fans' frustration over the lowly finish of the Habs and the triumph of the Kings?
And how did Doughty improve exactly? I'm seriously trying to look at this as objectively as I can.
I find it equally ridiculous that some fans think that Subban shouldn't be compared to the high and mighty Doughty. I do admit that PK is inferior, but he isn't by that much that it's somehow over-the-top adulation as you put it.
As for me I totally don't give a rats ass that the Kings won the Cup, but aparently you do and it's evident that it factors in your evaluation of Doughty. (you're not the only one though if it makes you feel any better)
And how did Doughty improve exactly? I'm seriously trying to look at this as objectively as I can.
I find it equally ridiculous that some fans think that Subban shouldn't be compared to the high and mighty Doughty. I do admit that PK is inferior, but he isn't by that much that it's somehow over-the-top adulation as you put it.
As for me I totally don't give a rats ass that the Kings won the Cup, but aparently you do and it's evident that it factors in your evaluation of Doughty. (you're not the only one though if it makes you feel any better)
Feel better? I had no feelings about the Kings' Cup win other than that it wasn't the Habs.
I don't sense this conflict anywhere outside Montréal. If you took a poll in any other NHL city you'd realize how overblown your notion is.
lets talk about this again when Mitchell, Greene, and Scuderi aren't in the same lineup as him
Why? They'll be replaced by other defensive dman, and you'll be saying the same thing.
You think Suter will look as good in Minny not playing along side Weber?
Not sure what it has to do with anything. Doughty makes his partners a lot better than the other way around.
Feel better? I had no feelings about the Kings' Cup win other than that it wasn't the Habs.
I don't sense this conflict anywhere outside Montréal. If you took a poll in any other NHL city you'd realize how overblown your notion is.
I meant to feel better about my assumption, just like you are assuming that the Cup win had anything to do with our opinion (unless you are referring to when I said it makes every Kings player overrated and I stand by that). But I don't hold any ill will because they won the Cup, much like you don't either as you said.
As for the poll, what is it going to prove exactly? In the absolute notion that a player is better than the other, yes, Doughty will cream Subban but it doesn't mean it's far fetched to compare them as you put it.
I meant to feel better about my assumption, just like you are assuming that the Cup win had anything to do with our opinion (unless you are referring to when I said it makes every Kings player overrated and I stand by that). But I don't hold any ill will because they won the Cup, much like you don't either as you said.
As for the poll, what is it going to prove exactly? In the absolute notion that a player is better than the other, yes, Doughty will cream Subban but it doesn't mean it's far fetched to compare them as you put it.
Who am I to trample your illusions? Believe what you want. Habs fans still love you.
Who am I to trample your illusions? Believe what you want. Habs fans still love you.
I hope so, I'm fighting the good fight It's only an opinion and I think I back it up pretty well, but I can understand where you're coming from too. Just remember there is no right or wrong here, I am optimistic (about the topic at hand), you aren't, that's what it comes down to. None of us can foresee the future.
Why? They'll be replaced by other defensive dman, and you'll be saying the same thing.
You think Suter will look as good in Minny not playing along side Weber?
Not sure what it has to do with anything. Doughty makes his partners a lot better than the other way around.
they won't be replaced by 2 of the best defensive dmen (mitchell,scuderi) ... well they could be.. but you seem to be missing the point that he's surrounded by competent D (just like Phaneuf in CGY)
i think Suter will look fine.. it's Weber that's going to look bad.
they won't be replaced by 2 of the best defensive dmen (mitchell,scuderi) ... well they could be.. but you seem to be missing the point that he's surrounded by competent D (just like Phaneuf in CGY)
i think Suter will look fine.. it's Weber that's going to look bad.
Mitchell and Scuderi are two of the best defensive Dman now? Was Komisarek one too when he played with Markov?
But again, it's completely irrelevant. The comparison is awful to begin with as both those guys have different styles.
I really don't understand the beef you have with Doughty. He's top 5 in the NHL, or at least top 10, and you're there pimping up Rob Scuderi..
every year since before we drafted him. we drafted him because he had a strong second half and good playoff... check what he's done since. in the OHL, in the AHL, and here. he doesn't stop getting better.
Doughty had a sophomore slump. Subban will have a week long slump at most (like when Martin decided to bench him)
how the hell did Doughty have a sophomore slump? His sophomore year was a 59 point campaign! And Doughty has one down year in which LA offense was overall horrendous and that makes him what he is. If thats the case, Subban is what he is based off last year. Same logic
Mitchell and Scuderi are two of the best defensive Dman now? Was Komisarek one too when he played with Markov?
But again, it's completely irrelevant. The comparison is awful to begin with as both those guys have different styles.
I really don't understand the beef you have with Doughty. He's top 5 in the NHL, or at least top 10, and you're there pimping up Rob Scuderi..
Mitchell absolutely, Scuderi does what he does. (he's the previous Josh Gorges unless u forgot) and they did that without Markov or anyone else.
I got no issue with Doughty, i just don't see him as all that great. neither do I think Weber is, nor Karlsson. I just see him as another Phaneuf.. a guy with all kindsa hype who happens to be in a spot where he can appear to live up to it. Take away his all-star two-way forwards, the Kings incredible depth at D and see what he does (in other words.. put him in the same situation Subban went through this year)
will Doughty step up in that case? who knows.. but he's never been tested.
So basically my point flew right over your head. There are actually people who did lose faith in him when they're not even recognizing the fact that he is a PPQB/shooter that also has 50-60 pt potential in his prime years. Not just a blip on the radar like Doughty which everyone is hanging on to. I'm not even talking about defense here, where I think Subban has an edge btw. The fact that Doughty came in the league sooner than Subban doesn't really mean anything. We took our time with Subban and that was the right choice; players have different developmental paths. I saw a Phaneuf being mentioned now... good example of a guy that hit his peak at an early stage and went downhill from there. I'm not saying that's what's going to happen to Doughty but it's not the end all in terms of career projections. In fact, people were starting to sour on Doughty until LA's Cinderella Cup run and now all of a sudden everything is validated, people forget they came close to missing the playoffs. We would be saying they are pretty much equal value if that hadn't happened.. every Kings player is extremely overrated right now.
Laughable. You dont really have a point aside from your inferiority complex regarding Subban. Some people lost faith in his. So what?
All you are doing now is cutting down Doughty and saying his best is already behind him with ZERO basis. Its ridiculous. One down year which was still as good as Subbans best year. Think about that. Can Subban reach the potential? Yes its possible, very few doubt that he doesnt have the potential however to just throw what Doughty has done and saying he has reached his peak with zero reasoning is pure idiocy. If Doughty follows this up with another average you may have a bit of an argument but an average year on a poor offensive team like the Kings (an even worse offensive then Montreal) then a great playoffs more than makes up for it.
Its nothing against Subban. He just doesnt have the track record yet nor reached the level of Doughty. Its not degrading Subban but as of now Subban's "next level" is potential, not actually achieved where Doughtys is
how the hell did Doughty have a sophomore slump? His sophomore year was a 59 point campaign! And Doughty has one down year in which LA offense was overall horrendous and that makes him what he is. If thats the case, Subban is what he is based off last year. Same logic
Yes, Subban is what he is based off last year.. incredible.
Doughty had a down year during which he showed up to camp unfit. do you think Subban will ever do that? I don't. He's too much into improving himself.
so you're one of those people who think Subban backstepped last year? LOLOLOL
wow, reading comprehension 101. i already stated i didnt think Subban had a sophomore slump just didnt progress as quickly as many hoped.
you just missed the point completely. If someone is going to base Doughty on one down year and make that his career, then anyone could do the same with Subban. Make sense, clear enough? Or should we say it a third time and hope you understand
wow, reading comprehension 101. i already stated i didnt think Subban had a sophomore slump just didnt progress as quickly as many hoped.
you just missed the point completely. If someone is going to base Doughty on one down year and make that his career, then anyone could do the same with Subban. Make sense, clear enough? Or should we say it a third time and hope you understand
Who based Doughty on one year? I'm saying he has been inconsistent, sheltered or paired with extremely good defensive help, and has seemed unmotivated to improve himself.
I'm still stunned that you don't see the immense progress Subban made. Sure he shut down Crosby when he was called up during the playoffs.. but in his rookie year he would make defensive errors you would expect of a young defenceman as well as taking risks with the puck that wouldn't always end well for him. He cut that riskiness our of his game almost completely by the end of the season.. yet still managed to put up the same type of point totals. Sure everyone wanted him to be Karlsson.. but do we really want that type of defenceman???? I know I don't.
Who based Doughty on one year? I'm saying he has been inconsistent, sheltered or paired with extremely good defensive help, and has seemed unmotivated to improve himself.
I'm still stunned that you don't see the immense progress Subban made. Sure he shut down Crosby when he was called up during the playoffs.. but in his rookie year he would make defensive errors you would expect of a young defenceman as well as taking risks with the puck that wouldn't always end well for him. He cut that riskiness our of his game almost completely by the end of the season.. yet still managed to put up the same type of point totals. Sure everyone wanted him to be Karlsson.. but do we really want that type of defenceman???? I know I don't.
Doughty had one down year which is better than Subbans best year. Thats what your basis for calling Doughty inconsistent on. One year out of 4. So based on one year it seems you have gathered all this. I have doubts in my mind you didnt believe this prior to last year when he had put up a 59 point season, and 40 plus point season.
Also, once again i never said he didnt progress just not as much as many hoped especially offensively where he definitely did not look as good. I think he made strides in the calming down his erratic defensive. And to think he didnt benefit hugely by playing with Gorges is also a factor. Gorges is as good as Scuderi or Mitchell imo. You hold one against one player, and not against the other.
we seem to be again, every thing is against Doughty yet Subban has no faults. Doughty plays with good defensive players, Gorges is just another mediocre defenseman. Doughty doesnt seem to want to improve but we ignore the many stories about Subban and teammates (ie complete assumption). Its just 100 percent one sided assumptions and beliefs. Hard to take serious
Mitchell absolutely, Scuderi does what he does. (he's the previous Josh Gorges unless u forgot) and they did that without Markov or anyone else.
I got no issue with Doughty, i just don't see him as all that great. neither do I think Weber is, nor Karlsson. I just see him as another Phaneuf.. a guy with all kindsa hype who happens to be in a spot where he can appear to live up to it. Take away his all-star two-way forwards, the Kings incredible depth at D and see what he does (in other words.. put him in the same situation Subban went through this year)
will Doughty step up in that case? who knows.. but he's never been tested.
It's only an opinion and I think I back it up pretty well, but I can understand where you're coming from too. Just remember there is no right or wrong here, I am optimistic (about the topic at hand), you aren't, that's what it comes down to. None of us can foresee the future.
