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Weber signed to offer sheet (TSN: 14 yrs, $110m, cap hit $7.8m per yr.) Part 2

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07-20-2012, 01:56 PM
  #276
Haute Couturier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Still too hard to tell. Given that he doesn't want to go back there, why would they want him?

The best option would be a reasonable deal from the Flyers, sending a few player to them for picks/prospects. It would give the Flyers Weber at a reasonable price, but give the Preds a chance to save face.

If Poile asks for too much, call his bluff and let him match.
It's not true that he doesn't want to go back there. He might prefer the Flyers, but he is okay with remaining in Nashville.

Quote:
Epp, the agent, acknowledged that Weber would enjoy becoming a Flyer, but that he would still feel comfortable if he returned to Nashville.

"He's had a successful career in Nashville and it's home, so it's not a place where he doesn't think he can't finish his career," Epp said.
IMO it all came down to who offered him the largest contract.

Quote:
Epp conceded that the uncertainty over the new CBA "and whether there will be new rules" made a long-term deal attractive.
http://articles.philly.com/2012-07-1...-weber-preds/2

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07-20-2012, 01:56 PM
  #277
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Except that it's a catch 22...

If big name FAs see that this team last suter and weber in the same offseason and likely spent the 12-13 season fighting for the 1st overall pick, what's going to make them want to sign there?
If the player is a potential 1/2 defenseman, playing time, for starters.

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07-20-2012, 01:59 PM
  #278
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I know I'm late to the party, I was on vacation (wonderful timing)

A couple things recycled by writers/bloggers/people smarter than me: (sorry if they've been discussed already)

- Even though it's Shea Weber, I'd be shocked if Homer simply "just got tired of waiting" for a Weber trade, swooped in, and offer sheeted Weber behind Poile's back. Poile could get credit for helping to rebuild this franchise during/after the season that won't be mentioned. Basically what I'm saying is that I'd be shocked if Homer would risk his fantastic GM relationship with Poile, even for Shea Weber. I think there's something else in the works. Something like sending a few major pieces to NSH for a couple of our 1st's back (or 1, preferably 2014 when the draft is in Philly).

- Weber reportedly visited Philly and the Flyers facilities a couple weeks ago, completely under the radar it seems. He seemed to have no problem/hesitation signing this offer sheet. For Weber to visit, wouldn't the Predators and Poile have to OK this, and if they didn't...wouldn't we be tampering with a FA?

- Poile's biggest mistake as a GM was with the Capitals, when Scott Stevens walked for absolutely nothing as a UFA back in the 90s. There's no way he'd let that happen again.

- If I've read correctly (there are dozens of different rumors/ideas circulating), if NSH DOES match, they only have Weber for 1 year, they owe him $26 million for that one season, AND he'd be untradable. Following that season, is he an RFA or UFA? Can Nashville afford to do that? I'm guessing not.

I'd truly be surprised if Shea Weber wasn't ours by the end of the week. Though I'm concerned as to what we'd be sending back for this prospective trade. If there's no trade....then we've likely shattered relations with Poile and Nashville (I won't lose sleep over this, not with Weber in O&B).


If any of these have been debunked, disproved, or otherwise, feel free to let me know and I'll delete it!

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07-20-2012, 02:03 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post

- Poile's biggest mistake as a GM was with the Capitals, when Scott Stevens walked for absolutely nothing as a UFA back in the 90s. There's no way he'd let that happen again.

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07-20-2012, 02:05 PM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
I know I'm late to the party, I was on vacation (wonderful timing)

A couple things recycled by writers/bloggers/people smarter than me: (sorry if they've been discussed already)

- Even though it's Shea Weber, I'd be shocked if Homer simply "just got tired of waiting" for a Weber trade, swooped in, and offer sheeted Weber behind Poile's back. Poile could get credit for helping to rebuild this franchise during/after the season that won't be mentioned. Basically what I'm saying is that I'd be shocked if Homer would risk his fantastic GM relationship with Poile, even for Shea Weber. I think there's something else in the works. Something like sending a few major pieces to NSH for a couple of our 1st's back (or 1, preferably 2014 when the draft is in Philly).

- Weber reportedly visited Philly and the Flyers facilities a couple weeks ago, completely under the radar it seems. He seemed to have no problem/hesitation signing this offer sheet. For Weber to visit, wouldn't the Predators and Poile have to OK this, and if they didn't...wouldn't we be tampering with a FA?

- Poile's biggest mistake as a GM was with the Capitals, when Scott Stevens walked for absolutely nothing as a UFA back in the 90s. There's no way he'd let that happen again.

- If I've read correctly (there are dozens of different rumors/ideas circulating), if NSH DOES match, they only have Weber for 1 year, they owe him $26 million for that one season, AND he'd be untradable. Following that season, is he an RFA or UFA? Can Nashville afford to do that? I'm guessing not.

I'd truly be surprised if Shea Weber wasn't ours by the end of the week. Though I'm concerned as to what we'd be sending back for this prospective trade. If there's no trade....then we've likely shattered relations with Poile and Nashville (I won't lose sleep over this, not with Weber in O&B).


If any of these have been debunked, disproved, or otherwise, feel free to let me know and I'll delete it!
First, you can't tamper with a FA. Since Weber as a FA, his visit was fine.

Second, the issue is that Stevens got away via offer sheet, not as a UFA.

And finally, and most importantly, you're confusing two different arguments re: what Nashville gets. If they match, they sign him to the same contract, so they get him for 14 years, not one. He's untradeable, however, for the first year, meaning 365 days. Yearly bonuses, on the other hand, are paid July 1 (and/or upon signing) so in those 365 days they would owe him $27 million.

The treadeability argument comes in because after that $27 million is paid, he would be VERY attractive tradebait, being owed only $83 million for 13 years. So attractive that I, and many others, think they would never trade him. So it's not that he's untradeable forever, but it's that being untradeable for the year means it would be highly surprising/crazy for them to trade him later.

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07-20-2012, 02:07 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by RoDu View Post
no, we trade Voracek to NSH, then we offer sheet him
Now that's just mean.

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07-20-2012, 02:07 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
Now that's just mean.
it would be some world class trolling

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07-20-2012, 02:08 PM
  #283
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I don't think that post could be any more confused lol.

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07-20-2012, 02:09 PM
  #284
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Who thinks maybe the Preds could maybe not match the offer sheet, than make a trade for Mez for a first rounder back. Take the other picks they acquired and make a pitch for Bouwmeester? It would make sense from their side especially if they can not match the offer sheet.

Paying Bouwmeester 6.8 for the year in salary is probably > paying Weber 27 million in 50 weeks from an ownership standpoint.

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07-20-2012, 02:15 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
I know I'm late to the party, I was on vacation (wonderful timing)

A couple things recycled by writers/bloggers/people smarter than me: (sorry if they've been discussed already)

- Even though it's Shea Weber, I'd be shocked if Homer simply "just got tired of waiting" for a Weber trade, swooped in, and offer sheeted Weber behind Poile's back. Poile could get credit for helping to rebuild this franchise during/after the season that won't be mentioned. Basically what I'm saying is that I'd be shocked if Homer would risk his fantastic GM relationship with Poile, even for Shea Weber. I think there's something else in the works. Something like sending a few major pieces to NSH for a couple of our 1st's back (or 1, preferably 2014 when the draft is in Philly).

- Weber reportedly visited Philly and the Flyers facilities a couple weeks ago, completely under the radar it seems. He seemed to have no problem/hesitation signing this offer sheet. For Weber to visit, wouldn't the Predators and Poile have to OK this, and if they didn't...wouldn't we be tampering with a FA?

- Poile's biggest mistake as a GM was with the Capitals, when Scott Stevens walked for absolutely nothing as a UFA back in the 90s. There's no way he'd let that happen again.

- If I've read correctly (there are dozens of different rumors/ideas circulating), if NSH DOES match, they only have Weber for 1 year, they owe him $26 million for that one season, AND he'd be untradable. Following that season, is he an RFA or UFA? Can Nashville afford to do that? I'm guessing not.

I'd truly be surprised if Shea Weber wasn't ours by the end of the week. Though I'm concerned as to what we'd be sending back for this prospective trade. If there's no trade....then we've likely shattered relations with Poile and Nashville (I won't lose sleep over this, not with Weber in O&B).


If any of these have been debunked, disproved, or otherwise, feel free to let me know and I'll delete it!
- Weber just wanted a long-term deal. Especially since the CBA is about to change and all signs point to Nashville not offering enough compared to the other big dogs (think a Pekka Rinne deal for Weber).

- If NSH matches, they get him for the entire 14 years. They can't trade him for the first 365 days but they can trade him after if they wanted to. They could pay the $27mil for the 1st season and then trade him for a better return then 4 1st rounders, which seems like a smart plan in terms of asset management. However, the fans will probably not be stoked to have seen management sign Weber long term and then trade him a year after. Seems like getting shot in the leg, letting it heal and then getting shot in the exact same spot - in addition to having another gunshot wound from Ryan Suter.

- If Philly was going to get him in a trade, it would have been done without an offersheet. Unless Flyers thought New York was closer and they wanted sole access to a Shea Weber trade, which just seems stupid. Possible, but stupid. Flyers must have decided their best shot at Weber (while keeping him out of New York or Detroit or etc.) was through offersheet and hope they can't match financially.

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07-20-2012, 02:20 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Who thinks maybe the Preds could maybe not match the offer sheet, than make a trade for Mez for a first rounder back. Take the other picks they acquired and make a pitch for Bouwmeester? It would make sense from their side especially if they can not match the offer sheet.

Paying Bouwmeester 6.8 for the year in salary is probably > paying Weber 27 million in 50 weeks from an ownership standpoint.
The possibilities are endless as far as what Nashville could do if they don't match. Countless scenarios involving trades the Flyers (Mezaros, Read, Schenn(s), Couturier, etc) or anywhere else (Bouwmeester, Iginla, Nash, Ryan, other guys rumored to be on the move). They could also turn around and make some kind of mega trade with their 8 first round picks available to bring in someone that no one has thought of. Or they could go hog-wild and sign a bunch of UFAs (Doan, Semin, etc). Or they could just stand pat and move forward with the rebuild next year.

My best bet is that they match and the Flyers look elsewhere for something other than defense. Either way, it sucks that the Flyers had to go and do this and time it perfectly so that all this speculation coincides with the bar exam next week. Ugh.

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Old
07-20-2012, 02:25 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Unstable View Post
First, you can't tamper with a FA. Since Weber as a FA, his visit was fine.

Second, the issue is that Stevens got away via offer sheet, not as a UFA.

And finally, and most importantly, you're confusing two different arguments re: what Nashville gets. If they match, they sign him to the same contract, so they get him for 14 years, not one. He's untradeable, however, for the first year, meaning 365 days. Yearly bonuses, on the other hand, are paid July 1 (and/or upon signing) so in those 365 days they would owe him $27 million.

The treadeability argument comes in because after that $27 million is paid, he would be VERY attractive tradebait, being owed only $83 million for 13 years. So attractive that I, and many others, think they would never trade him. So it's not that he's untradeable forever, but it's that being untradeable for the year means it would be highly surprising/crazy for them to trade him later.
Ah ok, thanks! I know UFA's can be met with, wasn't sure about RFA's.

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07-20-2012, 02:45 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
I know I'm late to the party, I was on vacation (wonderful timing)

A couple things recycled by writers/bloggers/people smarter than me: (sorry if they've been discussed already)

- Even though it's Shea Weber, I'd be shocked if Homer simply "just got tired of waiting" for a Weber trade, swooped in, and offer sheeted Weber behind Poile's back. Poile could get credit for helping to rebuild this franchise during/after the season that won't be mentioned. Basically what I'm saying is that I'd be shocked if Homer would risk his fantastic GM relationship with Poile, even for Shea Weber. I think there's something else in the works. Something like sending a few major pieces to NSH for a couple of our 1st's back (or 1, preferably 2014 when the draft is in Philly).

- Weber reportedly visited Philly and the Flyers facilities a couple weeks ago, completely under the radar it seems. He seemed to have no problem/hesitation signing this offer sheet. For Weber to visit, wouldn't the Predators and Poile have to OK this, and if they didn't...wouldn't we be tampering with a FA?
It wasn't that Homer got tired of waiting for a trade. As an RFA, it was completely appropriate that Weber visited Philly, NY, Detroit, San Jose and met with Vancouver after Suter signed with Minny.

He picked Philly. His agents told Poile they were looking around, and that Shea was going to sign the Flyers' offer sheet (there would have been others if we hadn't done it). Homer then tried to make a trade for Weber's rights, to avoid the OS process, and Poile insisted on BSchenn and Couts in the deal, so Homer finally said, F it, here's the offer sheet.

Homer and Poile are friends, but it wasn't like the Flyers were the only team discussing trade options or contemplating an offer sheet, the Flyers were just the only team Weber wants to play for.

I think a trade needs to be worked out, esp. for the 2014 pick (good call). I have no problem sending them a couple players back for picks/prospects, as insurance against matching.

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07-20-2012, 03:14 PM
  #289
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ok, just got home looks like no news.

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07-20-2012, 03:21 PM
  #290
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ok, just got home looks like no news.
I do not suggest holding your breath, honestly.


Last edited by Unstable: 07-20-2012 at 03:54 PM.
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07-20-2012, 03:45 PM
  #291
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Dreger made it seem like he expected a decision very soon.

You'd think they would match it by now...

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07-20-2012, 03:48 PM
  #292
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Dreger made it seem like he expected a decision very soon.

You'd think they would match it by now...
Well, if they're trying to get financing together to keep him that would take time.

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07-20-2012, 04:03 PM
  #293
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I do not suggest holding your breath, honestly.
well i wasnt holding my breath.

but i did make dinner grilled cheese with velveeta mac n cheese, the dinner of champions.

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07-20-2012, 04:12 PM
  #294
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How can people deny that Weber does not want to play for Nashville anymore?

His agent said it straight out, he wants to move on. They wouldn't have signed that deal if it wasn't the case and a deal that severly cripples the Predators for the next 6 years. The offer sheet is structured so Nashville can't match.

So tell me, why would Weber want to go back to Nashville after those 3 facts.

edit: If he really wanted to go back, you'd think he would have taken same amount of money but structured so that it doesn't cripple Nashville. He did the extreme opposite of this. Read between the lines abit people.

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07-20-2012, 04:13 PM
  #295
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Hm, when Preds signed Radulov in February, I knew that later this year Preds fans are highly likely to be heavily disappointed. But in no way I expected the franchise to be in such turbulence only 4 months later. Hard times to be Preds fan I guess...

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07-20-2012, 04:19 PM
  #296
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Hm, when Preds signed Radulov in February, I knew that later this year Preds fans are highly likely to be heavily disappointed. But in no way I expected the franchise to be in such turbulence only 4 months later. Hard times to be Preds fan I guess...
They've never been a successful franchise, they've never turned a profit... Even with bottom feeder type of salaries... Nothing surprising to me anyway.

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07-20-2012, 05:00 PM
  #297
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Does anyone think if Nashville matches this the Flyers will sign Giroux to a long-term contract before the potential lock-out starts? Since the Flyers if they do it after will likely be unable to sign him to a front-loaded deal if the new CBA makes it where each deal is the same salary every season.

I suppose it could still happen if the Flyers add Weber, but it will be more difficult to fit in a large AAV increase to Giroux with Weber coming on at close to $9m AAV this season.

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07-20-2012, 05:03 PM
  #298
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Does anyone think if Nashville matches this the Flyers will sign Giroux to a long-term contract before the potential lock-out starts? Since the Flyers if they do it after will likely be unable to sign him to a front-loaded deal if the new CBA makes it where each deal is the same salary every season.

I suppose it could still happen if the Flyers add Weber, but it will be more difficult to fit in a large AAV increase to Giroux with Weber coming on at close to $9m AAV this season.
They can't offer Giroux a contract yet. Not until the last year of his contract.

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07-20-2012, 05:11 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by RevUpThoseGolfCarts View Post
Dreger made it seem like he expected a decision very soon.

You'd think they would match it by now...
No way the team declines a matching offer so soon after. It'd look like they gave up. I think they wait till the last day and decline/let the offer expire. If they were going to match of expect news today or tomorrow

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07-20-2012, 05:21 PM
  #300
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No way the team declines a matching offer so soon after. It'd look like they gave up. I think they wait till the last day and decline/let the offer expire. If they were going to match of expect news today or tomorrow
They're going to troll us and match with 1min remaining.

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