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Old
07-20-2012, 03:08 PM
  #626
doaner
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Do you guys put money in the bank? And if so, why?

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07-20-2012, 03:12 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by doaner View Post
Do you guys put money in the bank? And if so, why?
The money I keep in a savings account appreciates in value. The money I keep in a checking account is accessible from anywhere. I know where you're going with this, but it's a deeply flawed analogy.

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07-20-2012, 03:19 PM
  #628
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
The money I keep in a savings account appreciates in value. The money I keep in a checking account is accessible from anywhere. I know where you're going with this, but it's a deeply flawed analogy.
Not really. Are you planning on using that money for something or for an emergency?

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07-20-2012, 03:24 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by doaner View Post
Not really. Are you planning on using that money for something or for an emergency?
It's certainly nice to have in case of an emergency, but you're missing my point from earlier. A little bit of preparation is smart, but there's a threshold after which you're no longer being sensible. You can never prepare for every single possible emergency, so you should prepare for the most plausible of them. A gunman opening fire in a movie theater is an exceedingly rare occurrence.

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07-20-2012, 03:27 PM
  #630
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
It's certainly nice to have in case of an emergency.
Exactly. for those times when an unexpected something comes up. For me (and many others), by baby glock is just that. I would rather have it on my hip and not need to use it then need it to protect my family and other civilians and not have it. I couldn't live with myself if something happened to them and I was unprepared.

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07-20-2012, 03:27 PM
  #631
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Lots of people there are more concerned that parents allowed a 3 month old baby into a theater at midnight than the deaths.


I saw that. And I really don't see why it would be an issue to take a 3 month old to a movie theater at midnight. 3 month olds sleep a lot. They aren't going to be bothered by a movie. And they probably aren't going to be bothering others, since they'll be sleeping. If they do wake up and fuss, you take the baby out in the lobby, nurse it, and then go back in once it falls asleep.

It's actually less hassle to take a 3 month old to a movie than it would be a 3-yr, 6-yr or 8-yr old.

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07-20-2012, 03:29 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
It's certainly nice to have in case of an emergency, but you're missing my point from earlier. A little bit of preparation is smart, but there's a threshold after which you're no longer being sensible. You can never prepare for every single possible emergency, so you should prepare for the most plausible of them. A gunman opening fire in a movie theater is an exceedingly rare occurrence.
Yeah, you can't prepare for everything, but in today's time where home invasions are everywhere and kids are being kidnapped all over the place, carrying a piece of metal gives me a piece of mind.

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Old
07-20-2012, 03:33 PM
  #633
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Originally Posted by doaner View Post
Exactly. for those times when an unexpected something comes up. For me (and many others), by baby glock is just that. I would rather have it on my hip and not need to use it then need it to protect my family and other civilians and not have it. I couldn't live with myself if something happened to them and I was unprepared.
But you're also a police officer who has undergone training not available to most civilians.

At a certain point, the preparation carries more risk than not being prepared at all. Everything you do is a risk/reward calculation. The risk of leaving my money under my mattress outweighs the risk of leaving it in the bank. Is being unarmed in your own house a risk? Sure. If someone wants to come into my home with a gun, I'm powerless to stop him. But I also don't have to worry about anyone being shot accidentally (whether because I panicked and overreacted or because a curious child got a hold of it or whatever), which is greater likelihood.

As a member of law enforcement, I'm guessing you've often seen cases of people trying to take the law into their own hands. How often does that work out?

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Yeah, you can't prepare for everything, but in today's time where home invasions are everywhere and kids are being kidnapped all over the place, carrying a piece of metal gives me a piece of mind.
Home invasions are not "everywhere" and kids are not being kidnapped "all over the place," not that you'd necessarily have the right to shoot someone in either case (nor should you). This is paranoid thinking. Both, especially the latter, are quite rare.

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Old
07-20-2012, 03:44 PM
  #634
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
But you're also a police officer who has undergone training not available to most civilians.

At a certain point, the preparation carries more risk than not being prepared at all. Everything you do is a risk/reward calculation. The risk of leaving my money under my mattress outweighs the risk of leaving it in the bank. Is being unarmed in your own house a risk? Sure. If someone wants to come into my home with a gun, I'm powerless to stop him. But I also don't have to worry about anyone being shot accidentally (whether because I panicked and overreacted or because a curious child got a hold of it or whatever), which is greater likelihood.

As a member of law enforcement, I'm guessing you've often seen cases of people trying to take the law into their own hands. How often does that work out?



Home invasions are not "everywhere" and kids are not being kidnapped "all over the place," not that you'd necessarily have the right to shoot someone in either case (nor should you). This is paranoid thinking. Both, especially the latter, are quite rare.
You can be damn sure if anyone tries to take my kids or breaks into my home to do my family harm, it will be 2 to the body and 1...you get the point.

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Old
07-20-2012, 03:51 PM
  #635
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
It's certainly nice to have in case of an emergency, but you're missing my point from earlier. A little bit of preparation is smart, but there's a threshold after which you're no longer being sensible. You can never prepare for every single possible emergency, so you should prepare for the most plausible of them. A gunman opening fire in a movie theater is an exceedingly rare occurrence.
In the press conference, the police chief stated the shooter was well armored - helmet, throat protector, groin protector, full body armor - so maybe going to the movies packing aint exactly the best defense against him. In a darkened theater, nice to think everyone with a gun knows how to shoot a guy in full body armor in a darkened theater and put him down before he hurts anyone... but I think that is a fantasy.

Maybe if the other patrons had gone to the movie in full body armor and helmets, more of them would be all right - but I'm guessing not many people are going to go out and buy full body armor and wear it to the local cineplex or shopping mall.

Anymore than people routinely wear a helmet when they get in a car.

"Oh, I'd rather wear a helmet in the car and not need it, than need a helmet and not wear it. When there's about to be a crash, there's no time to put a helmet on, you know!"

I don't know anyone who wears a safety helmet when driving a car on the street. Off-road, or racing, sure.

Some adults, when they go out on a boat on the lake, want to wear a life jacket at all times too.

Kinda like, when a guy goes outside in the sun, does he always wear a hat or put on sun block?

"Hey, no need for a hat or sun block...

I'm protected by my gun!"



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Old
07-20-2012, 03:58 PM
  #636
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Originally Posted by yotesreign View Post
In the press conference, the police chief stated the shooter was well armored - helmet, throat protector, groin protector, full body armor - so maybe going to the movies packing aint exactly the best defense against him. In a darkened theater, nice to think everyone with a gun knows how to shoot a guy in full body armor in a darkened theater and put him down before he hurts anyone... but I think that is a fantasy.

Maybe if the other patrons had gone to the movie in full body armor and helmets, more of them would be all right - but I'm guessing not many people are going to go out and buy full body armor and wear it to the local cineplex or shopping mall.

Anymore than people routinely wear a helmet when they get in a car.

"Oh, I'd rather wear a helmet in the car and not need it, than need a helmet and not wear it. When there's about to be a crash, there's no time to put a helmet on, you know!"

I don't know anyone who wears a safety helmet when driving a car on the street. Off-road, or racing, sure.

Some adults, when they go out on a boat on the lake, want to wear a life jacket at all times too.

Kinda like, when a guy goes outside in the sun, does he always wear a hat or put on sun block?

"Hey, no need for a hat or sun block...

I'm protected by my gun!"


You saved me from posting a very long winded post.

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Old
07-20-2012, 04:03 PM
  #637
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Originally Posted by doaner View Post
You can be damn sure if anyone tries to take my kids or breaks into my home to do my family harm, it will be 2 to the body and 1...you get the point.
Again, you're a well trained (I hope) police officer. For most people, they're more likely to accidentally shoot a loved one (or vice versa) than have anyone break in in the first place.

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07-20-2012, 04:03 PM
  #638
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Originally Posted by yotesreign View Post
In the press conference, the police chief stated the shooter was well armored - helmet, throat protector, groin protector, full body armor - so maybe going to the movies packing aint exactly the best defense against him. In a darkened theater, nice to think everyone with a gun knows how to shoot a guy in full body armor in a darkened theater and put him down before he hurts anyone... but I think that is a fantasy.

Maybe if the other patrons had gone to the movie in full body armor and helmets, more of them would be all right - but I'm guessing not many people are going to go out and buy full body armor and wear it to the local cineplex or shopping mall.

Anymore than people routinely wear a helmet when they get in a car.

"Oh, I'd rather wear a helmet in the car and not need it, than need a helmet and not wear it. When there's about to be a crash, there's no time to put a helmet on, you know!"

I don't know anyone who wears a safety helmet when driving a car on the street. Off-road, or racing, sure.

Some adults, when they go out on a boat on the lake, want to wear a life jacket at all times too.

Kinda like, when a guy goes outside in the sun, does he always wear a hat or put on sun block?

"Hey, no need for a hat or sun block...

I'm protected by my gun!"


No need to be a dick bud.

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Old
07-20-2012, 04:04 PM
  #639
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
Again, you're a well trained (I hope) police officer. For most people, they're more likely to accidentally shoot a loved one (or vice versa) than have anyone break in in the first place.
Me too. Been doing this 9 yrs now.

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07-20-2012, 04:08 PM
  #640
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I'd be interested to see some (reliable) statistics breaking a few things down, like:

How often are guns successfully used to defend against home invasions? (And by "successfully" I mean preventing further harm to life and property by killing or disabling the intruder(s), or causing him/them to flee, without accidentally injuring bystanders or the user.)

What is the ratio of such "successful" resolutions, to cases in which the use of a gun in self-defense either fails to stop a home invasion or causes additional harm? For instance, how many homeowners are themselves killed or injured in the course of trying to stop a home invasion with a gun?

How many non-gun owners are killed or injured during home invasions, as compared to gun owners who keep a gun for home defense?

How many break-ins occur when there's nobody home? How does that compare to the number of break-ins that occur when there is someone home?

How many guns are stolen during break-ins that occur when no one is home?

Under what circumstances is self-defense a legally valid justification for shooting an intruder? For example, I've been told that you can't legally shoot a man as he's leaving your house with your television. However, you can shoot him if you're convinced that he means to harm you or your family.

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07-20-2012, 04:10 PM
  #641
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Originally Posted by MP View Post
I'd be interested to see some (reliable) statistics breaking a few things down, like:

How often are guns successfully used to defend against home invasions? (And by "successfully" I mean preventing further harm to life and property by killing or disabling the intruder(s), or causing him/them to flee, without accidentally injuring bystanders or the user.)

What is the ratio of such "successful" resolutions, to cases in which the use of a gun in self-defense either fails to stop a home invasion or causes additional harm? For instance, how many homeowners are themselves killed or injured in the course of trying to stop a home invasion with a gun?

How many non-gun owners are killed or injured during home invasions, as compared to gun owners who keep a gun for home defense?

How many break-ins occur when there's nobody home? How does that compare to the number of break-ins that occur when there is someone home?

How many guns are stolen during break-ins that occur when no one is home?

Under what circumstances is self-defense a legally valid justification for shooting an intruder? For example, I've been told that you can't legally shoot a man as he's leaving your house with your television. However, you can shoot him if you're convinced that he means to harm you or your family.
The shapiros in pv come to mind.

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07-20-2012, 04:17 PM
  #642
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Every time a tragic event like this occurs the anti-gun nuts and the pro-gun nuts try to use it to to advance their agenda. I find it tasteless and shameful.

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07-20-2012, 04:46 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by doaner View Post
No need to be a dick bud.
It must come naturally, as I was not even trying that hard.

You know how some people know they shouldn't be parents?

That's kinda how I am about me owning a gun.

But I'm very responsible around shovels, hammers, knives and scissors.

I know there are good responsible gun owners out there, just as I know not all are responsible. But I would never suggest we ban all guns.

There are situations where people with their loaded guns would come in very handy; just don't think they are the solution to every situation, or this one.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sinurgy - I agree. Many look at things like this and say "See?? See?? This is what I was talking about before!!!" and then use it to push their agenda.

Like, "See?? See?? This is what I was talking about before! Little good ever happens away from home after midnight! People should always be home by midnight!"

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07-20-2012, 05:08 PM
  #644
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http://www.kvoa.com/news/aurora-mass...ogram-in-2011/

This is really scary knowing the killer had applied to a UA Grad program and could have done soemthing like this in Tucson.

Quote:
TUCSON - University of Arizona officials have confirmed that the James Holmes, the suspect in the Aurora mass shooting incident, applied for UA graduate school in the Fall of 2011.

The first of two images sent to News 4 Tucson anonymously shows the cover of a booklet for the Graduate Interdisciplinary Program in Neuroscience Interview Weekend, which was held February 3 - 6, 2011

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Old
07-20-2012, 05:11 PM
  #645
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Don't know if this was posted yet, but Jessica Redfield was the one who interviewed Summers in this video. Very beautiful and funny girl. Very sad.


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Old
07-20-2012, 05:50 PM
  #646
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Don't know if this was posted yet, but Jessica Redfield was the one who interviewed Summers in this video. Very beautiful and funny girl. Very sad.

Wow. I hadn't made that connection.

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07-20-2012, 08:16 PM
  #647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
Again, you're a well trained (I hope) police officer. For most people, they're more likely to accidentally shoot a loved one (or vice versa) than have anyone break in in the first place.
I can tell you first hand that the number of "accidental" shootings is VERY VERY low. Usually when someone is pointing a gun, they are doing it for a reason.

Just remember... Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

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07-20-2012, 08:18 PM
  #648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MP View Post
I'd be interested to see some (reliable) statistics breaking a few things down, like:

How often are guns successfully used to defend against home invasions? (And by "successfully" I mean preventing further harm to life and property by killing or disabling the intruder(s), or causing him/them to flee, without accidentally injuring bystanders or the user.)
There are plenty of occassions where the homeowner is armed and "taken care of business".

Quote:
Originally Posted by MP View Post
What is the ratio of such "successful" resolutions, to cases in which the use of a gun in self-defense either fails to stop a home invasion or causes additional harm? For instance, how many homeowners are themselves killed or injured in the course of trying to stop a home invasion with a gun?
Most home invasions involve selling drugs. So don't sell drugs, don't worry about home invasions.

Quote:
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How many non-gun owners are killed or injured during home invasions, as compared to gun owners who keep a gun for home defense?
Very few.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MP View Post
How many break-ins occur when there's nobody home? How does that compare to the number of break-ins that occur when there is someone home?
I can't get into specific details, stats, or cases.... but there are lots of burglaries and many occur when people are not home (it's called a crime of opportunity for a reason), and in many cases, firearms are stolen.

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How many guns are stolen during break-ins that occur when no one is home?
Depends on how many the victim owns and how secure they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MP View Post
Under what circumstances is self-defense a legally valid justification for shooting an intruder? For example, I've been told that you can't legally shoot a man as he's leaving your house with your television. However, you can shoot him if you're convinced that he means to harm you or your family.
If you can find legal counsel that will give you the same answer over and over with this question, please let me know, because the truth is that every situation is different and investigated and evaluated as such.


Last edited by PPD7952: 07-20-2012 at 08:27 PM.
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Old
07-20-2012, 08:23 PM
  #649
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I can tell you first hand that the number of "accidental" shootings is VERY VERY low. Usually when someone is pointing a gun, they are doing it for a reason.

Just remember... Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
Yeah. That and cleaning issues. I hear horror stories of a guy putting a round through a flat screen. Ouch!! Guns don't go off on their own. They need human input and manipulation to go off.

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07-20-2012, 08:31 PM
  #650
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I can tell you first hand that the number of "accidental" shootings is VERY VERY low. Usually when someone is pointing a gun, they are doing it for a reason.

Just remember... Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
"First hand"? Do you have any stats to back that up, or just weirdly cryptic anecdotes?

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