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Weber signed to offer sheet (TSN: 14 yrs, $110m, cap hit $7.8m per yr.) Part 2

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07-20-2012, 05:37 PM
  #301
King Fish
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Originally Posted by phillyflyerfan1992 View Post
- Weber just wanted a long-term deal. Especially since the CBA is about to change and all signs point to Nashville not offering enough compared to the other big dogs (think a Pekka Rinne deal for Weber).

- If NSH matches, they get him for the entire 14 years. They can't trade him for the first 365 days but they can trade him after if they wanted to. They could pay the $27mil for the 1st season and then trade him for a better return then 4 1st rounders, which seems like a smart plan in terms of asset management. However, the fans will probably not be stoked to have seen management sign Weber long term and then trade him a year after. Seems like getting shot in the leg, letting it heal and then getting shot in the exact same spot - in addition to having another gunshot wound from Ryan Suter.

- If Philly was going to get him in a trade, it would have been done without an offersheet. Unless Flyers thought New York was closer and they wanted sole access to a Shea Weber trade, which just seems stupid. Possible, but stupid. Flyers must have decided their best shot at Weber (while keeping him out of New York or Detroit or etc.) was through offersheet and hope they can't match financially.
Good asset management? If you are Nashville you don't match the flyers offer, then a year later trade him! You would have given a guy $27 mill for one year then get the same in return as you would have originally received from Philly. If they match the offer Weber is in Nashville for the entire contract. Nashville most likely wanted far to much from our roster, obviously more than 4 first rounders in value.

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07-20-2012, 05:44 PM
  #302
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Hm, when Preds signed Radulov in February, I knew that later this year Preds fans are highly likely to be heavily disappointed. But in no way I expected the franchise to be in such turbulence only 4 months later. Hard times to be Preds fan I guess...


you don't how hard it is to be a fan of the nashville predators,Flyer fans better kiss the lucky stars that they have money to spend on players that want to play there.

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07-20-2012, 05:50 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by King Fish View Post
Good asset management? If you are Nashville you don't match the flyers offer, then a year later trade him! You would have given a guy $27 mill for one year then get the same in return as you would have originally received from Philly. If they match the offer Weber is in Nashville for the entire contract. Nashville most likely wanted far to much from our roster, obviously more than 4 first rounders in value.
I'm not talking about financial assets.

They could easily trade him a year after for a lot more than just 4 1st rounders to any other team. He won't have a NMC if I recall correctly. I'm sure any team in the league would love to have Shea Weber especially if he's signed to a long-term deal with only $83mil over 13 years (less $$$ than Suter/Parise). Not saying that Nashville would but if Weber wants out - which it appears he doesn't - they have that option.

Much smarter for the Predators to match either way. The only question is if they can afford it financially, looking at the other players they need to sign not only this season to get to the floor but next season they have 10+ contracts up for renewal. They offered similar money to Suter and had intentions of offering the same to Weber before though, so they should be able to afford it.

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07-20-2012, 05:51 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by PredsFanFromla View Post
you don't how hard it is to be a fan of the nashville predators,Flyer fans better kiss the lucky stars that they have money to spend on players that want to play there.
I really feel for Preds fans and the franchise. Bringing a sport to a completely new market is hard, and the Predators had bad ownership making it harder. I hope they can figure out a path to success, whether that means they keep Weber or take the 4 first rounders and run.

The Flyers losing out on getting Weber would hurt the team, but the Predators losing Weber could hurt the franchise's viability if it's not handled right.

Personally, I think they have to match, even if it means losing $60M in the next 4 years. That's better than the value of your franchise going to $0 like the Coyotes basically have.

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07-20-2012, 06:00 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by PredsFanFromla View Post
you don't how hard it is to be a fan of the nashville predators,Flyer fans better kiss the lucky stars that they have money to spend on players that want to play there.
We have an owner willing to do what it takes. It's a very successful franchise since inception...and his "I want to win" attitude brings $$ in the door.

IMO professional sports should not be for owners who have so little $$ they need to make a profit. (baseball is whack...so not there). I'd love to see revenue sharing...but EVERY dollar should go to player salary or something. Half the time it just ends up in the owners pockets...and that is a big problem.

Look at Minnesota, they had a huge base for the nstars...but a clown owner that ruined it, the nstars were an accessory, not a passion.


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07-20-2012, 06:17 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by King Fish View Post
Good asset management? If you are Nashville you don't match the flyers offer, then a year later trade him! You would have given a guy $27 mill for one year then get the same in return as you would have originally received from Philly. If they match the offer Weber is in Nashville for the entire contract. Nashville most likely wanted far to much from our roster, obviously more than 4 first rounders in value.
The four 1st rounders aren't equal to Weber when they're going to be in the 20-30 pick range. Nashville is looking at the lesser of all evils options right now, and if they keep Weber, pay him $27 million for 1 year, trade him after 1 year for roster players/picks/prospects etc, they'll end up with a better return. Plus, they will be able to trade him anywhere, not just to 1 team.

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07-20-2012, 06:20 PM
  #307
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You said that the Weber camp could say anything and it would not matter because they have no power in NSH decision making process. I was just pointing out that I think the Weber camp absolutely has cards to play, and has already slapped a few down on the table.

Weber, IMO, would not hold out; however, I think he has made it known that he does not really want to stay in NSH. That has got to be a point considered with NSH ownership.
Sure, but as much as they may say, all Nashville has to do is say "we will match". Then they will have full control over what to do with him, be it keep him for 14 years or trade him where they want a year later. The agents aren't doing him any favours by saying he wants out because it's no longer his choice and there will be pressure on him this season because his image will be tarnished.

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07-20-2012, 06:29 PM
  #308
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They will definitely get more than 4 1sts should they trade him, but how much are they realistically expecting to get?

No one is going to destroy their franchise for Weber. He may be valuable, but no small market team is going to shell out the incredible assets necessary.

On top of that, teams with multiple assets aren't going to just give the best ones. Did you notice how firm Holmgren was about not giving up Schenn + Couturier?

If Poile could've gotten a "Schenn + Couturier" level package from another team, he would've. Nobody is going to shell out those kinds of assets for Weber even if he is Weber.

So, you may get a king's ransom for him, but it's not going to be the HF version of Couturier + Schenn + Schenn + 1st. It'll be closer to what Pronger got, and Pronger only got Lupul + Sbisa + late 1st + late 1st.

4 1sts is a lot. And $27m is a lot.

If so much of their image wasn't locked up in Weber this is a no-brainer. The fear of going back to the basement, and the fear of their public imagine in the wake of a Weber/Suter departure is the only thing that's pushing them possibly crippling their franchise by matching.

Two first round selections for the next 4 years is ridiculous. We're offering Nashville a free rebuild if they just let go of a player that doesn't even want to be there and may financially bankrupt their organization.

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07-20-2012, 06:41 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Fish View Post
Good asset management? If you are Nashville you don't match the flyers offer, then a year later trade him! You would have given a guy $27 mill for one year then get the same in return as you would have originally received from Philly. If they match the offer Weber is in Nashville for the entire contract. Nashville most likely wanted far to much from our roster, obviously more than 4 first rounders in value.
I look at it this way. They were planning to spend at least $14M between Weber and Suter this year. So at most this is $12M more than they wanted to spend. Is spending an extra $12M worth a year of Weber, a potential playoff birth (playoff revenue), and then move him for better assets that can help them immediately next year?

I do think they will keep him if they match, but I don't think hanging onto him and then trading him is a bad move.

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07-20-2012, 06:43 PM
  #310
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I can really only come up with one conclusion so far. Homer must have hired the Devil to construct this contract. It's way too fiendishly clever for him to have come up with it. The money up front and the fact that the bonuses have to be paid regardless of a work stoppage is just a dagger to Nashville's heart. They may in fact match and keep Weber, but it could also bankrupt them in the process.

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07-20-2012, 06:46 PM
  #311
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Sure, but as much as they may say, all Nashville has to do is say "we will match". Then they will have full control over what to do with him, be it keep him for 14 years or trade him where they want a year later. The agents aren't doing him any favours by saying he wants out because it's no longer his choice and there will be pressure on him this season because his image will be tarnished.
Why pay 25% of his total salary in 11 months to trade him, that is the worst option no matter what the return is ( which would be massive)

Any CBA experts, say Weber signs in Nash, gets his 12 mill that day, then holds out. Since 60 mill is in signing bonuses, is he not entitled to all that money whether he plays or not ? All that he would lose is the salary due to him that year. The 60 mill is all just for signing and Nash or Philly has to pay ?

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07-20-2012, 06:54 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
Why pay 25% of his total salary in 11 months to trade him, that is the worst option no matter what the return is ( which would be massive)

Any CBA experts, say Weber signs in Nash, gets his 12 mill that day, then holds out. Since 60 mill is in signing bonuses, is he not entitled to all that money whether he plays or not ? All that he would lose is the salary due to him that year. The 60 mill is all just for signing and Nash or Philly has to pay ?
That's probably more a contract issue than a CBA issue. I don't know if it would get that far but depending what the contracts say, Nashville could potentially sue Weber for breach of contract and potentially get the signing bonuses back.

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07-20-2012, 06:56 PM
  #313
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Any reliable updates?

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07-20-2012, 06:57 PM
  #314
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That's probably more a contract issue than a CBA issue. I don't know if it would get that far but depending what the contracts say, Nashville could potentially sue Weber for breach of contract and potentially get the signing bonuses back.
For sure they could sue, but most signing bonuses have nothing to do with the contract, its a bonus for agreeing to the dollar amounts owed to employee during the contract time.

More I think about and how Webers agents say he wants out, there has to be something in there that is gonna make it impossible to match.

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07-20-2012, 06:58 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
That's probably more a contract issue than a CBA issue. I don't know if it would get that far but depending what the contracts say, Nashville could potentially sue Weber for breach of contract and potentially get the signing bonuses back.
Lol just stop dude, the bar is getting to you!

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07-20-2012, 06:59 PM
  #316
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For sure they could sue, but most signing bonuses have nothing to do with the contract, its a bonus for agreeing to the dollar amounts owed to employee during the contract time.
The bonuses would be provided for in the contract. If he breached the contract, there could be legal ramifications.

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07-20-2012, 07:00 PM
  #317
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Lol just stop dude, the bar is getting to you!

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07-20-2012, 07:01 PM
  #318
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I'm here for you bro lol.

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07-20-2012, 07:02 PM
  #319
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Any reliable updates?
Not much has happened. All we can do is wait at this point.

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07-20-2012, 07:05 PM
  #320
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Not much has happened. All we can do is wait at this point.
I figured that, just wondering if there's even some leaning on Twitter one way or the other. It just seems like no one has a clue as to what's happening.

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07-20-2012, 07:18 PM
  #321
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I figured that, just wondering if there's even some leaning on Twitter one way or the other. It just seems like no one has a clue as to what's happening.
Nothing is going to happen until next week. The Predators will work with their investors and creditors to see if this makes sense to match.

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07-20-2012, 07:41 PM
  #322
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Nothing is going to happen until next week. The Predators will work with their investors and creditors to see if this makes sense to match.
I agree.

Also, if they decide, internally, that they aren't going to match, they still likely wouldn't announce that decision until trying to leverage a better deal out of the Flyers.

The only news that could come in the next few days, I think, would be bad news.

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07-20-2012, 07:42 PM
  #323
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this reminds me of COACH from cheers.

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07-20-2012, 07:46 PM
  #324
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One thing that has not been discussed much is that the way the payment is. The Flyers have offered $1,000,000 in salary and $25,000,000 in signing bonus. This means if there is a lock out... and you have to like the chances now... the Preds or Flyers must still pay Weber his bonus.
The Flyers are most likely financially healthy enough to risk this (as Comcast is the actual payee) but I do not know if the Preds are able to let go with $12,000,000 with a very possible outcome of not having enough revenue to re pay it.

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07-20-2012, 07:47 PM
  #325
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It's sad to think that a lockout could be a good thing for us.

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