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Old
07-18-2012, 05:34 PM
  #126
upthepucx
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Man, this first post is going to make me look like a really bad person:

If the Pittsburgh Penguins were an NBA franchise, who just signed Dwight Howard to a 12-year, 104 million dollar contract, you would NOT hear a PEEP from these community organizers.

Reasons are both racial (I cannot believe I'm calling "reverse racism" here... it makes me feel a little sick), and economic.

This is because hockey is a predominantly white sport (though the NHL is making inroads, which I'm a HUGE supporter of), with a reasonably high cost of entry. A new set of pads, skates, sticks, etc. can easily run into thousands of dollars. A basketball costs $30 or less.

I don't think the Penguins owe the Hill anything beyond what they've already promised. The Hill District is not a borough, city, or any other sort of taxing entity. The City of Pittsburgh is. The City of Pittsburgh sees those tax dollars, and funnels them to the Hill District, to an equal an appropriate level.

I do think the Penguins should work to expand upon "Hockey in the Hood" (which is a terrible name BTW), and build a rink in a minority-heavy area, so that minority kids don't automatically discriminate against it because they aren't seeing many players that look like them. But out of my spite for the Hill District's sense of entitlement (I grew up on Centre Avenue, and that attitude was very prevalent in the early 90's), they should build a youth rink in Homewood, Garfield, or East Liberty (and not the "North Shadyside" part of E. Liberty).

End rant.

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07-18-2012, 07:55 PM
  #127
mrzeigler
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Has anyone brought up the boatload of cash the "Here we go homeless black dude" panhandler who is not homeless but is black rakes in at the base of the melody tent stairway?

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Old
07-18-2012, 08:25 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Actually the decline of the cities generally was more a cause of the development of the suburbs post world two. You may even be able to blame the invention of the automobile before that. The trip from Penn Hills to Downtown Pittsburgh by horse and buggy was not comfortable or fast, but once the automobile made people mobil, they moved to non-urban settings. The house with the white picket fence. The urban redevelopment of the 60's, which this project was a part of, was part of a nationwide attempt to address this exodus. Build something shiny and people will stay/come back. They all failed to one degree or another because they did not address why people left in the first place. In many cases they made it worse as they took on huge bonds to build things like Allegheny Mall, that stopped no one from leaving, but just raised taxes to pay for. Or made huge projects that were 'improvements' for the poor, but the projects bred crime and other issues that the communities that they destroyed to build these fought by being just that, vibrant communities.

So yeah, putting this on the Pens and acting like they owe someone something is showing a blantant lack of understanding of what went on in society right after WWII and the real mistakes which were made.

It's off topic, but an interesting detour that likely won't go beyond this post, ... Marchetti's Constant asserts that from neolithic times to the present, people have chosen to live in places where they have no more than 1 hour of commuting (for work, hunting, whatever they have to do to survive) each day.

If you commute by foot, you're going to live closer to wherever you have to be. If you catch a trolley, you can live in Swissvale; if you have a Desoto, you won't mind the stop signs and traffic lights from Monroeville to downtown; if you have a nearby onramp to the Turnpike, with our 65 mph speed limit that in practice is about 75 mph, you won't mind the 66-mile round trip from Irwin to Hampton Township every day.

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07-19-2012, 11:46 AM
  #129
GermanTitov
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give em their dollar surcharge only if they promise to get the hell out of there. you have 5 years to collect the revenues then yous gots to go......one thing i hate about Pittsburgh is the fact you cant live in/near the city. thats why pittsburgh is always refered to as a "small town" big city. if you enjoy city living you have limited options.

i recently went on a cross country road trip and seen how other cities are set up. i enjoyed Chicago the most, if your familiar with Chicagos set up i wish that Pittsburgh extended into the east hills like Chicago does. i know Chicago has alot of bad areas as well but there is alot of safe city living as well. if the Hill was demolished i wouldnt be upset, i think its time to start over. everyones to blame for the current condition of the Hill including the current residents. the City failed, the Residents failed. sorry times up. knock it down and start over

P.S. i wonder how many people currently living in the hill can even remember life before Mellon/Civic areana

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07-19-2012, 12:00 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by GermanTitov View Post
give em their dollar surcharge only if they promise to get the hell out of there. you have 5 years to collect the revenues then yous gots to go......one thing i hate about Pittsburgh is the fact you cant live in/near the city. thats why pittsburgh is always refered to as a "small town" big city. if you enjoy city living you have limited options.

i recently went on a cross country road trip and seen how other cities are set up. i enjoyed Chicago the most, if your familiar with Chicagos set up i wish that Pittsburgh extended into the east hills like Chicago does. i know Chicago has alot of bad areas as well but there is alot of safe city living as well. if the Hill was demolished i wouldnt be upset, i think its time to start over. everyones to blame for the current condition of the Hill including the current residents. the City failed, the Residents failed. sorry times up. knock it down and start over

P.S. i wonder how many people currently living in the hill can even remember life before Mellon/Civic areana
As I pointed out before, that is what a lot of cities did post WWII as the rich, then the middle class, started fleeing the cities in droves. Unless you understand why people left you will never get the replacement right. First of all taxes remain overwhelming in the city, and the more people leave the fewer to share the burden so the worse it gets. The city also has assets which are not uniquely used by only city residents so some of the burden of them should be, and are, shared. Sewickly Heights, Murreysville, where ever is not so attractive if there are no plays, sporting events, major hotels and restaurants, the museums and on and on which are in the city. Revitalizing the cities and the things everyone for miles around uses should be a joint venture between state, county and city. But at the same time the surrounding areas need some real say and assurances that the money will not just be a handout to special interest groups like the public employee unions. When you build and replace understand why people left and give them good reasons to return and reinvest in the cities they left. For the most part they left for very good reasons. You are not going to get them to come back without addressing those reasons AND giving them a major say in how those additional resources are used.

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07-19-2012, 12:49 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upthepucx View Post
Man, this first post is going to make me look like a really bad person:

If the Pittsburgh Penguins were an NBA franchise, who just signed Dwight Howard to a 12-year, 104 million dollar contract, you would NOT hear a PEEP from these community organizers.

Reasons are both racial (I cannot believe I'm calling "reverse racism" here... it makes me feel a little sick), and economic.

This is because hockey is a predominantly white sport (though the NHL is making inroads, which I'm a HUGE supporter of), with a reasonably high cost of entry. A new set of pads, skates, sticks, etc. can easily run into thousands of dollars. A basketball costs $30 or less.

I don't think the Penguins owe the Hill anything beyond what they've already promised. The Hill District is not a borough, city, or any other sort of taxing entity. The City of Pittsburgh is. The City of Pittsburgh sees those tax dollars, and funnels them to the Hill District, to an equal an appropriate level.

I do think the Penguins should work to expand upon "Hockey in the Hood" (which is a terrible name BTW), and build a rink in a minority-heavy area, so that minority kids don't automatically discriminate against it because they aren't seeing many players that look like them. But out of my spite for the Hill District's sense of entitlement (I grew up on Centre Avenue, and that attitude was very prevalent in the early 90's), they should build a youth rink in Homewood, Garfield, or East Liberty (and not the "North Shadyside" part of E. Liberty).

End rant.
I can't really disagree with anything specifically here other than to say that I believe "Hockey in the Hood" is now called Pittsburgh ICE. I used to volunteer for the program when it began.

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Old
07-19-2012, 12:52 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanTitov View Post
give em their dollar surcharge only if they promise to get the hell out of there. you have 5 years to collect the revenues then yous gots to go......one thing i hate about Pittsburgh is the fact you cant live in/near the city. thats why pittsburgh is always refered to as a "small town" big city. if you enjoy city living you have limited options.

i recently went on a cross country road trip and seen how other cities are set up. i enjoyed Chicago the most, if your familiar with Chicagos set up i wish that Pittsburgh extended into the east hills like Chicago does. i know Chicago has alot of bad areas as well but there is alot of safe city living as well. if the Hill was demolished i wouldnt be upset, i think its time to start over. everyones to blame for the current condition of the Hill including the current residents. the City failed, the Residents failed. sorry times up. knock it down and start over

P.S. i wonder how many people currently living in the hill can even remember life before Mellon/Civic areana
Oh great another "get the hell out rant". Nevermind the fact that these are real people. Let's kick them out so you can move in and "enjoy city living". No one is stopping you from living in the city.

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07-19-2012, 12:54 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
As I pointed out before, that is what a lot of cities did post WWII as the rich, then the middle class, started fleeing the cities in droves. Unless you understand why people left you will never get the replacement right. First of all taxes remain overwhelming in the city, and the more people leave the fewer to share the burden so the worse it gets. The city also has assets which are not uniquely used by only city residents so some of the burden of them should be, and are, shared. Sewickly Heights, Murreysville, where ever is not so attractive if there are no plays, sporting events, major hotels and restaurants, the museums and on and on which are in the city. Revitalizing the cities and the things everyone for miles around uses should be a joint venture between state, county and city. But at the same time the surrounding areas need some real say and assurances that the money will not just be a handout to special interest groups like the public employee unions. When you build and replace understand why people left and give them good reasons to return and reinvest in the cities they left. For the most part they left for very good reasons. You are not going to get them to come back without addressing those reasons AND giving them a major say in how those additional resources are used.
I agree with this. Solid post.

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Old
07-19-2012, 05:51 PM
  #134
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A big problem with t he city is it's limited scope. I have worked in the city, went to school in the city, and even lived in the city as a student, but I've never been able to vote for the mayor. It's a 25 min drive to city center for me. I have never thought that was right, as the decisions the city makes have impacted me over the year just as much as people who live in the city.

A large chunk of Pittsburgh population left when the mills closed. Those workers took their children with them, which has essentially taken about a half million to a million people away from Pittsburgh's population if you break the numbers out.

Another chunk of people I see leaving the city are young people. Pittsburgh has jobs, but they tend to be very specialized (i.e. engineering, biological/chemical, IT, healthcare). Not a ton of entry level jobs, and I think you're seeing that because of the droves of young people who are moving elsewhere for work.

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:10 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by GermanTitov View Post

P.S. i wonder how many people currently living in the hill can even remember life before Mellon/Civic areana
i saw movies of the hill 40-50's man that place was booming.....then gov. decided to help them....

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Old
07-19-2012, 11:17 PM
  #136
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i saw movies of the hill 40-50's man that place was booming.....then gov. decided to help them....
Pittsburgh overall in the 40's and 50's was booming.

In 1940, Pittsburgh was the 10th most populated city in the US. In 1950, we were the 12th. In 2012, we're not even in the top 50.

If you start looking at Pittsburgh metro, we're the 22nd largest population in the US in 2012. We have about 250k less people in the area here in 2012 than we did in 1950.

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Old
07-20-2012, 11:33 AM
  #137
mrzeigler
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
Pittsburgh overall in the 40's and 50's was booming.

In 1940, Pittsburgh was the 10th most populated city in the US. In 1950, we were the 12th. In 2012, we're not even in the top 50.

If you start looking at Pittsburgh metro, we're the 22nd largest population in the US in 2012. We have about 250k less people in the area here in 2012 than we did in 1950.
Just as we all suspected: Government handouts killed the Hill.

Or, wait, those numbers would indicate that the the population decline due to private industry opting to shift heavy industry overseas is the culprit. Damn. Don't you hate when the boogeyman actually is your best friend?


(Of course it's a gross oversimplification and exaggeration, but that's no less than what some others in here are spouting.)

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07-20-2012, 11:37 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by mrzeigler View Post
It's off topic, but an interesting detour that likely won't go beyond this post, ... Marchetti's Constant asserts that from neolithic times to the present, people have chosen to live in places where they have no more than 1 hour of commuting (for work, hunting, whatever they have to do to survive) each day.

If you commute by foot, you're going to live closer to wherever you have to be. If you catch a trolley, you can live in Swissvale; if you have a Desoto, you won't mind the stop signs and traffic lights from Monroeville to downtown; if you have a nearby onramp to the Turnpike, with our 65 mph speed limit that in practice is about 75 mph, you won't mind the 66-mile round trip from Irwin to Hampton Township every day.
Really? I always liked to commute 2 hours to and from work.

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Old
07-20-2012, 11:42 AM
  #139
mrzeigler
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Really? I always liked to commute 2 hours to and from work.
Well, not everyone has a beaded drivers seat cover like you.

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07-20-2012, 05:37 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by mrzeigler View Post
Just as we all suspected: Government handouts killed the Hill.

Or, wait, those numbers would indicate that the the population decline due to private industry opting to shift heavy industry overseas is the culprit. Damn. Don't you hate when the boogeyman actually is your best friend?


(Of course it's a gross oversimplification and exaggeration, but that's no less than what some others in here are spouting.)
yep, and it only affeced the hill.......

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