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Will Jean Ratelle ever have his # retired by the Rangers?

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Old
07-17-2012, 07:13 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
No surprise that I disagree. I feel the rafters have been cheapened but it is a symptom of a larger problem.

We have become a society that loves to bestow honors on our own.

We give out awards for everything. On TV it seems like every week there is some awards show.

We used to reserve rewards for greatness. Now it is for the very good and or the popular.

The baseball hof has allowed Mazeroski, among others in.

MSG went nuts because of the Cup. Kovalev was as important as Graves for that Cup. Should we put him up there?

In little league everyone gets a trophy

That I agree. That is one of the things that is ruining our society. No standards. Everyone graduates whether or not qualified. But if we get into too much of this hear we are admonished.

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07-17-2012, 07:27 PM
  #77
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The Red Sox have it right, either 10 years and/or HOF

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07-18-2012, 07:28 AM
  #78
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i don't think it necessarily matters how long you're with a franchise, if you played 6 seasons with a team but are only directly identified with that franchise then the seasons don't matter. adam graves was here for 10 years, but the 4 seasons he played in the NHL before he came to the rangers he wasn't a great player.

i'm obviously going to be a little biased because adam graves is my favorite ranger, but the guy deserves it. talking about guys being the rafters purely based on stats or being "elite" is ridiculous, because that's not how building your team works. retired numbers are for guys who are seen as being cornerstones of the franchise, and i would say that graves was always that. he played 6-8 incredible years with the team, put up 35+ goals 3 times (including the 52 goal season) and i would argue that there were times he was just as important as messier in the 93-94 season. when the team came out slow, graves was the guy to get momentum swinging in the rangers favor.

i think ratelle should have been retired years ago, park i'm not so sure about.

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07-18-2012, 10:27 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Graves is no sure selection over Nystrom. It's an arguable point. Not sure who I would have taken.
This.

I take Nystrom though. He won 4 cups

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07-19-2012, 08:05 AM
  #80
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This.

I take Nystrom though. He won 4 cups
You never saw either of them play live, let alone in their primes. Nystrom was not as good a hockey player as Graves. A better fighter, sure but he didn't have Graves' hockey skill set. Not that Nystrom was a bad hockey player but he just wasn't as good as Graves. Just because he was lucky to be on a dynasty and win 4 times makes him better? I don't think so.

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07-19-2012, 10:39 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Ruotsalainen29 View Post
You never saw either of them play live, let alone in their primes. Nystrom was not as good a hockey player as Graves. A better fighter, sure but he didn't have Graves' hockey skill set. Not that Nystrom was a bad hockey player but he just wasn't as good as Graves. Just because he was lucky to be on a dynasty and win 4 times makes him better? I don't think so.
I saw them both play live and while Graves scored more goals, their point production was pretty similar.

As tough as Graves was to play against, Nystrom was tougher and he came up big in big spots. This is a very fair discussion.

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07-19-2012, 10:54 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruotsalainen29 View Post
You never saw either of them play live, let alone in their primes. Nystrom was not as good a hockey player as Graves. A better fighter, sure but he didn't have Graves' hockey skill set. Not that Nystrom was a bad hockey player but he just wasn't as good as Graves. Just because he was lucky to be on a dynasty and win 4 times makes him better? I don't think so.
Like Messier said, and I'm paraphrasing...

"You can win a bunch of Stanley Cups, Olympic medals, etc... and never be a winner. You can never win a Stanley Cup or an Olympic medal, and be one hell of a winner."

I take Graves over Nystrom. Four Cups my ass.

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07-19-2012, 11:25 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I saw them both play live and while Graves scored more goals, their point production was pretty similar.

As tough as Graves was to play against, Nystrom was tougher and he came up big in big spots. This is a very fair discussion.
That big spot in '80 should have never happened b/c he was offsides!

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07-19-2012, 11:42 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I saw them both play live and while Graves scored more goals, their point production was pretty similar.

As tough as Graves was to play against, Nystrom was tougher and he came up big in big spots. This is a very fair discussion.
This.

Watched documentary of 80's Islanders, man they would've been scary to play against. And people still go hoopla over the 70's Flyers. 80's Islanders look just as intimidating.

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07-19-2012, 11:46 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Everyday Im Hagelin View Post
Like Messier said, and I'm paraphrasing...

"You can win a bunch of Stanley Cups, Olympic medals, etc... and never be a winner. You can never win a Stanley Cup or an Olympic medal, and be one hell of a winner."

I take Graves over Nystrom. Four Cups my ass.
They were statistically similar. What makes Graves the easy choice.

You can be sure that if Graves won four Cups here you would find it relevant to the discussion.

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07-19-2012, 12:03 PM
  #86
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I actually agree with Chosen (I think hell is facing is a cold front).

Graves and Nystrom are/were statistically similar players who provided a needed element of scoring/toughness to their respective teams.

With that said, I don't have a problem with either of their respective NY teams retiring their numbers.

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07-19-2012, 12:54 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
They were statistically similar. What makes Graves the easy choice.

You can be sure that if Graves won four Cups here you would find it relevant to the discussion.
Because if Graves won four Cups, he probably would have had more of an impact on why they won them. Now I know that's speculating on my part, but IMO, Graves was the better hockey player.

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07-20-2012, 09:16 PM
  #88
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I'm usually a hardliner on retiring jerseys but Ratelle deserves it at least as much as some other people. He played a long time as a Ranger on one of if not the best line in our history. Its not like he asked to be traded.

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07-20-2012, 09:32 PM
  #89
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Graves is 3rd all time in goals in Rangers history.

Its not that far fetched that his number is retired.

However...Bill Cook scored only 51 less goals as a Ranger, in approximately 300 less games...and won 2 Stanley Cups...and his number five isn't retired...

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07-20-2012, 11:36 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
However...Bill Cook scored only 51 less goals as a Ranger, in approximately 300 less games...and won 2 Stanley Cups...and his number five isn't retired...

The Rangers didn't retire numbers in those days. You want to retire his number today? How many people here even know what number he wore? It would be meaningless.

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07-21-2012, 10:29 AM
  #91
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Despite being traded Ratelle still is ranked highly among Rangers all time statistics.

His 817 points as a Ranger are 3rd most all time only trailing Leetch and Gilbert.

His 336 goals as a Ranger are 2nd most all time only trailing Gilbert.

I think those numbers show he belongs.

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07-21-2012, 10:46 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
The Rangers didn't retire numbers in those days. You want to retire his number today? How many people here even know what number he wore? It would be meaningless.
Who cares? It's just to show that the Rangers honor him.

It's pathetic how the Rangers ignore their history, except the 1994 team.

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07-21-2012, 12:52 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
Ratelle won"t get his number raised, as Brad Park did not. They were not Rangers long enough.
BOTH Ratelle and Park deserve their numbers retired.

NEITHER ever should have been traded, I know most of you here are in the teens to early 30s (as am I) but many older (late 40s and up) I am guessing hated that trade and considered it be basically something so awful....it is hard to think about.

Jay Moran's book "The Rangers, The Bruins, and the End of an Era" http://www.amazon.com/The-Rangers-Br.../dp/1438989008
discusses this.

Really really a shame and one of the most ugly things in franchise history.

I think Brad Park is still mad...I mean neither Park or Ratelle were in the Alumni game....that's just sad and I wish things could be patched up.

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Old
07-21-2012, 01:18 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Doakes View Post
BOTH Ratelle and Park deserve their numbers retired.

NEITHER ever should have been traded, I know most of you here are in the teens to early 30s (as am I) but many older (late 40s and up) I am guessing hated that trade and considered it be basically something so awful....it is hard to think about.

Jay Moran's book "The Rangers, The Bruins, and the End of an Era" http://www.amazon.com/The-Rangers-Br.../dp/1438989008
discusses this.

Really really a shame and one of the most ugly things in franchise history.

I think Brad Park is still mad...I mean neither Park or Ratelle were in the Alumni game....that's just sad and I wish things could be patched up.

Regretting a trade is no reason to retire a number. Face it. Park is no longer a Ranger or thought of as a Ranger. Are you going to retire his number 2 next to Leetch's?

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07-21-2012, 04:21 PM
  #95
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I think he was definitely with us long enough. He played more games than other people who have had their numbers retired.

If he is 2nd all time in NY Rangers goals and 3rd all time in NY Rangers points and he played in the 6th most games of any NY Ranger player than didn't he have had to have been here long enough?

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