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Weber signed to offer sheet (TSN: 14 yrs, $110m, cap hit $7.8m per yr.) Part 2

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07-20-2012, 09:54 PM
  #351
FLYERMANIAA
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I read if the Flyers should get this deal done they would go after ryan next...if the chips fall properly...

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07-20-2012, 09:55 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by FLYERMANIAA View Post
I read if the Flyers should get this deal done they would go after ryan next...if the chips fall properly...
Link?

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07-20-2012, 09:55 PM
  #353
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I still have this sick feeling that they will match.

If they do, well then it was nice having Shea Weber for a week

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07-20-2012, 10:00 PM
  #354
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Link?
i believe it was a twitter report may have been across the blue line or broad street hockey just cant recall

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07-20-2012, 10:01 PM
  #355
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So bad sources

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07-20-2012, 10:01 PM
  #356
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Also, should stop reading Broad Street Hockey.

They put too much of their articles into advanced stats.

Carle = Suter? Really?

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07-20-2012, 10:03 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Also, should stop reading Broad Street Hockey.

They put too much of their articles into advanced stats.

Carle = Suter? Really?
just twitter...lol

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07-20-2012, 10:07 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
The side agreement would be something like :

To PHI
2 1sts

To NSH
Voracek, Meszaros, Gustafsson/bourdon
So it's Voracek, Mez, Gus/Bourdon and two firsts for him? That's more than the 4 firsts they have to give up.

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07-20-2012, 10:08 PM
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Also, should stop reading Broad Street Hockey.

They put too much of their articles into advanced stats.

Carle = Suter? Really?
In other words don't read BSH because they actually provide facts to back up their arguments.

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07-20-2012, 10:10 PM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
So it's Voracek, Mez, Gus/Bourdon and two firsts for him? That's more than the 4 firsts they have to give up.
It gives them more immediate help to their roster and since it's more than 4 1sts, they would think it over more

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07-20-2012, 10:10 PM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
In other words don't read BSH because they actually provide facts to back up their arguments.
Do you think Suter and Weber are equal hockey players?

No, they aren't. You can construe certain stats to fit your argument with advanced statistics

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07-20-2012, 10:12 PM
  #362
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I would really prefer to keep Voracek.

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07-20-2012, 10:12 PM
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
It gives them more immediate help to their roster and since it's more than 4 1sts, they would think it over more
It doesn't make sense for the Flyers. Why give up more than necessary? If they ask for a trade then that signals they aren't matching.

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07-20-2012, 10:13 PM
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
In other words don't read BSH because they actually provide facts to back up their arguments.
Well, some people are not proponents of advanced hockey stats (like me).

I'm a huge Sabremetric nerd when it comes to baseball, but I'm just not a fan of hockey Sabremetric stats.

And that is what a vast majority of their articles are backed by.

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07-20-2012, 10:14 PM
  #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Do you think Suter and Weber are equal hockey players?

No, they aren't. You can construe certain stats to fit your argument with advanced statistics
What does Weber have to do with a Carle or Suter comparison?

I personally have a hard time taking anyone seriously that dismisses any stat that disagrees with them.

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07-20-2012, 10:15 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
It doesn't make sense for the Flyers. Why give up more than necessary? If they ask for a trade then that signals they aren't matching.
We have to shed some salary and a defenseman already, so Meszaros would likely be gone anyways.

that breaks down to :

2 1sts for Voracek and Gustaffson/Read plus a cap dump of Meszaros.

Nashville asking for a trade doesn't signal that they aren't matching.. They are just trying to get more for their roster than 4 gambles

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07-20-2012, 10:16 PM
  #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
What does Weber have to do with a Carle or Suter comparison?

I personally have a hard time taking anyone seriously that dismisses any stat that disagrees with them.
Meant to say suter and Carle.. not weber

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07-20-2012, 10:24 PM
  #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
Well, some people are not proponents of advanced hockey stats (like me).

I'm a huge Sabremetric nerd when it comes to baseball, but I'm just not a fan of hockey Sabremetric stats.

And that is what a vast majority of their articles are backed by.
Not everyone is going to be into sabremetrics which is understandable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
We have to shed some salary and a defenseman already, so Meszaros would likely be gone anyways.

that breaks down to :

2 1sts for Voracek and Gustaffson/Read plus a cap dump of Meszaros.

Nashville asking for a trade doesn't signal that they aren't matching.. They are just trying to get more for their roster than 4 gambles
Nashville's first reaction to the offer sheet was to spend the day trying to move him. If they are still talking trade to me it's clear they really don't want to match. So I don't bend over backwards to make sure they don't.

I don't mind giving up Meszaros. I just don't want to give up more than necessary. The most I would do is Voracek and Mez for two of the firsts back. That way it boils down to Voracek, Mez, and two firsts for him which is similar to the Pronger trade.

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07-20-2012, 10:27 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Ruslan Fedotenko ($1.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.719m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Shea Weber ($7.850m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Bruno Gervais ($0.825m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Michael Leighton ($0.900m)
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CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $8,158,806


Money may be off on some players. Gervais in there as a place holder for Bourdon or Gustasson
That leaves money to get Semin or Doan but I doubt they get either.

Maybe a few smaller pick ups:

Center - Arnott or Moore
RW - Knuble, Fehr, or Sykora


Hartnell - Giroux - Sykora
Schenn - Briere - Simmonds
Read - Coots - Rusty
Talbot - Arnott/Moore - Wellwood

Kimo - Weber
Coburn - Schenn
Grossman - Gervais

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07-20-2012, 10:28 PM
  #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Not everyone is going to be into sabremetrics which is understandable.



Nashville's first reaction to the offer sheet was to spend the day trying to move him. If they are still talking trade to me it's clear they really don't want to match. So I don't bend over backwards to make sure they don't.

I don't mind giving up Meszaros. I just don't want to give up more than necessary. The most I would do is Voracek and Mez for two of the firsts back. That way it boils down to Voracek, Mez, and two firsts for him which is similar to the Pronger trade.
Wrong. They were trying to move him BEFORE an offer sheet was signed. Now that it was signed, they can not trade his rights. They either have him for at least 365 days or the flyers get him.

And gustafsson/bourdon isnt a huge piece to give up. You seem to be stuck on including one of those two when they could be had pretty easily

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07-20-2012, 10:36 PM
  #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Wrong. They were trying to move him BEFORE an offer sheet was signed. Now that it was signed, they can not trade his rights. They either have him for at least 365 days or the flyers get him.

And gustafsson/bourdon isnt a huge piece to give up. You seem to be stuck on including one of those two when they could be had pretty easily
They were aware there was a pending offer sheet when they attempted to move him.

Bourdon I would agree with, but I value Gus more. Though I agree ultimately it probably isn't going to be a deal breaker so I probably overreacted a bit.

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07-20-2012, 10:54 PM
  #372
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Wrong. They were trying to move him BEFORE an offer sheet was signed. Now that it was signed, they can not trade his rights. They either have him for at least 365 days or the flyers get him.

And gustafsson/bourdon isnt a huge piece to give up. You seem to be stuck on including one of those two when they could be had pretty easily
yeah, Voracek is the tougher pill to swallow. I would obviously prefer to see Wellwood or Laughton sent rather then Voracek but that is just being piggish. I am sure the Flyers don't want to be bullies (no pun intended) at the expense of a small market team.

Bourdon or Gus are just fodder at this point.

I keep going back to the Gratton acquisition. Reneberg was a more complete player then Voracek and a better finisher that was coming off a injury plagued season but was still equal or greater value then Voracek. Mez is a better all around dman then Dykhuis was although Dykhuis still had some natural ability and potential but was absented minded too often. I am pretty sure Snider and Clarke made sure they gave solid value to TB.

Reneberg > Voracek
Mez > Dykhuis


Last edited by lancer247: 07-20-2012 at 11:00 PM.
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07-20-2012, 11:15 PM
  #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Do you think Suter and Weber are equal hockey players?

No, they aren't. You can construe certain stats to fit your argument with advanced statistics
Stats are stats, period. When taken out of context, they can certainly be tailored to fit an argument, but that is the responsibility of whoever is doing the writing/analysis.

If I want to talk about how many Americans use the Internet, I can either say either three-quarters are online, or that one-quarter are not online. That is all (and it is a fact, or was as of recently).

Advanced stats are only trying to account for other on-ice variables. Comparisons between players are most effective when accounting for the teams in which those individuals are nested (yay hierarchical structuring). Could Carle and Weber have similar statistics? Sure. Can this exist even after accounting for strength of competition and other factors? Absolutely. If it does, would it appear they are similar? Surely. There's nothing wrong with saying that. It doesn't mean they do not do different things on the ice, or do some things more effectively than other.

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07-20-2012, 11:18 PM
  #374
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Come on guys you cant have weber and keep everyone someone has to go if weber comes here..

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07-20-2012, 11:19 PM
  #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
We have to shed some salary and a defenseman already, so Meszaros would likely be gone anyways.

that breaks down to :

2 1sts for Voracek and Gustaffson/Read plus a cap dump of Meszaros.

Nashville asking for a trade doesn't signal that they aren't matching.. They are just trying to get more for their roster than 4 gambles

If they can match, they will. If they can't, they'll start negotiating trades.

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