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Flyers sign Shea Weber to 14-year offer sheet ($7.857M Cap Hit) (Pt VI)
Without any context, you could assume that by signing an offer sheet he was would either be happy to go to that team or to stay if it was matched. But when you listen to his agent it is very clear that they do not want Nashville to match. If they do he will be theirs for a year and then the trade talks will very likely start all over again.
I agree.
The agent won't give straight answers about how the feel about Nashville, but you can read between the lines. And honestly, the way they're talking, it sounds like he has checked out his options and wants to go to Philly. I mean, the agent is talking about settling down and being comfortable with the living arrangements, I don't think a year from now Weber will suddenly decide he wants to play in Manhattan. So we could be back here in a year with Weber wanting to go to Philly. I don't think Nashville would be in a stronger position then. And they'd be out millions.
The agent won't give straight answers about how the feel about Nashville, but you can read between the lines. And honestly, the way they're talking, it sounds like he has checked out his options and wants to go to Philly. I mean, the agent is talking about settling down and being comfortable with the living arrangements, I don't think a year from now Weber will suddenly decide he wants to play in Manhattan. So we could be back here in a year with Weber wanting to go to Philly. I don't think Nashville would be in a stronger position then. And they'd be out millions.
I think he wants to get paid and get out of NSH, judging by what his agent has said. I know he came here, to Van, and I also know we did not want to offersheet him as we did not think there was one that NSH would not match, so I don't think it is I only want to go to Philly.
What I'm saying is when Parise snubbed the Flyers there was outrage by Flyers fans which turned into comments from the same people about what an awful contract it was and how he will never perform up to that level.
But loosing your two franchise players does hurt, and could be cause for a rebuild. Can you imagine the Canucks without the twins? Pens with no sid and Malkin? Det without Lidstro... er Dats and Zett?
To me this is why NSH has to match, suck up the money, and trade him next year. Its the way they will loose the least amount of money in the end. Sure two 13 mil lump sums is going to suck, but think of what the return would be, and maybe in the next CBA, you can trade for some Cash to make up a bit of the difference.
The Pens made the playoffs the one year Sid and Malkin were out injured. I think a bunch of people are selling the other players on the Preds short. They won't be SC contenders next year without Suter and Weber, but if they did get 4 first round draft picks plus the freed up money they have, they'd be right back, maybe better in 2 or 3 years.
If NAS doesnt match and gets the 4 first rounders in return, is PHI able to offer sheet anyone else worth a first rounder? I presume no (as the 2nd team would have to wait for years for a return), but just curious.
I really think Nashville has more worries than just matching the money. Yes Weber will now be VERY expensive and VERY front loaded, but he is still their best player. If they can find the money, they will match it.
But we are ignoring one thing. What happens when you have a player under contract and they DO NOT want to play for you (heatley, rick nash).
If they are forced to pay money AND forced to trade him, this would be EVEN WORSE, then letting him walk.
I think the key point here is this: Will Weber be ok with staying in Nashville??? (He has suggested the only reason he signed the OS, is because Suter left, that does not sound like a man who is ok with staying)
The Pens made the playoffs the one year Sid and Malkin were out injured. I think a bunch of people are selling the other players on the Preds short. They won't be SC contenders next year without Suter and Weber, but if they did get 4 first round draft picks plus the freed up money they have, they'd be right back, maybe better in 2 or 3 years.
Or they could also moved the picks for immediate help
If NAS doesnt match and gets the 4 first rounders in return, is PHI able to offer sheet anyone else worth a first rounder? I presume no (as the 2nd team would have to wait for years for a return), but just curious.
No, they would have to have their picks to offer sheet
Quote:
Originally Posted by BinCookin
I really think Nashville has more worries than just matching the money. Yes Weber will now be VERY expensive and VERY front loaded, but he is still their best player. If they can find the money, they will match it.
But we are ignoring one thing. What happens when you have a player under contract and they DO NOT want to play for you (heatley, rick nash).
If they are forced to pay money AND forced to trade him, this would be EVEN WORSE, then letting him walk.
I think the key point here is this: Will Weber be ok with staying in Nashville??? (He has suggested the only reason he signed the OS, is because Suter left, that does not sound like a man who is ok with staying)
This will be a huge reason why they may not match.. No point in wasting 27m for one player to trade him a year later
If NAS doesnt match and gets the 4 first rounders in return, is PHI able to offer sheet anyone else worth a first rounder? I presume no (as the 2nd team would have to wait for years for a return), but just curious.
Not unless they trade for their own pick(s) with NSH.
If the Flyers are to offersheet someone next summer, they need their own 2014 draft pick, at least.
The Pens made the playoffs the one year Sid and Malkin were out injured. I think a bunch of people are selling the other players on the Preds short. They won't be SC contenders next year without Suter and Weber, but if they did get 4 first round draft picks plus the freed up money they have, they'd be right back, maybe better in 2 or 3 years.
There is a difference from being compettive, being competitive on the rise, and a contender. This year going into the playoffs NSH was thought of as a real cup contender. Could they make the playoffs without Weber and Suter? yes, they have good goaltending and the teams plays a great team game as well as a defensive style. But they will not be on the rise, this will hurt their ability to attract FA, and can easily snowball.
By matching and getting real assets for him next year, you can do a minny rebuild closer to what Ott did, or even Tampa, who with better injury luck probably makes the playoffs again despite terrible goaltending.
Pits is a contender because like all contenders they are deep, so yes they will be a good team without their two stars, but will not be a contender.
There is a difference from being compettive, being competitive on the rise, and a contender. This year going into the playoffs NSH was thought of as a real cup contender. Could they make the playoffs without Weber and Suter? yes, they have good goaltending and the teams plays a great team game as well as a defensive style. But they will not be on the rise, this will hurt their ability to attract FA, and can easily snowball.
By matching and getting real assets for him next year, you can do a minny rebuild closer to what Ott did, or even Tampa, who with better injury luck probably makes the playoffs again despite terrible goaltending.
Pits is a contender because like all contenders they are deep, so yes they will be a good team without their two stars, but will not be a contender.
Pretty safe to say that paying Weber $26 (at least) million for a season (if there's no lockout, or less than a season if there is) just to trade him is absolutely not an option for the Predators. That is a scenario that just will NOT happen.
Pretty safe to say that paying Weber $26 (at least) million for a season (if there's no lockout, or less than a season if there is) just to trade him is absolutely not an option for the Predators. That is a scenario that just will NOT happen.
wait, but doesn't the contract have a no trade clause that kicks in next year? or is it just the money they have to match? If there is a no trade this is like a timed grenade for nashville. If not, then the owners just have to decide whether it's worth paying 26 million for one more shot with weber.
wait, but doesn't the contract have a no trade clause that kicks in next year? or is it just the money they have to match? If there is a no trade this is like a timed grenade for nashville. If not, then the owners just have to decide whether it's worth paying 26 million for one more shot with weber.
As for NTC, the offer sheet can't include one. It's up to the Flyers to give him one if the Preds don't match. If they do, I'm not sure how it works, if Weber even can demand one.
wait, but doesn't the contract have a no trade clause that kicks in next year? or is it just the money they have to match? If there is a no trade this is like a timed grenade for nashville. If not, then the owners just have to decide whether it's worth paying 26 million for one more shot with weber.
Pretty safe to say that paying Weber $26 (at least) million for a season (if there's no lockout, or less than a season if there is) just to trade him is absolutely not an option for the Predators. That is a scenario that just will NOT happen.
If he wants out it is easily the best option, unless philly is willing to trade other assets for the picks in a handshake deal before the end of the week. Four late firsts is just not enough. They will lose money next year as well as from what some NSH fans have told me, thousands, have said they will not renew the tickets next year if they lose weber. So they are loosing money either way, and honestly not a lot more if they match, as someone did the math, and I think it ends up being once everyone is signed, 3.5 mil more than last year (someone added in all the new salary, subtracted old).
I think he wants to get paid and get out of NSH, judging by what his agent has said. I know he came here, to Van, and I also know we did not want to offersheet him as we did not think there was one that NSH would not match, so I don't think it is I only want to go to Philly.
Perhaps. But I think Vancouver was smart not to offer sheet Weber, because I would think the chances of Poile NOT matching an offer sheet from a Western Conference rival would be a lot slimmer.
Gotta wonder. If Weber was open to a number of possibilities, and not just Philly, he likely would have let this drag on some more. There's still a ton of time before training camps start.
Then there is the whole labor cloud. So basically, for Shea Weber, the offer sheet to Philadelphia represented the perfect storm for himself.
The agent won't give straight answers about how the feel about Nashville, but you can read between the lines. And honestly, the way they're talking, it sounds like he has checked out his options and wants to go to Philly. I mean, the agent is talking about settling down and being comfortable with the living arrangements, I don't think a year from now Weber will suddenly decide he wants to play in Manhattan. So we could be back here in a year with Weber wanting to go to Philly. I don't think Nashville would be in a stronger position then. And they'd be out millions.
Agreed about the agent interview, but disagree about the trade options should Weber still want out as badly next summer. He'd be signed until the end of time with a reasonable cap hit and no NTC whatsoever. The demand will be there and if he cannot suck up being send anywhere other than Philadelphia not even to the Rangers (sticking with your example), then why did that child become a professional athlete in the first ****ing place?
Not unless they trade for their own pick(s) with NSH.
If the Flyers are to offersheet someone next summer, they need their own 2014 draft pick, at least.
Does this really matter? Don't they have to wait 5 years to be able to offer sheet someone worth a 1st since the 1st ain't "theirs"? Think I've read this somewhere, not sure though.
Perhaps. But I think Vancouver was smart not to offer sheet Weber, because I would think the chances of Poile NOT matching an offer sheet from a Western Conference rival would be a lot slimmer.
Gotta wonder. If Weber was open to a number of possibilities, and not just Philly, he likely would have let this drag on some more. There's still a ton of time before training camps start.
Then there is the whole labor cloud. So basically, for Shea Weber, the offer sheet to Philadelphia represented the perfect storm for himself.
Probably right. Personally if I am Weber, I would have done most of the same, but instead of signing an offersheet, told Poile I only want to go here. Trade me here I am not signing with you, or another team if they trade for me. Because then I think you could get your money, and go to where you want to go. Where now there is a chance he stays in NSH, and will have no say in where he can get traded to.
If he wants out it is easily the best option, unless philly is willing to trade other assets for the picks in a handshake deal before the end of the week. Four late firsts is just not enough. They will lose money next year as well as from what some NSH fans have told me, thousands, have said they will not renew the tickets next year if they lose Weber. So they are losing money either way, and honestly not a lot more if they match, as someone did the math, and I think it ends up being once everyone is signed, 3.5 mil more than last year (someone added in all the new salary, subtracted old).
The sport of hockey is NOT easy to drop just like that. Once it gets into your blood, you're hooked. I seriously DOUBT that many people would drop their season tickets. Nashville, from what I've observed, has RABID hockey fans. Some of the most passionate in the game. They'll be pissed, sure, but not renewing? I doubt it very much. It'll be a handful, no more.
One could argue that the 4 first rounders would help get the Preds back into strong contention in the West moreso than keeping Weber...not only because of the four first rounders, but because of their own first rounders and the drop in expectations, which would allow Trotz to develop their youth properly. With Weber, they're still a playoff team but they could wind up mediocre for 14 seasons.
A fully committed Weber is a different story. With that, matching is a no-brainer and the best move for Nashville going forward. Without a strong commitment from the team captain, however, it might be best to move on now instead of in a year's time. The last thing the Preds need is to continue to have a fractured dressing room, complete with hurt feelings and people that don't wanna be there. They've gone through that already and it destroyed their Cup hopes.
I'd take the picks, I think. Not at all an easy decision, but I lean more and more towards the picks.
Agreed about the agent interview, but disagree about the trade options should Weber still want out as badly next summer. He'd be signed until the end of time with a reasonable cap hit and no NTC whatsoever. The demand will be there and if he cannot suck up being send anywhere other than Philadelphia not even to the Rangers (sticking with your example), then why did that child become a professional athlete in the first ****ing place?
If he stays is NSH, I don't see him getting a NTC. It would make no sense on the NSH side too. So he could be traded anywhere.
Does this really matter? Don't they have to wait 5 years to be able to offer sheet someone worth a 1st since the 1st ain't "theirs"? Think I've read this somewhere, not sure though.
It does matter, yes. The picks are theirs if they trade for them back. Has to be your own pick, can't trade for another team's 1st and use in an offer sheet.
The sport of hockey is NOT easy to drop just like that. Once it gets into your blood, you're hooked. I seriously DOUBT that many people would drop their season tickets. Nashville, from what I've observed, has RABID hockey fans. Some of the most passionate in the game. They'll be pissed, sure, but not renewing? I doubt it very much. It'll be a handful, no more.
One could argue that the 4 first rounders would help get the Preds back into strong contention in the West moreso than keeping Weber...not only because of the four first rounders, but because of their own first rounders and the drop in expectations, which would allow Trotz to develop their youth properly. With Weber, they're still a playoff team but they could wind up mediocre for 14 seasons.
A fully committed Weber is a different story. With that, matching is a no-brainer and the best move for Nashville going forward. Without a strong commitment from the team captain, however, it might be best to move on now instead of in a year's time. The last thing the Preds need is to continue to have a fractured dressing room, complete with hurt feelings and people that don't wanna be there. They've gone through that already and it destroyed their Cup hopes.
I'd take the picks, I think. Not at all an easy decision, but I lean more and more towards the picks.
Just saying what many NSH fans have said in person, radio, and internet. I have no clue what the temperature is really like in NSH.
My entire argument at this point is based on Weber wanting out. 4 late firsts is a terrible return for him, the chances of drafting anyone close to his talent is way down. If he wants to stay, the possibilities of the team going in any direction are limitless.
He accepted the offer sheet because this is his last chance at these 100 mill contracts. After the new cba there is going to be a good chance that these onctracts will never exist again.
However I do feel he wants to leave, especially when the writing was on the wall after july 4th. Once suter left i think he realized it was time to follow as well. Had suter stayed , Weber probably wouldve stayed.
I agree. Lets face it, Nashville had a chance to give him a 3 year contract for 7 million per year which would have locked him up well into the new CBA agreement or do I have have bad information? I have to say that for him to be here for three days and no one had any idea he was here is pretty amazing. By what I am hearing what his agent is saying, is it sure sounds to me that his number one location to play is here in Philly. I truly believe we will know in the next day or two what Nashville plans on doing. Man I have my toes and fingers crossed that we get him as I have been saying all the time that he is the hammer this team needs. Horses like him do not grow on trees and trust me, the rags, bevs and pens do not want to see him here.
