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Are the Blues now the best team in the Central?

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Old
07-19-2012, 11:17 AM
  #26
Alklha
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Originally Posted by The Inglorious One View Post
He's forcing Nashville's hand.

It doesn't sound like its the right way to go about but Joe Sakic seemed to turn out ok with Colorado and it certainly didn't hamper anyone's feelings about David Backes here.

But if it's true that he could be getting 26 million in the FIRST YEAR? That doesn't sound like something done thinking Nashville will match.


EDIT: Nashville has 7 days to match Note
A lot depends on what has went on with the offersheet. Backes signed his because it gave him a good bit more than the Blues had on the table at the time. I don't remember there being a situation where we thought the Backes really didn't want to be here.

I think most get the impression that Weber does want out of Nashville, and that is what the problem is. 4 picks in the 20-30 range for him, or pay $26m and get 1 year of Weber and then negotiate a deal that gets you a solid return.

If what the Predators ownership said about being willing to spend the cap and pushing ahead with their team was true... then they have to match.

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07-19-2012, 11:56 AM
  #27
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I may have to revise my previous post. If NSH doesn't match and lose Weber and just go mini rebuild I could see them and Columbus fighting for 4th (in the division)

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07-19-2012, 03:03 PM
  #28
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I'm not surprised at all that Philly signed Weber to an offer sheet. Do people still get surprised by Paul Holmgren...?

Nashville will match, no question. Doubt Poile is worrying at all. They'll lock him up to a contract and could still trade him if they want so they are actually not in a bad spot.

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07-19-2012, 03:33 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
I'm not surprised at all that Philly signed Weber to an offer sheet. Do people still get surprised by Paul Holmgren...?

Nashville will match, no question. Doubt Poile is worrying at all. They'll lock him up to a contract and could still trade him if they want so they are actually not in a bad spot.
Paying a guy 27 million dollars for a year before they can trade him is a bad spot.

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07-19-2012, 04:58 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
Paying a guy 27 million dollars for a year before they can trade him is a bad spot.
But Nashville doesn't have to offer him the same deal with the same terms as philly offered him, right? They may offer him something like 12M for the first 4 years, then 7M for the next 6, then 5M for the last 4. its the same amount of $ but far less front loaded.

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07-19-2012, 05:07 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by jimmykay View Post
But Nashville doesn't have to offer him the same deal with the same terms as philly offered him, right? They may offer him something like 12M for the first 4 years, then 7M for the next 6, then 5M for the last 4. its the same amount of $ but far less front loaded.
As I understand it, the Preds either match Philly's offer exactly, or they don't match it at all. I don't believe they can make any adjustments, even if the final amount is the same.

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07-19-2012, 05:09 PM
  #32
Alklha
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Originally Posted by jimmykay View Post
But Nashville doesn't have to offer him the same deal with the same terms as philly offered him, right? They may offer him something like 12M for the first 4 years, then 7M for the next 6, then 5M for the last 4. its the same amount of $ but far less front loaded.
No, they have to match the dollar value and the pay structure. So if they match, then they are going to have to pay Suter $27m before they would have a chance to trade him.

I think they'll try and work out a deal with Philadelphia to get a better return than the 4 first round picks. I don't expect Philly to be very receptive to the Predators demands, which will lead to Nashville matching the offersheet IMO.

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07-19-2012, 05:14 PM
  #33
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Also, while I do have sympathy for the Predators fans in all this, their management let this entire mess arise. Their blind stupidity in giving him a 1 year deal when he would have signed for 3 last season is why they are here.

People will say hindsight, but they knew that there was a chance Suter would be an UFA and sign somewhere else. They must have known that Weber wouldn't extend until that resolved, and if Suter did leave then the Weber demands would probably go up or he'd be demanding a trade.

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07-19-2012, 05:55 PM
  #34
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Look as though Nashville is guaranteed to be a weaker team this year, even if they retain Weber. Barring massive injuries, Central should be a three horse race.

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07-20-2012, 10:45 AM
  #35
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Seems like this puts Nashville is between a rock and a hard spot.

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07-20-2012, 11:40 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
No, they have to match the dollar value and the pay structure. So if they match, then they are going to have to pay Suter $27m before they would have a chance to trade him.
In that case, If I was Nashville, I'd sign him to that deal and hope that the NHL overturns the hugely frontloaded deal.

However, after they get through that first year, they should be in the clear. Maybe they can sign Semin to a big deal to help keep Weber from demanding a trade and have it heavily loaded in the 2nd or 3rd year?

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07-20-2012, 11:56 AM
  #37
Alklha
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Originally Posted by jimmykay View Post
In that case, If I was Nashville, I'd sign him to that deal and hope that the NHL overturns the hugely frontloaded deal.

However, after they get through that first year, they should be in the clear. Maybe they can sign Semin to a big deal to help keep Weber from demanding a trade and have it heavily loaded in the 2nd or 3rd year?
I doubt that existing contract will be affected by the new CBA. Although I would like to see it made so that any 1 year of a contract can't pay out less than 70% of the caphit and all existing contracts that failed to meet this restructured in a way that they are as close as possible to complying.

Even if new CBA rule changes dealt with existing contracts, they would still have to pay the $13m bonus within 24 hours of matching the contract so they'd get no help there.

To be honest, I think Nashville should try and work out a deal with the Flyers for players/prospects/picks and if that can't be done, and they have the money, match and accept that you'll trade him next summer.

It is either 4 picks in the 20-30 range or paying $27m for 1 year of Weber and then hopefully getting a new face of the franchise from the Oilers (plus depth prospects/picks) for Weber in a years time.

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07-20-2012, 12:06 PM
  #38
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I give Nashville credit for "going for it" last season, although some of the specific moves may be questionable. But this really sucks for them. I feel for their fans.

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07-21-2012, 04:30 AM
  #39
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The 'Note are the best team in the division, on paper. I could care less about anyone else in the division just saying...

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07-21-2012, 06:09 AM
  #40
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I wouldn't be so quick to discount Nashville. If they let Weber go to Philly and collect 4 1st round picks, I could suddenly see them putting together a very good package to get Yandle, Nash, or Ryan. They may not be as strong of a team after losing Suter and Weber, but they are still a strong team.

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07-21-2012, 01:10 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
I wouldn't be so quick to discount Nashville. If they let Weber go to Philly and collect 4 1st round picks, I could suddenly see them putting together a very good package to get Yandle, Nash, or Ryan. They may not be as strong of a team after losing Suter and Weber, but they are still a strong team.
I won't say you're wrong, because that's entirely possible, but I have to say that if I'm trading any of Yandle, Nash, or Ryan, I couldn't care less about draft picks. Give me NHL-players and/or the elitest of the elite prospects (aka: NHL-ready). That could open Nashville up to move their current near-NHL prospects and quickly replace them with those first-rounders, but it would require some smooth moves. I've always admired Poile's performance with Nashville, but his recent record isn't great enough for me to comfortably predict that.

Without breakouts from guys like Ellis, Josi, Wilson, Smith, etc., Nashville is taking a hit from losing Suter, at least, if not also Weber. If they let Weber go, they could be pretty scary in a few years, but it will very likely come with a rough patch.

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07-21-2012, 01:27 PM
  #42
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I don't think there's any question that the Blues are the favorites to win the Central.

Even if Nashville were to retain Weber, it would tie up a huge chunk of their financing for at least the next year. Radulov back to the KHL also deprives them of a big weapon up front. Loss of high picks to use as trade chips, Suter to Minnesota.....they aren't winning the Central this coming season.

This is the year Columbus finally improves, but it's safe to say they aren't really in the conversation either.

Which leaves Chicago and Detroit as the only real threats. These are both teams yet to make their presense felt in FA that are traditionally able to spend more than the Blues. However most of the players Detroit needed are already signed with other teams so I'm not seeing how they can improve much with what's left via FA. Chicago could really benefit from a goaltending upgrade which would be a lot easier to do than what Detroit is up against. As of right this second, the Blues are clearly better than both with Chicago having a chance to close the gap if their goaltending is better.

You hear that? That's opportunity knocking and it doesn't visit the Central often as far as the Blues are concerned.

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07-21-2012, 01:46 PM
  #43
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Chicago's goaltending improves, either through Crawford coming into his own, or acquiring a solid #1 would make them the favorites to win the Central in my opinion. As things currently stand, there's no logical reason to state that the Blues aren't the favorite though. Chicago was leading the conference at the midway point last year, and would've challenged for the division if they wouldn't have gone on that 0-8-1 streak or whatever it was. Honestly, winning the Central would be great, but I'll take any playoff seed. It's harder to win when you don't have home ice, but it's certainly not impossible as this season clearly proved.

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07-21-2012, 02:20 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
Chicago's goaltending improves, either through Crawford coming into his own, or acquiring a solid #1 would make them the favorites to win the Central in my opinion.
I stand by my claim that Chicago is lazy defensively. They have talented defensive players at forward and defense, but they play in such a way that it's possible Crawford could really come into his own and you wouldn't notice that much. They tighten it up in the playoffs somewhat, and that will exponentially improve an already-good goalie, but without coaching and commitment adjustments, it's likely that very few goalies will really look great on Chicago. And, by the same token, the impact of goalie improvement on the Blackhawks is overstated.

Still a threat, without question - the biggest threat to the Blues, in fact; but I wouldn't be surprised if, without a coaching change or defensive shake-up trade, Chicago's biggest weakness remains their biggest weakness.

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07-21-2012, 03:12 PM
  #45
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I think the Central will look like this:

The 1 and 2 spots will be a battle between STL and DET.
The 3 and 4 spots will be a battle between the Whackhawks and the Spreadators.
Number 5 is easily the Brown Jackets.

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07-21-2012, 06:50 PM
  #46
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Detroit lost Lidstrom and Stuart without replacing them.
Nashville lost Suter and probably Weber without replacing them.
Chicago still has no scoring depth and Crawford in goal.
Columbus is still a train wreck.

I don't see any real competition for the top spot.
In fact, it wouldn't shock me at all if we were the only team in the Central to make the PO's next year(us, LA, Van, SJ, PHX and Min are the only real locks I see at the moment with Det, Dal, CGY, ANA, COL and CHI being the fringe teams).

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07-21-2012, 08:10 PM
  #47
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Chicago is basically the same team as last year, and that team made the playoffs. I think if Nashville keeps Weber they still are a playoff team. I think they'll handle losing Suter better than some others. Not that Suter wasn't a prime load-carrier for them, but I think their young defensemen are talented enough to pick up the slack and play alongside possibly the best #1 defenseman in the league in Weber (again, if they keep him).

I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves assuming we'll win the division automatically. I think the Blues are slight favorites, but there's some solid competition in the division, and as we know, a team can gel and get on a roll. Detroit is the team that took the biggest hit (on defense). But Chicago and Nashville might well be more or less as strong as last year, which means the division is no gimme.

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07-21-2012, 08:13 PM
  #48
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I just can't imagine that Chicago does nothing to improve their goaltending. They have to do something right?

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07-21-2012, 08:24 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inglorious One View Post
I just can't imagine that Chicago does nothing to improve their goaltending. They have to do something right?
I'm guessing that they'll get a deal done with Vancouver for Luongo. He's admitted that he's assuming he'll be gone. He's not happy with management there looking at him as a back-up, and he's made his comments public that could be in everyone's interest for him to move on. Under those circumstances, I fully expect Vancouver to trade him before the season begins. Given that, it seems that Chicago is a pretty good potential trade partner.

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07-21-2012, 10:09 PM
  #50
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I'm guessing that they'll get a deal done with Vancouver for Luongo. He's admitted that he's assuming he'll be gone. He's not happy with management there looking at him as a back-up, and he's made his comments public that could be in everyone's interest for him to move on. Under those circumstances, I fully expect Vancouver to trade him before the season begins. Given that, it seems that Chicago is a pretty good potential trade partner.

Agreed, I really hope this is the year Detroit falls... Nashville won't be as good but they should still make hte playoffs with Barry Trotz coaching the team. Chicago will be our biggest threat in our division even without goaltending...BTW who do you think Chicago would give up to get loungo? Kane?

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