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NYI calls up Weinhandl, Hamilton

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Old
12-01-2003, 02:16 PM
  #26
PECAhead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Been arguing with Leafs today fans that feel Tucker+Berg for Hamrlik+Peca is leafs overpaying
They don't believe that the nyi don't want Tucker.

I agree with you that Parrish will get moved at some point this season.Probably Cairns too.


and no way do the nyi bring Tucker into a troubled lockerroom.

Hamrlik's struggling this yr and I have to wonder if that'll effect the isles decision about trying to signing him to an extension.

Would this work?

Peca, Timander, Cairns

Antropov & Berg

Peca the most proven player in the deal. Antropov injured but has top six potential. Berg is top five defender could still be late bloomer and develop into a top four. Cairns and Timander are not as good as Berg but not that far off either. Both are FA after this year so they wouldn't be tied in long term.

I'm not too sure about the leafs needs so if you feel the need to flame me, just keep it in consideration that I'm not fully aware of the leafs roster. If a leaf fans would care to share what this team's needs are please feel free.

The one thing I absolutely do not want seeing coming back to the Isles is Tucker, even for free. I would only take him if he could be flipped in a three-way trade. Otherwise no thanks!!!

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12-01-2003, 02:24 PM
  #27
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I think the Leafs would jump on it like a fat kid on a hot cake .

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12-01-2003, 02:25 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PECAhead
Would this work?

Peca, Timander, Cairns

Antropov & Berg

Peca the most proven player in the deal. Antropov injured but has top six potential. Berg is top five defender could still be late bloomer and develop into a top four. Cairns and Timander are not as good as Berg but not that far off either. Both are FA after this year so they wouldn't be tied in long term.

I'm not too sure about the leafs needs so if you feel the need to flame me, just keep it in consideration that I'm not fully aware of the leafs roster. If a leaf fans would care to share what this team's needs are please feel free.

Leafs wouldnt have any interest in Cairns or Timander. I dont think they would have that much interest in Peca to tell you the truth. The thing the Islanders have that the Leafs covet are named Hamrlik, Niinimaa, and Jonsson. I dont think you'll see a major deal between these two teams that doesnt include one of those three defensemen.

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12-01-2003, 03:00 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by disles1
I agree Vish has more upside but we are a "now" team(competitive) Most of our players are in the 27-32 range. I don't think we can wait 2-4 yrs to find out if Vish will be good--we have to make the playoffs and take our chance now
They're not a "now" team. Now teams don't have 4+ rookies in their lineup on a given night....

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12-01-2003, 03:06 PM
  #30
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[QUOTE=PECAhead]Would this work?

Peca, Timander, Cairns

Antropov & Berg

Peca the most proven player in the deal. Antropov injured but has top six potential. QUOTE]


Leaf fans correct me if I'm mistaken, but 24 yr old Antropov has had injuries to both knees and both shoulders?He's recovering now from a dislocated shoulder?

I don't want him.Too big a gamble injurywise.

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12-01-2003, 03:08 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozeph_Balej
I think the Leafs would jump on it like a fat kid on a hot cake .

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Old
12-01-2003, 03:30 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW


Leaf fans correct me if I'm mistaken, but 24 yr old Antropov has had injuries to both knees and both shoulders?He's recovering now from a dislocated shoulder?

I don't want him.Too big a gamble injurywise.

I agree. Some posters here seem to think that the Leafs could get Hamrlik et al. if they were only "willing" to put Antropov on the table. However, I personally don't think Antropov's trade value is all that high. He did have a great year last year, and has always shown nice upside. But, the injuries are a big problem and may screw up his development.

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Old
12-02-2003, 03:28 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I agree. Some posters here seem to think that the Leafs could get Hamrlik et al. if they were only "willing" to put Antropov on the table. However, I personally don't think Antropov's trade value is all that high. He did have a great year last year, and has always shown nice upside. But, the injuries are a big problem and may screw up his development.
True, he is a risk, but he's a risk that I would take, and hold on to him

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12-02-2003, 04:19 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by pinto80
True, he is a risk, but he's a risk that I would take, and hold on to him
If I am the leafs I would be thrilled to unload him. A glass body is a glass body. He will likely never play more than 40 games a season. To get a relatively healthy player like Peca is a windfall. And note this is coming from someone who despises Peca.

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12-02-2003, 05:11 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by pinto80
True, he is a risk, but he's a risk that I would take, and hold on to him

kinda like MM's other wild gambles?

1.switching Luongo for DiPietro?
2.Passing up Gaborik who they'd heavily scouted for 2 yrs because 3-4 days before the draft,18 yr old DiPietro left college early?
3.overpaying for Kvasha?

Isles don't need more of gamber Milbury.Let another team take the risk.Talent doesn't do a team much good if the player is fragile.

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12-02-2003, 09:07 AM
  #36
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Leafs reporter Howard Berger thinks the Leafs are after Cairns

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12-02-2003, 09:08 AM
  #37
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All you say here about Milbury, Antropov and past deals is true Crew. But the idea that NYI shouldn't gamble isn't realistic. The nature of EVERY trade is that there is going to be inherent risk. Of course, the idea is to minimize the risk v. the reward, but too often, the inference (from many people) is that "we need to get a NHL-proven sure thing in return, and that player must be young, inexpensive and injury-proof."

This is not meant as an endorsment of Antropov, per se. But one is not going to get Mats Sundin's record of production and good health in the body, nor for the price, of a 23 y/o.

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12-02-2003, 09:10 AM
  #38
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I'll make a Cairns thread. Should be funny

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Old
12-02-2003, 09:16 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinto80
True, he is a risk, but he's a risk that I would take, and hold on to him

Makes sense to me. The upside is that he could be the sort of big physical center/winger that every team wants. I think he is one of those guys who is too risky to command much in a deal NOW but he definitely shows signs of being a real stud. Hard not to be impressed by his performance last year.

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Old
12-02-2003, 09:17 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
kinda like MM's other wild gambles?

1.switching Luongo for DiPietro?
2.Passing up Gaborik who they'd heavily scouted for 2 yrs because 3-4 days before the draft,18 yr old DiPietro left college early?
3.overpaying for Kvasha?

Isles don't need more of gamber Milbury.Let another team take the risk.Talent doesn't do a team much good if the player is fragile.

Very well said Crew. You've nailed the Isles management problem.

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Old
12-02-2003, 09:29 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
All you say here about Milbury, Antropov and past deals is true Crew. But the idea that NYI shouldn't gamble isn't realistic. The nature of EVERY trade is that there is going to be inherent risk. Of course, the idea is to minimize the risk v. the reward, but too often, the inference (from many people) is that "we need to get a NHL-proven sure thing in return, and that player must be young, inexpensive and injury-proof."

This is not meant as an endorsment of Antropov, per se. But one is not going to get Mats Sundin's record of production and good health in the body, nor for the price, of a 23 y/o.
yes every trade is a risk,but making a major trade and getting back a fragile 23 yr old as the key is too big a risk for team in the position the nyi are in.They have a tight budget and won't be opening the checkbook.They also have a small prospect pool.Other Nilsson,they don't have one potentially elite prospect in their organization.

We've read that in the past few weeks the Hawks and Wings have also shown an interest in Hamrlik.Boston is now looking for a offensive d-man.
we're acting as if the only team in the league interested in Hamrlik is the Leafs.

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12-02-2003, 09:31 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Makes sense to me. The upside is that he could be the sort of big physical center/winger that every team wants. I think he is one of those guys who is too risky to command much in a deal NOW but he definitely shows signs of being a real stud.
I agree, Darth. I think the Leafs have in Antropov a situation similar to what the Islanders had with Kenny Jonsson. He's a guy that *should* have been able to fetch a good return if you only look at skill and upside, but because of his concussion history he will never get you back a return equal to his contribution. So you end up having to hold onto him and hope he pans out because he's worth more to you as a current and contributing player than the meagre return you'd get due to his history. Same with Antropov. He would fetch a relatively meagre return because of his eggshell body, so the Leafs may as well just hang onto him, hope he develops and hope he beats the injury bug since they won't get much better than a gamble in return for him anyway.

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12-02-2003, 09:39 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Speculation on both our parts, but IMO the only thing that "is up" are Weinhandl and a 26 y/o AHLer.

Weinhandl was headed up all along, once his conditioning was completed.

Hamilton? Filler. No offense to the guy, great news for him, but the impact of the Eric Boguniecki's of the world - guys who belatedly debut in the league in their mid-20s - is typically minimal and/or short-lived.

Shifting chairs on the deck of the Titanic, with Captain Milbury at the helm!

Hopefully it also means a few other players are "up." As in up in the pressbox.

And while I agree with what you say on Hamilton, he has been playing fantastically in the AHL, and has at least earned a shot up on the big club.

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Old
12-02-2003, 09:47 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
yes every trade is a risk,but making a major trade and getting back a fragile 23 yr old as the key is too big a risk for team in the position the nyi are in.
Fair point.

Yes, I think would think that more than a few teams would be interested in Hamrlik. Personally think NYI should and will wait a while longer to see if this current squad can "right" itself before making moves.

If they do make moves, the question becomes: what is the objective(s) and which is the priority?

Reduce salary?

Look to "rebuild"? And if so, to what degree?

Look to replace current established young vets (e.g., Peca, Hamrlik, etc.) with similar types?

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