HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > St. Louis Blues
Notices

Are the Blues now the best team in the Central?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-21-2012, 10:38 PM
  #51
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 7,083
vCash: 714
Columbus was not a bad team at the end of the season. I think they're going to be a pain in the ass for a lot of people, but come up short of the playoffs. I think this is the year Detroit slides back appreciably. I think folks will be disappointed at how effective Nashville continues to be, regardless of who they have playing. Trotz is just too good of a coach, he'll have them playing well enough to be in the playoff hunt the entire season.

Chicago, I'm too biased against them to have an accurate projection. I think they lack the depth to be an elite team, but on any given night they can play with anyone. Not having their Captain out for an extended period would be important for them.

2 Minute Minor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 05:14 AM
  #52
kimzey59
Registered User
 
kimzey59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,622
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Columbus was not a bad team at the end of the season. I think they're going to be a pain in the ass for a lot of people, but come up short of the playoffs. I think this is the year Detroit slides back appreciably. I think folks will be disappointed at how effective Nashville continues to be, regardless of who they have playing. Trotz is just too good of a coach, he'll have them playing well enough to be in the playoff hunt the entire season.

Chicago, I'm too biased against them to have an accurate projection. I think they lack the depth to be an elite team, but on any given night they can play with anyone. Not having their Captain out for an extended period would be important for them.
1) Columbus was exactly a .500 team down the stretch(14-14-1) and even on their "strong end of the season only went 6-4 over the last 10. And that was playing in a no pressure environment with a ton of rookies taking up roster spots. There is no way they could sustain a high level of play long enough to get a PO berth. It's going to take at least 2 years and a monster return on Rick Nash for them to be a PO team.

2) Trotz went 5 years without making the PO's after taking over Nashville and has missed the PO's 6 times in 13 years as an NHL coach. I get that Trotz is considered one of the best coaches in the League, but even the best coach needs a team to work with and Trotz just isn't working with much for next year. He doesn't have any scoring and that defense is downright ugly without Weber and Suter leading the way. I doubt they go completely into the tank, but they look like we did from 2008-2011. Just on the outside with not enough scoring or defense to get over the hump.

3) Chicago is the closest competition we have, but they finished 8 points behind us in the standings and haven't done anything to close that gap. 8 points is a LOT of ground to make up in the Western conference. I think they'll grab one of the PO spots, but they aren't going to be competing with us for the top spot.

kimzey59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 11:54 AM
  #53
STLBLUES44
MILLER TIME
 
STLBLUES44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
1) Columbus was exactly a .500 team down the stretch(14-14-1) and even on their "strong end of the season only went 6-4 over the last 10. And that was playing in a no pressure environment with a ton of rookies taking up roster spots. There is no way they could sustain a high level of play long enough to get a PO berth. It's going to take at least 2 years and a monster return on Rick Nash for them to be a PO team.

2) Trotz went 5 years without making the PO's after taking over Nashville and has missed the PO's 6 times in 13 years as an NHL coach. I get that Trotz is considered one of the best coaches in the League, but even the best coach needs a team to work with and Trotz just isn't working with much for next year. He doesn't have any scoring and that defense is downright ugly without Weber and Suter leading the way. I doubt they go completely into the tank, but they look like we did from 2008-2011. Just on the outside with not enough scoring or defense to get over the hump.

3) Chicago is the closest competition we have, but they finished 8 points behind us in the standings and haven't done anything to close that gap. 8 points is a LOT of ground to make up in the Western conference. I think they'll grab one of the PO spots, but they aren't going to be competing with us for the top spot.
Agree with your take on Columbus and Nashville. Especially if they lose weber also. I understand what your saying about Chicago but they were #1 for almost the entire first half of the season and if it weren't for them going 9 games in a row without a win they would've been up there contesting with us.

I still think the blues will end up winning the division but chicago will be neck in neck with us the whole way

STLBLUES44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 12:40 PM
  #54
Robb_K
Registered User
 
Robb_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NordHolandNethrlands
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerminatorBlue View Post
Agreed, I really hope this is the year Detroit falls... Nashville won't be as good but they should still make hte playoffs with Barry Trotz coaching the team. Chicago will be our biggest threat in our division even without goaltending...BTW who do you think Chicago would give up to get loungo? Kane?
Every GM knows Vancouver is more or less "forced" to trade Luongo. So The Canucks will need to accept less than his value. No way Chicago will need to give up Kane to get him. I'm not sure how the trade would come out (who on The Hawks' roster and what prospects/draft choices would make it work) but the possibilities exist to get it done.

Robb_K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 02:09 PM
  #55
Boyesfan
Registered User
 
Boyesfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 341
vCash: 500
Well now that the blue jackets traded Nash and if Weber does go to Philly then the Central division will have lost 4 super star players and got nothing in return. No more Lidstrom Nash Weber and Suter. I think the Central has gone from one of the top 2 divisions to one of the worst in one off season. So I say it's a two team brawl with the hawks and blues for the Central. I also think the hawks have no depth at all so one injury to Towes Hossa or Kane and I think they are done for and the Blues take the division and run..

Boyesfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 02:11 PM
  #56
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 19,776
vCash: 50
I wouldn't say one of the worst, but the Central is definitely closer to the middle of the pack.

bleedblue1223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 03:04 PM
  #57
rumrokh
I Bleed Blue
 
rumrokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyesfan View Post
Well now that the blue jackets traded Nash and if Weber does go to Philly then the Central division will have lost 4 super star players and got nothing in return. No more Lidstrom Nash Weber and Suter. I think the Central has gone from one of the top 2 divisions to one of the worst in one off season. So I say it's a two team brawl with the hawks and blues for the Central. I also think the hawks have no depth at all so one injury to Towes Hossa or Kane and I think they are done for and the Blues take the division and run..
The past few years for Nash:
09-10: tied for 36th in points, tied for 13th in goals
10-11: tied for 30th in points, tied for 14th in goals
11-12: 59th in points, tied for 25th in goals

He's just a 30-30 player. He has all of the tools, but his mind keeps him from being even the sum of their parts. Maybe he'll crank it up with a good team and a good center, but he just isn't a superstar. Ignore his ridiculous contract; right now, Nash isn't an elite player until he proves it.

Even if Nash does prove it on the Rangers, he's shown his ceiling with Columbus, who could very well be a better team with this trade. Sure, Dubinsky and Anisimov could have another year of 34 and 36 points, but they could also rebound up to the 50 point range. Considering how much the Bluejackets need depth, two guys who combine for 100 points could easily be preferable to a single guy who gets you 65. It's a risk and I'm not saying Columbus is a threat at all for the Central - far from it. But the statement that Columbus got worse and the Central got worse because Nash is gone is very questionable.

rumrokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 03:16 PM
  #58
STL fan in IA
Registered User
 
STL fan in IA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,794
vCash: 500
As things are now, I’d say the Blues are the best. However, no team’s roster is completely set right now so a lot can change. That is very important to keep in mind here.

Detroit’s D is quite weak right now with Kronwall, Quincy, White, Ericsson, Smith and Kindl. They still have a very powerful offense though and Howard’s a good goalie. They have the assets in prospects and forward depth to bring in a d-man or two to take them back to elite level so unfortunately, that’s what I expect will eventually happen. I currently put the Blues ahead of them but things can certainly change if DET is able to fortify their D.

Chicago is very solid all-around. The big question mark for them IMO is goaltending. Crawford/Emery is the weak link of the team but by all accounts, the Hawks are trying to trade for a legit starter so they very well might have one by the start of the season. I currently put the Blues ahead of the Hawks but not by much. The Hawks underperformed last season, especially the first half of the season.

Nashville lost Suter which was huge but I think they’ll keep Weber. They pretty much HAVE to IMO, even at such a high price. Their offense doesn’t scare me (but it’s always seems to perform better than it looks on paper) and any team with Weber and Rinne and coached by Trotz is going to be a very tough team to beat. If they do lose Weber…then they likely take a big step back.

Columbus…is an absolute mess. They might be better than last season but that’s not saying much.

I'll also say that we shouldn't forget that the Blues have a big hole on their roster right now too - 1st pairing LD. Where will the Blues be if they stick with the D they currently have and pairings with the current 6 don’t work well? What if Petro goes down with injury and the Blues are left with Shatty, Jacks, Polak, Russell, Cole and Woywitka? or worse if someone else is also injured at the same time? Injuries play a huge role and while things look good on paper, you never know how things are actually going to play out on the ice.

STL fan in IA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 03:56 PM
  #59
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 7,083
vCash: 714
Rick Nash is a good player, but he gets over-rated due to being a former 1st overall draft pick, in my opinion. I think Columbus might be a better team with this return, and that's not even factoring in the chemistry component of a guy that doesn't want to be there. I feel bad for the Bluejackets fans, but I think they will be better than last season.

2 Minute Minor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 04:01 PM
  #60
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 19,776
vCash: 50
Nash has simply never had very good linemates. Nash + Richards will end up in a ton of goals. I'm expecting him to get at least 40. He's not overrated.

bleedblue1223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 05:17 PM
  #61
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 7,083
vCash: 714
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Nash has simply never had very good linemates. Nash + Richards will end up in a ton of goals. I'm expecting him to get at least 40. He's not overrated.
I'm skeptical. I don't think he plays with mental toughness. I haven't seen anything from him that makes me think he's going to elevate his game on a contender.

I don't blame him for wanting to play for a different team, though. But I bet he'll become a whipping boy for Rangers fans pretty quickly. They're going to miss the guys they traded.

2 Minute Minor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 05:47 PM
  #62
SirPaste
Registered User
 
SirPaste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: STL
Posts: 6,629
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Nash has simply never had very good linemates. Nash + Richards will end up in a ton of goals. I'm expecting him to get at least 40. He's not overrated.
I dont know about 40 goals but I agree with you. Nash is really good, making the switch from CBJ to NYR is like a breath of fresh air for him, I bet he will put up big numbers.

SirPaste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 05:50 PM
  #63
Robb_K
Registered User
 
Robb_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NordHolandNethrlands
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirPaste View Post
I dont know about 40 goals but I agree with you. Nash is really good, making the switch from CBJ to NYR is like a breath of fresh air for him, I bet he will put up big numbers.
I think so, too. He might play with Brad Richards, and their PP should be very potent (Gaborik et al).

Robb_K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 05:50 PM
  #64
rumrokh
I Bleed Blue
 
rumrokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
I'm skeptical. I don't think he plays with mental toughness. I haven't seen anything from him that makes me think he's going to elevate his game on a contender.

I don't blame him for wanting to play for a different team, though. But I bet he'll become a whipping boy for Rangers fans pretty quickly. They're going to miss the guys they traded.
Plus, a significant part of Nash's game revolves around his having the puck on his stick. He's not a sniper with great hockey sense who needs a set-up man to get him the puck. He's a skating scorer who plays strong on transition and around the net. He and Richards or Stepan could develop some great chemistry, but if Nash suddenly sets the league on fire, I'm guessing a lot of powerplay goals, not some dominant even-strength duo. Powerplay goals are just as important as any, sure, but it's not the same thing and isn't really about "linemates" in the same way.

rumrokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 06:27 PM
  #65
Dolph Ziggler
Push ME
 
Dolph Ziggler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 8,381
vCash: 50
People said the same thing when Jeff Carter came to Columbus.

New York had 1 guy score 30+ goals last year and only 2 players north of 60 points. I doubt Rick Nash turns them into an offensive juggernaut

Dolph Ziggler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 06:37 PM
  #66
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 19,776
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inglorious One View Post
People said the same thing when Jeff Carter came to Columbus.

New York had 1 guy score 30+ goals last year and only 2 players north of 60 points. I doubt Rick Nash turns them into an offensive juggernaut
I didn't think Carter would do anything for Nash. Carter is a shooter, and that doesn't help a goal scorer elevate his game.

Whether people like him or not, he is pretty much guaranteed to score 30+ goals every season. Combine that with Richards, Gaborik, and their youth, and they will have a very strong offense.

bleedblue1223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 08:29 PM
  #67
Screw You Rick Nash
🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
 
Screw You Rick Nash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Brooklyn, New NY
Country: United States
Posts: 27,264
vCash: 3000
How many games do you guys think Halak will play? Do you still think it will be split between him and Elliott or do you think it Elliott will play a normal backup job?

__________________
++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<
-]>++++++.>+.+++++++++++++++.>+++++++++.<-.
>-------.<<-----.>----.>.<<+++++++++++.>-------------
-.+++++++++++++.-------.--.+++++++++++++.+.>+.>.

New and improved Hockey Standings
"A jimmie for a jimmie makes the whole world rustled." ó -31-
Screw You Rick Nash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 08:34 PM
  #68
adsfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,969
vCash: 500
Yes. They looked like the best team in the Central last year. Weber, Suter and Nash gone. Detroit aging; just staying pat would increase the separation from all of the other Central teams except Chicago.

adsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 08:41 PM
  #69
SirPaste
Registered User
 
SirPaste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: STL
Posts: 6,629
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
How many games do you guys think Halak will play? Do you still think it will be split between him and Elliott or do you think it Elliott will play a normal backup job?
Halak will get the majority of the starts I would think but you never know with injuries or if Halak is struggling Elliott will likely get more starts, but Halak is the starter.

SirPaste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 09:00 PM
  #70
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 19,776
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
How many games do you guys think Halak will play? Do you still think it will be split between him and Elliott or do you think it Elliott will play a normal backup job?
I'd say 50-55. If Halak or Elliott struggle, there won't be much hesitation to play the other guy though.

bleedblue1223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 04:57 PM
  #71
stlblues9
Registered User
 
stlblues9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,664
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
I'm skeptical. I don't think he plays with mental toughness. I haven't seen anything from him that makes me think he's going to elevate his game on a contender.

I don't blame him for wanting to play for a different team, though. But I bet he'll become a whipping boy for Rangers fans pretty quickly. They're going to miss the guys they traded.
He always plays well for Canada. That could be another part of the reason why he hasn`t cared the past few seasons, he loves playing for Canada in the World Championship.

stlblues9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 10:25 PM
  #72
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
How many games do you guys think Halak will play? Do you still think it will be split between him and Elliott or do you think it Elliott will play a normal backup job?
Nobody beat the other out of a job last year, so I expect it to continue on a relatively even split until one guy starts outplaying the other. It could be either guy. There's no way Hitchcock simply hands Halak more starts because of a slightly higher contract if Elliott is playing better. If they're playing the same, they'll each get a split of starts.

PocketNines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 10:32 PM
  #73
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 7,083
vCash: 714
Back to the original question (are the Blues the best in the Central).

They were last season. But Detroit and Nashville were close, and Chicago probably underachieved (due to a variety of issues including injury).

To date:
Nashville got worse (loss of Suter and other offensive players)
Detroit got worse (loss of Lidstrom)
Chicago (no significant change)
Columbus (got better in my opinion, through the Nash trade, but probably not significantly so)

Blues (maybe got better?)
Subtract Colaiacovo and Arnott. Add nothing on defense so far (less depth than last season as you're moving Cole up and replacing Cole/Huskins with Woywitka.
Cole <=>? Colaiacovo (I'm not sure Cole's yet proven to be the better player, but needs to establish that or the Blues are actually worse on defense)
Woywitka < = >? Cole of last season. I think at best the Blues are about the same on defense, with a bit less depth. Not inspiring. A move is still pending, but will probably be pending into the season.

Subtract Arnott, add Tarasenko. Tarasenko plays wing, Steen moves to center.
Steen > Arnott
Tarasenko probably < Steen at first, but probably equals his production or betters it over a season. But does he match his defensive play? Probably not. This is probably close to an equal swap.

The main improvement the Blues have is the individual progress of their young players entering their prime years. There are a LOT of young Blues players who should be improved with another season of play:
Pietro, Shattenkirk, Oshie, Perron, Berglund. Those are just the ones that are obvious.

In goal, I think we'll see a slight regression from Elliott but hopefully a bit of more consistency from Halak. Its hard to assume they can match their league-best numbers of last season.

2 Minute Minor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 12:30 AM
  #74
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 50
Elliott will probably regress in that it's unlikely after next year he'll own the two greatest single seasons statistically in NHL history.

PocketNines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 05:25 AM
  #75
execwrite
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Peekskill, NY
Posts: 3,478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post

I'll also say that we shouldn't forget that the Blues have a big hole on their roster right now too - 1st pairing LD. Where will the Blues be if they stick with the D they currently have and pairings with the current 6 donít work well? What if Petro goes down with injury and the Blues are left with Shatty, Jacks, Polak, Russell, Cole and Woywitka? or worse if someone else is also injured at the same time? Injuries play a huge role and while things look good on paper, you never know how things are actually going to play out on the ice.
I wonder about that.

Carlo was terrible last year, according to many here. And the Blues got 109 points while he was the top LD for many games.

How hard will his absence be to fill? Cole could be the man.

execwrite is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:05 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.