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PK Subban being shopped ?

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Old
07-22-2012, 08:21 AM
  #476
Montreal Shadow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
I love Subban, but he can not fight well. Actually, he should not fight. Ever. That dance he had with Marchand lat year was embarrassing. I agree with everything else.
Watch it again, aside from the first missed punch, it was a decent tilt. Far from embarrassing as you put it.

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Old
07-22-2012, 09:26 AM
  #477
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Actually, Subban has attempted to get into fights on multiple occasions but was always stopped by refs.
That Marchand fight happened on the third attempt and the refs finally let them go at it

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Old
07-22-2012, 09:40 AM
  #478
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Originally Posted by 8spokesontheB View Post
I guess I just disagree. I think Franzen and a pick is pretty much Subban's value at quality. Player for player I mean, not necessarily as relates to a team's particular needs. You lose me when you start making hypothetical trades involving players superior to Subban for comparison, like Datsyuk, Chara, or Bergeron.

Would you accept Franzen and a pick for Chara? If not, then you should be able to understand why the Habs say "no" as well. I guess you never did that little homework assignment I gave you. If you look at Chara's first two full seasons in the NHL (let's say 2000-2001, 2001-2002, even though those were his 4th and 5th years in the NHL, we can ignore that for now. Keep in mind, those were the 2 first years Chara played a full season, the others were much shorter so I felt they were unfair comparables for Chara) you get an interesting idea as to why Habs fans are so high on Subban.

2000-2001 Chara:
82 games, 2 goals, 7 assists, -27, 157 penalty minutes, 22 minutes TOI per game for the Islanders. Let's call this Chara's first season.

Subban's 1st full season:
77 games, 14 goals, 24 assists, -8, 124 penalty minutes, 22 minutes TOI per game.

2001-2002 Chara:
75 games, 10 goals, 13 assists, +30, 156 penalty minutes, 22 minutes TOI per game.

Subban's second full season:
81 games, 7 goals, 29 assists, +9, 119 penalty minutes, 24 minutes of TOI per game.

If Subban continues to progress, it is quite likely he will equal or surpass Chara as a defender in the NHL. That is why Franzen and a pick, or Caron and a 2nd are laughable offers. Subban is doing in his first 2 seasons in the NHL what it took Chara 5 years to achieve, and Subban has not had the benefit of a Wade Redden as a defence partner nor is Subban on as offensively gifted a team as Chara was on in Ottawa when he finally started to produce offensively.

let's have more fun. Compare Subban to Duncan Keith's first two seasons:

2005-2006 Keith (year 1):
81 games, 9 goals, 12 assists, -11, 79 penalty minutes, 23 minutes of TOI per game, 88 hits 119 blocked shots, -27 giveaway to takeaway ratio.

Subban year 1:
77 games, 14 goals, 24 assists, -8, 124 penalty minutes, 22 minutes TOI per game, 110 hits, 106 blocked shots, -19 giveaway to takeaway ratio.

2006-2007 Keith (year 2):
82 games, 2 goals, 29 assists, 0, 76 penalty minutes, 23 minutes of TOI per game, 78 hits, 148 blocked shots, -19 giveaway to takeaway ratio.

Subban year 2:
81 games, 7 goals, 29 assists, +9, 119 penalty minutes, 24 minutes of TOI per game, 105 hits, 113 blocked shots, -62 giveaway to takeaway ratio.

Again, Subban is very comparable to Keith, don't you think? So, please, when you make an offer for Subban, try and understand where he stands in relation to the elite defencemen in the league at the same time in their development and understand why we equate Subban with those players. Go do the same comparison with Tyler Myers, Brent Seabrook, Chris Pronger, Ryan Suter, Alexander Edler, Dan Boyle, and many other elite defencemen in the NHL...Subban is equal to, or better than, all of them when you compare their first 2 full seasons to Subban's. You can say Chara, Pronger, etc are better than Subban NOW, but try comparing apples to apples, not apples to apple trees. Subban has proven to be far better than anyone could have imagined, and is still improving.

So, I hope you can understand why the Habs do not accept the low ball offers you put forward for Subban.

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Old
07-22-2012, 09:46 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
You're embarassing Habs fans with things like this man. There have been some good proposals in this very thread that didn't involve giving up as much, you should go take a look. And no we're not dealing Subban for a prospect as the main piece, even if he comes with a 1st and 2nd.
I think you're missing his point: Subban is not being shopped. He's not available and the Habs don't have anyone to take his spot with at this time.

So people want to play dumb and keep on thinking they want him? Overpay, big time. At least, I think it was his point.

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07-22-2012, 10:04 AM
  #480
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So many garbage proposals for subban. Do us a favor and save that ****

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07-22-2012, 10:06 AM
  #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Would you accept Franzen and a pick for Chara? If not, then you should be able to understand why the Habs say "no" as well. I guess you never did that little homework assignment I gave you. If you look at Chara's first two full seasons in the NHL (let's say 2000-2001, 2001-2002, even though those were his 4th and 5th years in the NHL, we can ignore that for now. Keep in mind, those were the 2 first years Chara played a full season, the others were much shorter so I felt they were unfair comparables for Chara) you get an interesting idea as to why Habs fans are so high on Subban.

2000-2001 Chara:
82 games, 2 goals, 7 assists, -27, 157 penalty minutes, 22 minutes TOI per game for the Islanders. Let's call this Chara's first season.

Subban's 1st full season:
77 games, 14 goals, 24 assists, -8, 124 penalty minutes, 22 minutes TOI per game.

2001-2002 Chara:
75 games, 10 goals, 13 assists, +30, 156 penalty minutes, 22 minutes TOI per game.

Subban's second full season:
81 games, 7 goals, 29 assists, +9, 119 penalty minutes, 24 minutes of TOI per game.

If Subban continues to progress, it is quite likely he will equal or surpass Chara as a defender in the NHL. That is why Franzen and a pick, or Caron and a 2nd are laughable offers. Subban is doing in his first 2 seasons in the NHL what it took Chara 5 years to achieve, and Subban has not had the benefit of a Wade Redden as a defence partner nor is Subban on as offensively gifted a team as Chara was on in Ottawa when he finally started to produce offensively.

let's have more fun. Compare Subban to Duncan Keith's first two seasons:

2005-2006 Keith (year 1):
81 games, 9 goals, 12 assists, -11, 79 penalty minutes, 23 minutes of TOI per game, 88 hits 119 blocked shots, -27 giveaway to takeaway ratio.

Subban year 1:
77 games, 14 goals, 24 assists, -8, 124 penalty minutes, 22 minutes TOI per game, 110 hits, 106 blocked shots, -19 giveaway to takeaway ratio.

2006-2007 Keith (year 2):
82 games, 2 goals, 29 assists, 0, 76 penalty minutes, 23 minutes of TOI per game, 78 hits, 148 blocked shots, -19 giveaway to takeaway ratio.

Subban year 2:
81 games, 7 goals, 29 assists, +9, 119 penalty minutes, 24 minutes of TOI per game, 105 hits, 113 blocked shots, -62 giveaway to takeaway ratio.

Again, Subban is very comparable to Keith, don't you think? So, please, when you make an offer for Subban, try and understand where he stands in relation to the elite defencemen in the league at the same time in their development and understand why we equate Subban with those players. Go do the same comparison with Tyler Myers, Brent Seabrook, Chris Pronger, Ryan Suter, Alexander Edler, Dan Boyle, and many other elite defencemen in the NHL...Subban is equal to, or better than, all of them when you compare their first 2 full seasons to Subban's. You can say Chara, Pronger, etc are better than Subban NOW, but try comparing apples to apples, not apples to apple trees. Subban has proven to be far better than anyone could have imagined, and is still improving.

So, I hope you can understand why the Habs do not accept the low ball offers you put forward for Subban.
This is some of the worst reasoning I have witnessed. Because Subban had a better first 2 seasons then Chara, that means his career will eventually be better then Charas. Right, there are obviously no other factors that could play in. Subban will clearly be a Norris winner and Captain a team to the cup.

Chara is worth so much more, not because of his first two seasons and projections of what he could become, but because of what he became.

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Old
07-22-2012, 10:16 AM
  #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
If Subban continues to progress, it is quite likely he will equal or surpass Chara as a defender in the NHL. That is why Franzen and a pick, or Caron and a 2nd are laughable offers. Subban is doing in his first 2 seasons in the NHL what it took Chara 5 years to achieve, and Subban has not had the benefit of a Wade Redden as a defence partner nor is Subban on as offensively gifted a team as Chara was on in Ottawa when he finally started to produce offensively.
He'll never be 6'9 250 and the most physically imposing player to ever play in the league. He'll be as good offensively, but defensively he'll never come close to Chara. You're making a fool of yourself when you say things like this. Stop being a homer

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Old
07-22-2012, 10:20 AM
  #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Would you accept Franzen and a pick for Chara? If not, then you should be able to understand why the Habs say "no" as well. I guess you never did that little homework assignment I gave you. If you look at Chara's first two full seasons in the NHL (let's say 2000-2001, 2001-2002, even though those were his 4th and 5th years in the NHL, we can ignore that for now. Keep in mind, those were the 2 first years Chara played a full season, the others were much shorter so I felt they were unfair comparables for Chara) you get an interesting idea as to why Habs fans are so high on Subban.

2000-2001 Chara:
82 games, 2 goals, 7 assists, -27, 157 penalty minutes, 22 minutes TOI per game for the Islanders. Let's call this Chara's first season.

Subban's 1st full season:
77 games, 14 goals, 24 assists, -8, 124 penalty minutes, 22 minutes TOI per game.

2001-2002 Chara:
75 games, 10 goals, 13 assists, +30, 156 penalty minutes, 22 minutes TOI per game.

Subban's second full season:
81 games, 7 goals, 29 assists, +9, 119 penalty minutes, 24 minutes of TOI per game.

If Subban continues to progress, it is quite likely he will equal or surpass Chara as a defender in the NHL. That is why Franzen and a pick, or Caron and a 2nd are laughable offers. Subban is doing in his first 2 seasons in the NHL what it took Chara 5 years to achieve, and Subban has not had the benefit of a Wade Redden as a defence partner nor is Subban on as offensively gifted a team as Chara was on in Ottawa when he finally started to produce offensively.

let's have more fun. Compare Subban to Duncan Keith's first two seasons:

2005-2006 Keith (year 1):
81 games, 9 goals, 12 assists, -11, 79 penalty minutes, 23 minutes of TOI per game, 88 hits 119 blocked shots, -27 giveaway to takeaway ratio.

Subban year 1:
77 games, 14 goals, 24 assists, -8, 124 penalty minutes, 22 minutes TOI per game, 110 hits, 106 blocked shots, -19 giveaway to takeaway ratio.

2006-2007 Keith (year 2):
82 games, 2 goals, 29 assists, 0, 76 penalty minutes, 23 minutes of TOI per game, 78 hits, 148 blocked shots, -19 giveaway to takeaway ratio.

Subban year 2:
81 games, 7 goals, 29 assists, +9, 119 penalty minutes, 24 minutes of TOI per game, 105 hits, 113 blocked shots, -62 giveaway to takeaway ratio.

Again, Subban is very comparable to Keith, don't you think? So, please, when you make an offer for Subban, try and understand where he stands in relation to the elite defencemen in the league at the same time in their development and understand why we equate Subban with those players. Go do the same comparison with Tyler Myers, Brent Seabrook, Chris Pronger, Ryan Suter, Alexander Edler, Dan Boyle, and many other elite defencemen in the NHL...Subban is equal to, or better than, all of them when you compare their first 2 full seasons to Subban's. You can say Chara, Pronger, etc are better than Subban NOW, but try comparing apples to apples, not apples to apple trees. Subban has proven to be far better than anyone could have imagined, and is still improving.

So, I hope you can understand why the Habs do not accept the low ball offers you put forward for Subban.
Comparing Subban to Chara

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Old
07-22-2012, 10:24 AM
  #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Octagon View Post
He'll never be 6'9 250 and the most physically imposing player to ever play in the league. He'll be as good offensively, but defensively he'll never come close to Chara. You're making a fool of yourself when you say things like this. Stop being a homer
Being physical isn't what all defence is about. Its also about being able to read&react and having solid positioning. Just because you can hit doesn't mean you are the best defensive player. Also, saying "He'll never be 6'9 250 and the most physically imposing player to ever play in the league." Well no he won't be 6'9/250.. but saying Chara is the most physically imposing player to ever to play in the NHL... no. There are many tougher, meaner players.

Not saying I agree with the other guy though. Chara is a far comparison.

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Old
07-22-2012, 10:28 AM
  #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Would you accept Franzen and a pick for Chara? If not, then you should be able to understand why the Habs say "no" as well. I guess you never did that little homework assignment I gave you. If you look at Chara's first two full seasons in the NHL (let's say 2000-2001, 2001-2002, even though those were his 4th and 5th years in the NHL, we can ignore that for now. Keep in mind, those were the 2 first years Chara played a full season, the others were much shorter so I felt they were unfair comparables for Chara) you get an interesting idea as to why Habs fans are so high on Subban.

2000-2001 Chara:
82 games, 2 goals, 7 assists, -27, 157 penalty minutes, 22 minutes TOI per game for the Islanders. Let's call this Chara's first season.

Subban's 1st full season:
77 games, 14 goals, 24 assists, -8, 124 penalty minutes, 22 minutes TOI per game.

2001-2002 Chara:
75 games, 10 goals, 13 assists, +30, 156 penalty minutes, 22 minutes TOI per game.

Subban's second full season:
81 games, 7 goals, 29 assists, +9, 119 penalty minutes, 24 minutes of TOI per game.

If Subban continues to progress, it is quite likely he will equal or surpass Chara as a defender in the NHL. That is why Franzen and a pick, or Caron and a 2nd are laughable offers. Subban is doing in his first 2 seasons in the NHL what it took Chara 5 years to achieve, and Subban has not had the benefit of a Wade Redden as a defence partner nor is Subban on as offensively gifted a team as Chara was on in Ottawa when he finally started to produce offensively.

let's have more fun. Compare Subban to Duncan Keith's first two seasons:

2005-2006 Keith (year 1):
81 games, 9 goals, 12 assists, -11, 79 penalty minutes, 23 minutes of TOI per game, 88 hits 119 blocked shots, -27 giveaway to takeaway ratio.

Subban year 1:
77 games, 14 goals, 24 assists, -8, 124 penalty minutes, 22 minutes TOI per game, 110 hits, 106 blocked shots, -19 giveaway to takeaway ratio.

2006-2007 Keith (year 2):
82 games, 2 goals, 29 assists, 0, 76 penalty minutes, 23 minutes of TOI per game, 78 hits, 148 blocked shots, -19 giveaway to takeaway ratio.

Subban year 2:
81 games, 7 goals, 29 assists, +9, 119 penalty minutes, 24 minutes of TOI per game, 105 hits, 113 blocked shots, -62 giveaway to takeaway ratio.

Again, Subban is very comparable to Keith, don't you think? So, please, when you make an offer for Subban, try and understand where he stands in relation to the elite defencemen in the league at the same time in their development and understand why we equate Subban with those players. Go do the same comparison with Tyler Myers, Brent Seabrook, Chris Pronger, Ryan Suter, Alexander Edler, Dan Boyle, and many other elite defencemen in the NHL...Subban is equal to, or better than, all of them when you compare their first 2 full seasons to Subban's. You can say Chara, Pronger, etc are better than Subban NOW, but try comparing apples to apples, not apples to apple trees. Subban has proven to be far better than anyone could have imagined, and is still improving.

So, I hope you can understand why the Habs do not accept the low ball offers you put forward for Subban.
Gardiner had 7 goals and 23 assists his first season, does that mean he'll also be better than Chara and Keith?

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Old
07-22-2012, 11:00 AM
  #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Price2Pleks View Post
Being physical isn't what all defence is about. Its also about being able to read&react and having solid positioning. Just because you can hit doesn't mean you are the best defensive player. Also, saying "He'll never be 6'9 250 and the most physically imposing player to ever play in the league." Well no he won't be 6'9/250.. but saying Chara is the most physically imposing player to ever to play in the NHL... no. There are many tougher, meaner players.

Not saying I agree with the other guy though. Chara is a far comparison.
Name them. Sure, there are guys who are better fighters...but name one defenseman who is as big, strong, and mean as Chara? As a Flyers fan I've watched his entire career and he's an absolute freak. His reach alone makes him a better defensive defenseman than Subban will ever be. No one is afraid to go into the corners against PK, but players clearly alter their course when Chara is around. I understand you may not like him because he almost killed Max P, but don't deny the obvious.

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Old
07-22-2012, 11:58 AM
  #487
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post

So, I hope you can understand why the Habs do not accept the low ball offers you put forward for Subban.
I don't know what you're talking about, "lowball". I feel that most offers here have been decent for Subban, not all of course. Pernell is a good #2, and a GREAT 3 or 4.....He's #1 on your team because of lack, not because that's what he is. I love Pernell, I'd take him in a heartbeat....but this notion that some team would have to "overpay" for him is crazy. You think because you like a player other teams would have to overpay? The only teams that would 'overpay' - that is, give you more than a #2 d in return, or a 2nd line player - is a team that needs to reach the cap, or a desperate team that thinks his powerplay goals put them in contention.


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07-22-2012, 12:41 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by 8spokesontheB View Post
I don't know what you're talking about, "lowball". I feel that most offers here have been decent for Subban, not all of course. Pernell is a good #2, and a GREAT 3 or 4.....He's #1 on your team because of lack, not because that's what he is. I love Pernell, I'd take him in a heartbeat....but this notion that some team would have to "overpay" for him is crazy. You think because you like a player other teams would have to overpay? The only teams that would 'overpay' - that is, give you more than a #2 d in return, or a 2nd line player - is a team that needs to reach the cap, or a desperate team that thinks his powerplay goals put them in contention.
Again, the notion with teams overpaying has nothing to do with his value as much as the fact that:
  1. In spite of the assumptions by the OP, Subban is NOT being shopped, as his agent is meeting with Marc Bergevin to close a deal this week; and
  2. in spite of having some good young prospects on defense, the Habs don't have anyone currently ready to take his minutes and his role on the team.
Subban's value to the Habs goes well beyond what any team would be willing to offer, for the reasons mentioned above, thus making all of this talk redundant and useless.

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07-22-2012, 12:50 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
If Subban continues to progress, it is quite likely he will equal or surpass Chara as a defender in the NHL.
Oh good lord.

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07-22-2012, 01:25 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by 8spokesontheB View Post
I don't know what you're talking about, "lowball". I feel that most offers here have been decent for Subban, not all of course. Pernell is a good #2, and a GREAT 3 or 4.....He's #1 on your team because of lack, not because that's what he is. I love Pernell, I'd take him in a heartbeat....but this notion that some team would have to "overpay" for him is crazy. You think because you like a player other teams would have to overpay? The only teams that would 'overpay' - that is, give you more than a #2 d in return, or a 2nd line player - is a team that needs to reach the cap, or a desperate team that thinks his powerplay goals put them in contention.

Subban isn't even great on the PP. Just so you know, he's not a true PP QB like Markov, Kaberle or whoever. He's better 5 on 5 funny enough.

As for the rest, someone who have to overpay because he is not available. The reality is, anyone can make a 'fair' deal for another player, but fair based on what? Value? Sure, but what about needs? Beyond that, why trade a fan favourite just because?

I think you're overcomplicating the obvious. For example, I think Beaulieu+ is fair value for hamilton, are you interested? I'd assume no. Most wouldn't be because it doesn't help the bruins and why would trading subban for fair packages help the habs long term?

I'm not sure what the point of the video is either. Bergeron had something to say to Subban, Subban laughed in his face and bergeron pushed him after being annoyed. Subban fell. Okay?

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07-22-2012, 01:39 PM
  #491
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????? If Subban continues to progress, it is quite likely he will equal or surpass Chara as a defender in the NHL. ?????



Subban will NEVER come close to being Chara!
Chara is not human he comes from another planet where he eats people and trains 24/7.
Chara didn't even know what hockey was when he came to the planet all he knew was that he was an intense athlete who is a "winner". NHL GMs gave him a chance to learn how to skate and play the sport. Over time he developed into the player we all watch today. I hear every offseason he returns to his home planet to train and eat more humans.

PK is a talented kid and will one day be a great defenseman. With out the training and eating of humans he will never be in the same league as Chara. Points are all fine and dandy but being a monster in skates is what sets Chara apart from everyone else.

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07-22-2012, 01:46 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by Btown View Post
????? If Subban continues to progress, it is quite likely he will equal or surpass Chara as a defender in the NHL. ?????



Subban will NEVER come close to being Chara!
Chara is not human he comes from another planet where he eats people and trains 24/7.
Chara didn't even know what hockey was when he came to the planet all he knew was that he was an intense athlete who is a "winner". NHL GMs gave him a chance to learn how to skate and play the sport. Over time he developed into the player we all watch today. I hear every offseason he returns to his home planet to train and eat more humans.

PK is a talented kid and will one day be a great defenseman. With out the training and eating of humans he will never be in the same league as Chara. Points are all fine and dandy but being a monster in skates is what sets Chara apart from everyone else.
Expecting Subban to be as good as a supreme alien lifeform. #UnrealisticExpectations.

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07-22-2012, 02:53 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
This is some of the worst reasoning I have witnessed. Because Subban had a better first 2 seasons then Chara, that means his career will eventually be better then Charas. Right, there are obviously no other factors that could play in. Subban will clearly be a Norris winner and Captain a team to the cup.

Chara is worth so much more, not because of his first two seasons and projections of what he could become, but because of what he became.
You might want to read the part you bolded over again. I stated "IF" Subban continues to progress, then he will "likely" equal or surpass Chara. You also help my point by saying Chara s so much more valuable today because of what he has become. All I am saying is that Suban is already playing like a #1 defenceman in just his second year in the league, is already putting together seasons comparable to those of other Norris Trophy winners when they first entered the league, and is still improving. Nothing you stated counters what I wrote.

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07-22-2012, 03:03 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by Dr. Octagon View Post
He'll never be 6'9 250 and the most physically imposing player to ever play in the league. He'll be as good offensively, but defensively he'll never come close to Chara. You're making a fool of yourself when you say things like this. Stop being a homer
You are right, Subban will never be 6'9" and 250 pounds. He will never be as physically imposing as Chara. I was unaware those were the only requirements to become a Norris Trophy winner. Why hasn't Chara won the Norris his whole career based on your logic? Could it be there are other factors that weigh in the determination of. Great defender other than being 6'9" and 250 pounds? You might not like it, but Subban can become every bit as good a defenceman as Chara, just in a different way. Duncan Keith is not as big as Chara, nor was Lidstrom. They managed to in a Norris Trophy, is that my homerism? Actually, most Norris Trophy winners were not close to Chara's size, we're they unworthy if the Norris, too? There is more to being a great defenceman than size, and yes, I believe Subban can be a Noris and Cup winning defender in this league. Not sure how that makes me a homer, but hey, enjoy your opinion.

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07-22-2012, 03:07 PM
  #495
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07-22-2012, 03:11 PM
  #496
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
You might want to read the part you bolded over again. I stated "IF" Subban continues to progress, then he will "likely" equal or surpass Chara. You also help my point by saying Chara s so much more valuable today because of what he has become. All I am saying is that Suban is already playing like a #1 defenceman in just his second year in the league, is already putting together seasons comparable to those of other Norris Trophy winners when they first entered the league, and is still improving. Nothing you stated counters what I wrote.
He isn't likely to reach Chara's level even if he continues to progress. Can't say it's impossible, because you never know (nobody expected Chara to become this good), but it's not likely at all. He will be a very good D, most likely a star, and maybe a Norris contender...and that's where the IF comes into play...

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07-22-2012, 03:12 PM
  #497
Drydenwasthebest
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Originally Posted by Peasy View Post
Gardiner had 7 goals and 23 assists his first season, does that mean he'll also be better than Chara and Keith?
It is possible IF he continues to develop, no? Why is it so hard to look at great players humble beginnings and use those as comparables for guys showing potential already? If Gardiner/Subban gets better each successive season, like Keith and Chara and many other superstars did, why couldn't they become equal to or greater than those great players? Will there never be a defenceman to ever surpass Chara or Keith ever again? I simply think that Subban, in his first two seasons has shown as much or more than Keith, Chara, and other great defenders did in their first two seasons. As such, due to that potential, I would not want the Habs to trade Subban for Franzen and a pick, or Caron and a 2nd.

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07-22-2012, 03:17 PM
  #498
8spokesontheB
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Subban isn't even great on the PP. Just so you know, he's not a true PP QB like Markov, Kaberle or whoever. He's better 5 on 5 funny enough.
He had 7 goals last year. 5 on the powerplay.

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07-22-2012, 03:22 PM
  #499
Drydenwasthebest
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Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
He isn't likely to reach Chara's level even if he continues to progress. Can't say it's impossible, because you never know (nobody expected Chara to become this good), but it's not likely at all. He will be a very good D, most likely a star, and maybe a Norris contender...and that's where the IF comes into play...
Exactly. Nobody thought Chara would become the star he became. He needed five seasons in the NHL to start becoming what he is today. Subban will never be as imposing as Chara, but he can become as good. Heck, like I have stated throughout, Chara's first four seasons were very unimpressive and mediocre, but he was given time to develop. Habs fans need to be patient with Subban and we may well be rewarded with our own Norris winning Captain with a Cup to his name.

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07-22-2012, 03:26 PM
  #500
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Originally Posted by 8spokesontheB View Post
He had 7 goals last year. 5 on the powerplay.
He was the designated shooter, not PP QB. He also missed far more often than not...lol. It s why he needs time to develop. His aim, maturity, and skill will probably improve over time. I would hate to see him in any other team's jersey because he will be great. His defence has gotten better, now he needs to work on his aim more.

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