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Flyers sign Shea Weber to 14-year offer sheet ($7.857M Cap Hit) (Pt VII)

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07-22-2012, 11:48 AM
  #76
Frodo Baggins
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Originally Posted by stazza18 View Post
Am I the only one who likes Voracek, especially with JVR now gone? (Not saying I wouldn't trade him but the way he is spoken about by some is like a throw in)
I absolutely love Voracek. He just needs to work on his shot. Awesome playmaker though. I wouldn't hesitate to trade him only if it helped guarantee weber or a trade for bobby ryan

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07-22-2012, 11:48 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by wiseonewillis View Post
Nah, substitute read for the rights to Voracek. Read is extremely inexpensive. The predators need to get to the cap floor. Flyers need to stay awsy from the ceiling. Meaning they'd keep read and give away Voracek most likely.
I'm just telling you what the deal is going to be. The Flyers are not trading Read, Meszaros, Bourdon for "Weber".... they are trading them for "two 1st round picks" and to help the Predators fill some roster slots.

People need to understand the Predators can't match and now need to make a hockey deal. Weber is a goner. They will take possession of four 1st round picks and use 2 of them to make a hockey trade. Read, Meszaros and Gustafsson for two 1st rounders is a good hockey trade.

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07-22-2012, 11:50 AM
  #78
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The flyers(like every other team) are allowed to go over the cap by 10%. Once schenn goes down to the AHL for one game, his cap hit gets lowered to 1.75 from around 3.7mil.

Pronger can go on LTIR and there goes close to 5 mil, then they have the option to waive shelley and that would be another 1.1 million down.

The flyers don't need to trade as much salary as some people think. They could add weber and still be able to keep Voracek at a decent contract. Thats only IF nash doesn't demand other players back but the flyers are in the drivers seat all things considered in this deal

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07-22-2012, 11:50 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
I'm just telling you what the deal is going to be. The Flyers are not trading Read, Meszaros, Bourdon for "Weber".... they are trading them for "two 1st round picks" and to help the Predators fill some roster slots.

People need to understand the Predators can't match and now need to make a hockey deal. Weber is a goner. They will take possession of four 1st round picks and use 2 of them to make a hockey trade. Read, Meszaros and Gustafsson for two 1st rounders is a good hockey trade.
Thinking about it, if i've got two 20-30 picks that turn out to be as good as Read and Meszaros then i'm very happy with those picks. No need to add Gus too.

Picks are over-rated on here.

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07-22-2012, 11:51 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
I'm just telling you what the deal is going to be. The Flyers are not trading Read, Meszaros, Bourdon for "Weber".... they are trading them for "two 1st round picks" and to help the Predators fill some roster slots.

People need to understand the Predators can't match and now need to make a hockey deal. Weber is a goner. They will take possession of four 1st round picks and use 2 of them to make a hockey trade. Read, Meszaros and Gustafsson for two 1st rounders is a good hockey trade.
Voracek, Mez and Gus would be better for them. They need to get to the cap floor and them signing Voracek would be a better start to reach that limit.. Plus he is younger and more skilled than Read.

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07-22-2012, 11:52 AM
  #81
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No matter how this plays out, the Predators are f&*(ed....

They match:

- They are on the hook for an incredible amount of upfront bonus cash.

- They may have a disgruntled Captain that they can't trade for at least a year and shouldn't trade for at least 2-3 years due to all the cash they will be paying him.

- They still have to spend money to fill out their roster; this season and even more so next season. Will be tough to do with so much payroll going to a single player.

- Because of the above point, they will probably not be able to go out and offer money to any other quality UFAs for a few years.

- If there is a lockout, their financial situation would go from ugly to downright dire.

They don't match:

- They risk sending a message to their fanbase (and the rest of the NHL) that they all the talk about spending money was just that...talk. Even though people who have been studying this issue knows that offering large contracts is not the issue, it's the upfront cash involved....but the casual fan will probably not comprehend this.

- They will most likely be faced with an incredible re-building effort, which could put a damper in continuing to build their fanbase.

- They will probably no longer be a playoff team in the near future, which further erodes their financial position.

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07-22-2012, 11:53 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
What does 'adequate trade' equal?

They weren't getting Schenn or Couturier..

And you don't waste 27m in one season to trade the player away.
.
Would it not be possible to find a trading partner to trade for Weber next and include some cash to offset the signing bonus?

I can probably think of a few teams that have the resources to trade with Nashville for Weber next year for players and cash and wouldn't mind tossing in a little green to have Weber locked up at a decent hit for the next century.

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07-22-2012, 11:54 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mondello View Post
Would it not be possible to find a trading partner to trade for Weber next and including some cash to offset the signing bonus?

I can probably think of a few teams that have the resources to trade with Nashville for Weber next year for players and cash and wouldn't mind tossing in a little green to have Weber locked up at a decent hit for the next century.
$$$ can't be used in a trade IIRC.

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07-22-2012, 11:54 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
If Weber is gone, Nashville will lose more than 27 million dollars next year. Ticket sales, merchandise, everything. They need Weber.
Not really. Weber is an elite defenseman but he doesn't put butts in the seats to the level that an offensive star would. Defenseman aren't really marketable unless they are elite offensive defenseman. I don't think their franchise will collapse. I live in Nashville and the rabid hockey fans are loyal to their team. Its time for the Preds to rebuild IMO. They will start drafting more talented forwards. They need that marketable forward.

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07-22-2012, 11:55 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
Can't see Nashville having interest in Gustafsson, they have plenty of young defenseman with potential they can give those minutes to.
Nashville won't be done dealing. They are taking Gustafsson because his "value". He is one of the Flyers best prospects and can either be re-packaged in a trade or makes one of the Preds D prospests expendable.

David Poile will be making a large amount of follow-up moves here. He's trying to "collect value" right now. Matt Read scored more than 20 goals as a rookie and comes with a very low cap hit (under a million) for the next couple of years..... he is a valuable asset to have even if re-traded in a larger package. Meszaros is the one big piece they will keep. He's a veteran top-4 defenseman who is still young. He will help them a lot right away and is better than what the people here who dismiss him think.

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07-22-2012, 11:55 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by stazza18 View Post
Am I the only one who likes Voracek, especially with JVR now gone? (Not saying I wouldn't trade him but the way he is spoken about by some is like a throw in)
I don't think anyone's treating him as a throw-in...he's generally listed as the first, and, by implication, most important asset going the other way...

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07-22-2012, 11:57 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Mondello View Post
Would it not be possible to find a trading partner to trade for Weber next and include some cash to offset the signing bonus?
No. It's against NHL/CBA regulations. Cash cannot be traded.

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07-22-2012, 11:58 AM
  #88
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How do we know they weren't doing both?
We don't. But going on the "we will match any offer" promise wouldn't it make sense that they were talking extension exclusively and not even bothering with trade talks at all? Add the fact that the player was taking 3 day visits to other teams, and it sounds like they had no desire to even sign him, let alone match a poison pill OS.

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07-22-2012, 11:59 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mondello View Post
Would it not be possible to find a trading partner to trade for Weber next and include some cash to offset the signing bonus?

I can probably think of a few teams that have the resources to trade with Nashville for Weber next year for players and cash and wouldn't mind tossing in a little green to have Weber locked up at a decent hit for the next century.
I don't think you can trade cash in the NHL.

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07-22-2012, 11:59 AM
  #90
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My bet is Poille is working on a trade for a D to play with Weber, making it worth it to match and keep contending

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07-22-2012, 12:01 PM
  #91
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you dont think Van and det amongst others wouldnt trade for a signed weber next year?


the key isnt if weber isnt happy but does matching the offer paying the heavily frontloaded salary for one year outweigh what they (nas mgt) think they can get for a signedweber


flipside is what is holgrem willing to ante up to get one of the top dmen in the league....esp with a thin dcorp( no carle no pronger)................note thin if you dont get Weber

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07-22-2012, 12:02 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
If Weber is gone, Nashville will lose more than 27 million dollars next year. Ticket sales, merchandise, everything. They need Weber.
No they won't. This is insanity.

All of the Weber jerseys are sold. It's not like they are "adding" a player, they are "retaining".... COMPLETE difference.

The Predators will end up icing a fairly competitive team next year (which won't be much worse than if they kept Weber). But not matching and taking the assets with give them flexibility to spend on some emerging UFAs and also resign their own when they need to be extended. They are not matching the Weber deal because it would cripple them.

The Predators lose money each year even with Weber (and Suter) and the only chance they have to make money or lose little is if they WIN. David Poile is going to re-tweak his team to WIN long-term and it will be WITHOUT Ryan Suter and Shea Weber.

Losing big players happens to a bunch of small market teams in sports. The Blue Jays didn't fold when they traded Roy Halladay for prospects. It's the business-end of pro sports. Poile has proven he can draft very well. The Predators will be fine.

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07-22-2012, 12:04 PM
  #93
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My bet is Poille is working on a trade for a D to play with Weber, making it worth it to match and keep contending
Do you also bet on the Easter Bunny really showing up on Easter?

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07-22-2012, 12:05 PM
  #94
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My bet is Poille is working on a trade for a D to play with Weber, making it worth it to match and keep contending
Doubtful.

They're either working on getting the money together or extracting a better return than 4 1st from the Flyers at this point.

They surely have assessed the situation by now and understand exactly what they can and cannot do, but now they're trying to make the situation work out as best they can before they announce anything.

It's still 50/50 on a match from my perspective. While they know what they want to do at this point, there's a lot of operational elements related to either side of the decision that likely means we don't see an announcement before tomorrow afternoon and, more likely, Wednesday afternoon. At least the wait is more than half over now.

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07-22-2012, 12:10 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
The Predators will end up icing a fairly competitive team next year (which won't be much worse than if they kept Weber). But not matching and taking the assets with give them flexibility to spend on some emerging UFAs and also resign their own when they need to be extended. They are not matching the Weber deal because it would cripple them.

The Predators lose money each year even with Weber (and Suter) and the only chance they have to make money or lose little is if they WIN. David Poile is going to re-tweak his team to WIN long-term and it will be WITHOUT Ryan Suter and Shea Weber.

Losing big players happens to a bunch of small market teams in sports. The Blue Jays didn't fold when they traded Roy Halladay for prospects. It's the business-end of pro sports. Poile has proven he can draft very well. The Predators will be fine.
Agree with most of what you said...however, losing BOTH Weber and Suter probably will make "icing a fairly competitive team" pretty tough to do.

I also agree that, long term, it makes sense for Poile to walk away from this deal, take the picks, and begin rebuilding....but it will also probably run the risk of turning off the "casual" fanbase and erase any goodwill this team as earned over the past year with their playoff run and all.

IMO, what makes this whole situation worse was that Poile was quoted as saying he would match any offersheet for Weber...that will come back to haunt him big time in terms of PR if he elects to not match. Never should've said that.

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07-22-2012, 12:12 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyforhockey View Post
you dont think Van and det amongst others wouldnt trade for a signed weber next year?


the key isnt if weber isnt happy but does matching the offer paying the heavily frontloaded salary for one year outweigh what they (nas mgt) think they can get for a signedweber


flipside is what is holgrem willing to ante up to get one of the top dmen in the league....esp with a thin dcorp( no carle no pronger)................note thin if you dont get Weber
I think many teams would. The question is why would Nashville move him after paying $27M up front and having him on a bargain career deal? They simply wouldn't. I know other teams out there want to find ways that their team can get Weber, but it makes absolutely no sense for Nashville to eat the awful portion of Weber's contract, then trade the bargain portion to someone else.

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07-22-2012, 12:13 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by crazyforhockey View Post
you dont think Van and det amongst others wouldnt trade for a signed weber next year?
Since the idea of Nashville matching then trading him after 1 year continues to be thrown out there, it would be interesting to hear what people who have that opinion think their team (Van, Det, NYR, Pit, etc, whoever you are a fan of) would give up in trade next summer for Weber. I personally don't think this is even under consideration for Nashville

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07-22-2012, 12:14 PM
  #98
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I think Nashville can not accept the package mentioned above. First even losing Weber Nashville has a ton of Defenseman. Nash needs forwards. As far as Read goes a very nice complimentary piece but not the cornerstone of a deal for Weber. I believe Philly has to include one of Schenn or Couturier. Think the deal would have to be 2 #1's, Schenn and Simmons at the very least. My thoughts are that Nashville matches though.

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07-22-2012, 12:16 PM
  #99
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There is no question that Poile has blundered BIG TIME over the past year. From the Weber arbitration fiasco to letting Suter and Weber get to this point without locking them up or trading them and then getting out manuevered by Holmgren with this offersheet.

Not too impressive, IMO.....

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07-22-2012, 12:17 PM
  #100
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$$$ can't be used in a trade IIRC.
We will see what the new CBA says, I know a few GM's want it back in as well as being able to trade cap space, Burke being one of them. Not sure if it will pass, but their reasoning is it makes trades easier.

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