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Offer Sheet Matched. Weber signed to Nashville for 14 years

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Old
07-22-2012, 01:41 PM
  #201
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Combining option H with an announcement that we are matching the deal would send a huge message to not only our fans but the entire NHL. It's possible....right now though, all options are possible.

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07-22-2012, 01:41 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Smashville615 View Post
And i gave you the answer on the real problem. You resonded to my post about Poile and wanted to say something about an offer sheet that frankly has nothing to do with Poile other than the fact that he is the one that got the offer sheet slapped in are face from philly in the first place.
It was not signed immediatly because smart people read a contract that is coming from another party. Will they match? Who knows but facts are facts. We would not be in this position if not for the mistakes of David Poile.
What mistakes?

Are you so aware of GM's job abilities, resources and responsibilities that you can point out what mistakes DP has made?

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07-22-2012, 01:42 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by deftones1986 View Post
I have a question for Predators fans.

What does all of this say about Weber wanting to play for your team?

Obviously he has a 50/50 chance of staying or going, but since you all know him better than I do, and you know all about his arbitration, playing along side Suter only to see him leave, and all of this (seemingly) bad blood that has been built.

Do you really want him playing for you or do you just want to stick it to Philly for being a bully?

It just seems to me IMO, that he really believes the Predators don't want to make that huge leap into trying to be a big market team, he waited patiently for a new deal, he got upset that his D partner left, all while the ownership seemed to be waiting around, trying to get unrealistic trades to happen with a guy who (from the other teams perspective) could just be a one year rental.

And you can't blame a guy who lives and breathes hockey, to try and win a championship, and go to a team with his old roomate (L. Schenn) a world class talent (Giroux) and a huge SPORTS market, with a legitimate chance of winning a cup.

And you don't think he consulted with his family first or was this in your eyes as fans just a decision based on him being angry on a no deal?

I'm just trying to get a grasp on how you guys really value Weber. If it where me, I'd say let him go as hard as it may be, put some hope in Rinne, leave it up to your management to right all their wrong doings with player-owner relationships (which seem to me to be the domino effect of all of this).

There is just something odd about Suter leaving, and now Weber signs this deal with Philly, leaving Rinne in the dust, something has to be screwed up between players respect for the clubs ownership. And please don't confuse that with the players respect for their fans, but this is a business, and if the players feel like the business aspects are going nowhere as far as the teams future sucess, and trying to build Nashville up to a level of Detroit,Pittsburgh, and other teams with great winning reputations, I wouldn't want to play there either unless I knew I was making great money, hence Weber signing the offer sheet to at least comfort him with playing in Nashville if it may be.

Of course Weber has to admire the Predators faithful, but a teams ownership also has a lot to do with a players intentions to stay right?

And as far as your GM and ownership, they should strongly look at this whole disaster as a wake-up call to rethink their intentions as to what it takes to build a championship team.

I may not be 100% right about all of this because I am just an outsider looking in but something other than what's on the surface seems fishy to me.

These are honest questions and viewpoints here and I'd really like to hear Predators fans thoughts.

I would hope Weber would understand the difference in Nashville and the clubs you mentioned. Weber will either want to build something in Nashville or run to a ready made been their done that many times Detroit etc.
Personally i would rather build something and be a first not 3rd and 4ths etc

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07-22-2012, 01:44 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by tserberis View Post
What mistakes?

Are you so aware of GM's job abilities, resources and responsibilities that you can point out what mistakes DP has made?
I am aware. I am not going to repeat myself so if you want an answer to your ? you can scroll through the thread.

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07-22-2012, 02:25 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by deftones1986 View Post
I have a question for Predators fans.

What does all of this say about Weber wanting to play for your team?

Do you really want him playing for you or do you just want to stick it to Philly for being a bully?

I'm just trying to get a grasp on how you guys really value Weber.

It seems clear that Weber would rather play for Philly, but he also must not mind the possibility of playing for Nashville as well since he knows we might match this offer sheet. I say he would rather play for Philly because: he didn't sign an extension with us either last summer or before all these shenanigans started, the offer sheet is designed to be extremely difficult for us to match, and statements from his agent. I do think if we match it could be a statement to him that we're willing to spend big dollars...but if he still isn't satisfied with Nashville he can always demand a trade in a year.

Of course we want him playing for us; he's arguably the best defenseman in the game. I think one thing most Predators fans can agree on is: none of us want to lose him for 4 first-round picks. If we are going to lose him, we want it to be for a package of NHL-ready players (whether it comes in the form of a "gentleman's agreement" with Philly if we don't match or via trade with another team in a year if we do).

We value Weber WAY more than 4 low first-round draft picks, that's for sure.

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07-22-2012, 03:07 PM
  #206
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So. . .as of June 30, Poile was perfectly fine with offering big, long-term deals to both Suter and Weber. Both were going to have cap hits somewhere around $7.8 million. That was a given.
i don't believe this to be true at all. Poile lowballed Weber last year offering him less than 5m. contract talks broke down again this year because Poile and the Preds would not give Weber the money and term that he wanted. Nashville did not like any length over 10 years, and they did not like the high cap hit of 7.8m.

if money/term wasn't an issue, why would they insult Weber last year duing arbitration with such a ridiculously lowball offer?

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07-22-2012, 03:09 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by ILikeItILoveIt View Post
Philly is manipuling the rules to crush a small market team.
That's exactly it and I know you guys might hate my club for getting Suter but as a Minnesota sports fan, we bond in this way. Minnesota is not a big market state at all and all our clubs are typically in this same boat.

I want you guys to match and NOT allow Philly to do this! I'm pulling for you!

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07-22-2012, 03:12 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Smashville615 View Post
I would hope Weber would understand the difference in Nashville and the clubs you mentioned. Weber will either want to build something in Nashville or run to a ready made been their done that many times Detroit etc.
Personally i would rather build something and be a first not 3rd and 4ths etc
This is the part that amazes me... you have the opportunity to be THE MAN (or men) in the history of a franchise. The early Flyers, Islanders, Blues players that are the stuff of legend didn't run off to an original six. I want those types of players here. Maybe a new era of Lebron is the reality in sports today.

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Old
07-22-2012, 03:14 PM
  #209
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okay, league should void it but they won't. Moving on to reality, the Preds have to match because they've already publicly said they were looking to sign Parise and Suter and Weber. As stated by other posters, even with no major bonuses, they would be spending a similar amount of cash had they executed the "3-fer". Spending it just on one player upfront is scary, and insurance is an issue, but given the unique credibility issue the Preds have to live up to (don't match and we're a lowly farm team who won't spend the big bucks), we have no choice.

Working out a trade is the next best option. Doesn't wipe away the credibility issue but gives us a chance to turn lemons into lemonade.

The full 7 days is vintage Poile. Nothing but a better outcome can come from taking the full 7. Even if you knew Day 1 you were going to match, waiting and telling Philly you are going to match and seeing if they budge on Couts is worth the drama. Also, the notoriety the franchise is receiving ain't all bad. We will be the sentimental choice next year, regardless of the outcome. Plays right into our perennial underdog, litte-franchise-that-could MO.

If we match, we'll make up the money by relying on our youth (Ellis, Josi, Blum, etc) to replace Suter by-committee, and no big money forward this year. We'll hope Smith, Wilson, etc take the next step.

For those frustrated with the last 5 days, there are only 2 days left. This does not rise to the level of the Summer we almost lost the team, but it's close.

In a perverse sort of way, this is the very thing that makes being a Pred fan more of a religion than a idle sports following. Adversity draws people together. The collective struggle creates an identity like no other. We've had more than our share, and have never been stronger. Who knows, maybe whatever this thing is and however it ends, its meant to be. It is who we are. WE ARE PRED FANS.

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07-22-2012, 03:28 PM
  #210
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You should e-mail Henry and Cogen and tell them that!



I think you misunderstood my point. Of course $52M spread over 4 years isn't helping us. I was saying that I think the rule was created with the idea that maybe some teams can't afford say, a $13M bonus in one year...so they can spread it over a few years, making such a bonus attainable to small-market teams like us. It obviously wasn't intended to spread ludicrous amounts of money over several years like Weber's offer sheet does.
2 things,

Sorry, did not mean to snap at you, and sorry for misunderstanding. I see what you meant however, I think this is clearly a case of the rule being taken advantage of. Philly knew we would struggle to pay out $13million in bonuses over 4 years otherwise they wouldn't have put this offersheet in front of him to sign. A contract with $58 million in real salary and $52 million in bonus money is absolutely egregious.

Also, I don't think Henry and Cogan are automatically going to say, he this guy will become a partial ticket holder, we HAVE to match now or we might miss out on his extra $1,000 of revenue

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Old
07-22-2012, 03:32 PM
  #211
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i don't believe this to be true at all. Poile lowballed Weber last year offering him less than 5m. contract talks broke down again this year because Poile and the Preds would not give Weber the money and term that he wanted. Nashville did not like any length over 10 years, and they did not like the high cap hit of 7.8m.

if money/term wasn't an issue, why would they insult Weber last year duing arbitration with such a ridiculously lowball offer?
Once again, Weber was never offered $5m. Everyone who throws out the arbitration figure is ignoring the context. It isn't an offer. It is a neogitation starting point. Teams always offer a low figure while the player and his rep will offer high figure. It is how arbitration works. It has been discussed ad nauseam since last summer.

Weber wasn't signed last year because Poile didn't want to give him a 3 year deal. He wanted a longer deal. Weber did not.

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07-22-2012, 03:38 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by bauer View Post
i don't believe this to be true at all. Poile lowballed Weber last year offering him less than 5m. contract talks broke down again this year because Poile and the Preds would not give Weber the money and term that he wanted. Nashville did not like any length over 10 years, and they did not like the high cap hit of 7.8m.

if money/term wasn't an issue, why would they insult Weber last year duing arbitration with such a ridiculously lowball offer?
Once the situation went into arbitration, the team attempts to get the lowest ruling possible out of the proceedings. Poile did not lowball Weber in contract negotations, it was clear he had offered deals of $7M+ per year for terms of 5+ years, but was turned down by Weber's camp, who wanted a shorter term (3 year-type deal). This myth that Poile lowballed Weber in contract talks is grossly inaccurate. The only low offer Poile made was in his presentation to the arbitrator, when his job was to get the lowest award he could for the team.

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07-22-2012, 03:39 PM
  #213
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i don't believe this to be true at all. Poile lowballed Weber last year offering him less than 5m. contract talks broke down again this year because Poile and the Preds would not give Weber the money and term that he wanted. Nashville did not like any length over 10 years, and they did not like the high cap hit of 7.8m.

if money/term wasn't an issue, why would they insult Weber last year duing arbitration with such a ridiculously lowball offer?
The offer on the table to Weber prior to arbitration was essentially the same as what Rinne signed. The $5mil was only an arbitration tactic. Teams always come in way low in arbitration. Doesn't mean anything. Poile has already stated that his offer for Suter was close to Minny's and he was disappointed he wasn't given an option to match it.

Ownership has been saying they're willing to spend the money for these guys for over a year now.

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07-22-2012, 03:41 PM
  #214
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Once again, Weber was never offered $5m. Everyone who throws out the arbitration figure is ignoring the context. It isn't an offer. It is a neogitation starting point. Teams always offer a low figure while the player and his rep will offer high figure. It is how arbitration works. It has been discussed ad nauseam since last summer.

Weber wasn't signed last year because Poile didn't want to give him a 3 year deal. He wanted a longer deal. Weber did not.
from what i understand in arbitration. each side makes an offer and the arbitrator must choose which side is better. they offered Weber 4.75m, a lowball offer, there was no negotiating involved. it was one or the other. maybe it was a tactic, but i'm sure it upset Weber a bit.

this summer, talks broke down and they couldn't come to an agreement. this has been confirmed by Weber's agent. so Poile didn't want to give him 3 years last year, what's the excuse this year? Weber wanted an extention, a deal 10 years or longer, Poile wanted something closer to 7 years and around 7m. not 14 years and 8m. my point being, the two sides were very far apart. so, if Nashville wasn't okay with Weber's demands before, why would they agree to them now? could've saved them a lot of trouble.

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07-22-2012, 03:45 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by bauer View Post
from what i understand in arbitration. each side makes an offer and the arbitrator must choose which side is better. they offered Weber 4.75m, a lowball offer, there was no negotiating involved. it was one or the other. maybe it was a tactic, but i'm sure it upset Weber a bit.

this summer, talks broke down and they couldn't come to an agreement. this has been confirmed by Weber's agent. so Poile didn't want to give him 3 years last year, what's the excuse this year? Weber wanted an extention, a deal 10 years or longer, Poile wanted something closer to 7 years and around 7m. not 14 years and 8m. my point being, the two sides were very far apart. so, if Nashville wasn't okay with Weber's demands before, why would they agree to them now? could've saved them a lot of trouble.
where did you get the numbers for this years offers I haven't seen them confirmed anywhere...

Poile really wanted Weber to take a cut in pay?

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07-22-2012, 03:50 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by bauer View Post
from what i understand in arbitration. each side makes an offer and the arbitrator must choose which side is better. they offered Weber 4.75m, a lowball offer, there was no negotiating involved. it was one or the other. maybe it was a tactic, but i'm sure it upset Weber a bit.

this summer, talks broke down and they couldn't come to an agreement. this has been confirmed by Weber's agent. so Poile didn't want to give him 3 years last year, what's the excuse this year? Weber wanted an extention, a deal 10 years or longer, Poile wanted something closer to 7 years and around 7m. not 14 years and 8m. my point being, the two sides were very far apart. so, if Nashville wasn't okay with Weber's demands before, why would they agree to them now? could've saved them a lot of trouble.
And Weber's agent put in a number of $8.5 million yet he ended up getting paid $7.5 million. The arbiter can go with either side or meet somewhere between the two, which is what happened. The Preds went low, Weber went high and Weber won.

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07-22-2012, 04:00 PM
  #217
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The problem with taking players to arbitration is the bad feelings that can arise out of them.....My bet is that Weber was none too pleased about Poile using Yandle and Byfuglien as comparible players....no offense to Keith Yandle, a very good defenseman, but nowhere near the player that Shea Weber is. And Dustin Byfuglien? Please. It's because of situations like this that management and players do their best to reach an agreement before the hearing.


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07-22-2012, 04:29 PM
  #218
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The problem with taking players to arbitration is the bad feelings that can arise out of them.....My bet is that Weber was none too pleased about Poile using Yandle and Byfuglien as comparible players....no offense to Keith Yandle, a very good defenseman, but nowhere near the player that Shea Weber is. And Dustin Byfuglien? Please. It's because of situations like this that management and players do their best to reach an agreement before the hearing.
Nice to see other people know and understand the situation at hand. You simply do not take the captain and star player to arbitration, period. If Weber did not want to sign then he should of gotten traded. Nashville and its ?able funding should not be doing it any other way. Unless of coarse you are comfortable with paying what you are going to have to to get him now or except 4 late first round draft picks.

The way they signed Peka is how Nashville needs to work. If it does not work out that way actually get something for your investment/ Dont look like the laughing stock of the league and get 5 cents on the dollar. Simple business.

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07-22-2012, 04:32 PM
  #219
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And Weber's agent put in a number of $8.5 million yet he ended up getting paid $7.5 million. The arbiter can go with either side or meet somewhere between the two, which is what happened. The Preds went low, Weber went high and Weber won.
Considering the deal signed with Philly, webers team was pretty close to what his market value is. Poile was playing games that appear to have bitten him in the ass. I wonder if Poile had offered a market value contract last summer we'd be here today instead of penny pinching.

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07-22-2012, 04:37 PM
  #220
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The problem with taking players to arbitration is the bad feelings that can arise out of them.....My bet is that Weber was none too pleased about Poile using Yandle and Byfuglien as comparible players....no offense to Keith Yandle, a very good defenseman, but nowhere near the player that Shea Weber is. And Dustin Byfuglien? Please. It's because of situations like this that management and players do their best to reach an agreement before the hearing.
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Nice to see other people know and understand the situation at hand. You simply do not take the captain and star player to arbitration, period. If Weber did not want to sign then he should of gotten traded. Nashville and its ?able funding should not be doing it any other way. Unless of coarse you are comfortable with paying what you are going to have to to get him now or except 4 late first round draft picks.

The way they signed Peka is how Nashville needs to work. If it does not work out that way actually get something for your investment/ Dont look like the laughing stock of the league and get 5 cents on the dollar. Simple business.
I remember Peterson doing an interview sometime after the arbitration and basically said Bousquet refused to settle right before the meeting and wanted to go through with it.

We really don't know all the facts to say one side or another is responsible for the arbitration, or if any bad feelings that may or may not exist.

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07-22-2012, 04:40 PM
  #221
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The full 7 days is vintage Poile. Nothing but a better outcome can come from taking the full 7. Even if you knew Day 1 you were going to match, waiting and telling Philly you are going to match and seeing if they budge on Couts is worth the drama. Also, the notoriety the franchise is receiving ain't all bad. We will be the sentimental choice next year, regardless of the outcome. Plays right into our perennial underdog, litte-franchise-that-could MO.
If Poile can match, he'll match. The Preds probably value Shea Weber over any package of young players Philly would send them. Waiting Holmgren out only makes sense if your not gonna match.

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07-22-2012, 04:40 PM
  #222
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Anyone think Ed Snider, a powerful owner got an inside track on the Preds financial capabilities and that's why the Flyers were so aggressive?

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07-22-2012, 04:41 PM
  #223
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from what i understand in arbitration. each side makes an offer and the arbitrator must choose which side is better. they offered Weber 4.75m, a lowball offer, there was no negotiating involved. it was one or the other. maybe it was a tactic, but i'm sure it upset Weber a bit.
Your understanding is not entirely correct. ThirdManIn is right; there is no "offer" involved. Each side merely argues for a certain amount and the arbitrator makes a decision based on those arguments. It's also not "one or the other." The arbitrator can choose any amount that he wants. It doesn't have to be what either side argued for. Usually, an arbitrator will roughly split the difference, which encourages management to "lowball" and the agent to "shoot for the moon." In this case, the awarded $7.5M was closer to the $8.5M that Weber wanted than to the $4.75M that Poile wanted, but was still between the two.

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07-22-2012, 04:47 PM
  #224
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The Preds are going to match this offersheet,because i ask the magic eight ball at target today if shea weber was going to stay in nashville and it said AS I SEE IT,YES

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07-22-2012, 04:57 PM
  #225
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People talk about these guys being professional but when they go to arbitration they get their feelings hurt? Well which is it? If this all about business and money is the issue, a guy having his feelings hurt over what the Preds submitted to an arbitrator is ridiculous. It's business, nothing more nothing less. When the shoe is on the other foot however, the player cries that he got his feelings hurt? If Weber got his feelings hurt than he may not be a leader after all.

And if these guys are professionals, if the Preds match, then he will have to show up and play here for a long time. And guess what, he'll have to be a professional when doing so. That's the joy of offer sheets.

And as far as the money thing goes, if you want to play with the big boys, you better have the capital to back it up. This is a time for no excuses moving forward. Unless Couts and B. Schenn come back in a trade for those picks we get from Philly, we match.

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