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Subban refused qualifying offer

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07-22-2012, 03:05 PM
  #151
Alexdaman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
We should fire MB then.

If we are looking at being a cup contender (or a decent playoff team) in the 3 - 7 year range signing Subban now to a long-term contract only makes sense. Overpaying Subban now for his RFA years and then in a couple of years getting a lower cap hit when we are trying to be a top team in the East would be a smarter choice than signing Subban to a lower cap hit short term contract now and paying for a higher UFA cap hit in a couple of years.

-------

Or putting PK and trade in the same sentence will get them riled up, also. The context and details don't really matter, they read the two words and kaboom!
No question that PK is an impact player. But he's also very unstable in the locker room and on the ice. I would also give him a long term contract but I think MB wants to give himself a way out if matters become bad with PK.

I think PK wants a 6 year contract that would go like this 1st yr 3.5, 2nd 3.5, 3rd 4.0, 4th 4.0, 5th 5.5, 6th 5.5.

While MB would want a 3 year deal at 3.5 a year.

They will probably settle at 4 years 3.5 for the first 3 and 4.5 the 4th.

IMO at least.

I don't think it's a good thing to bow to PK's demands he's a talented player but hasn't proven much yet in fact a lot less than Price. I wouldn't want to make him feel too comfortable.

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07-22-2012, 03:17 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
No question that PK is an impact player. But he's also very unstable in the locker room and on the ice. I would also give him a long term contract but I think MB wants to give himself a way out if matters become bad with PK.

I think PK wants a 6 year contract that would go like this 1st yr 3.5, 2nd 3.5, 3rd 4.0, 4th 4.0, 5th 5.5, 6th 5.5.

While MB would want a 3 year deal at 3.5 a year.

They will probably settle at 4 years 3.5 for the first 3 and 4.5 the 4th.

IMO at least.

I don't think it's a good thing to bow to PK's demands he's a talented player but hasn't proven much yet in fact a lot less than Price. I wouldn't to make him feel too comfortable.
4 years would make him UFA at the end of the contract, so that doesn't work for me. 3 or 5 years will be much more likely.

I'm thinking he'll get paid a lot more than what you're anticipating - I'm guessing $39 million over 7 years for a $5.57 cap hit. That's what we paid Markov and Hamrlik and the same that the Wiz got.

I don't think he's unstable, I know he does some things he shouldn't but he's still a kid. It seems like good natured stuff that's a bit too much for some of the older guys. The younger guys seem unfazed by it and I expect the team to get a lot younger as time goes by.

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07-22-2012, 03:20 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
4 years would make him UFA at the end of the contract, so that doesn't work for me. 3 or 5 years will be much more likely.

I'm thinking he'll get paid a lot more than what you're anticipating - I'm guessing $39 million over 7 years for a $5.57 cap hit. That's what we paid Markov and Hamrlik and the same that the Wiz got.

I don't think he's unstable, I know he does some things he shouldn't but he's still a kid. It seems like good natured stuff that's a bit too much for some of the older guys. The younger guys seem unfazed by it and I expect the team to get a lot younger as time goes by.
Wow that's high. But for 7 years it's not out of the ballpark. I was hoping for something in the 3.9-4.5 range for 5-6 years. But the way signings are going, and in terms of real on-ice value, I could see him breaking 5 and it still being a good contract for the team in the long run.

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Old
07-22-2012, 03:31 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
4 years would make him UFA at the end of the contract, so that doesn't work for me. 3 or 5 years will be much more likely.

I'm thinking he'll get paid a lot more than what you're anticipating - I'm guessing $39 million over 7 years for a $5.57 cap hit. That's what we paid Markov and Hamrlik and the same that the Wiz got.

I don't think he's unstable, I know he does some things he shouldn't but he's still a kid. It seems like good natured stuff that's a bit too much for some of the older guys. The younger guys seem unfazed by it and I expect the team to get a lot younger as time goes by.
Dont like 3 years because then in a year he is UFA and he might be more willing to test the market, 4 years stinks because then he is UFA and 5 only grabs one UFA year, so for me, if your going long then 6 at a minimum but Id prefer 7 or 8 because you really go into the UFA years when you still have leverage and the chance to lower the overall cap hit. Thing is, while I believe in PK I and arent worried about all these character things being raised, Im not sure what his top end is going to look like and another year or two year deal for me is better to assess him and then give him the mother load contract. However, if MB and his people think PK will be a No.1 or No.2 D-man at worse , then go for it. For sure Id go long over 3, 4, and 5 years.

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07-22-2012, 08:13 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I said we should sign PK long-term and if PK doesn't want to sign long-term we should look at trading him.

I never said PK didn't want to be a part of this organization - that would be you putting words in my mouth and then saying what I'm going on about is crap. I also never said that Subban didn't like it here or that he didn't have friends here. that would be you putting words in my mouth and then saying what I'm going on about is crap.


Posts like these are so annoying and misinformed - care to show me what I said that was misinformed.
Except everything you said I said about you, I didn't. Where did I say you said PK didn't have friends?

Comprehension problems I assume. If the GM doesn't do what frozenice says we should fire him. Another arm chair expert, I'm loving it.

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07-22-2012, 08:17 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
No question that PK is an impact player. But he's also very unstable in the locker room and on the ice. I would also give him a long term contract but I think MB wants to give himself a way out if matters become bad with PK.

I think PK wants a 6 year contract that would go like this 1st yr 3.5, 2nd 3.5, 3rd 4.0, 4th 4.0, 5th 5.5, 6th 5.5.

While MB would want a 3 year deal at 3.5 a year.

They will probably settle at 4 years 3.5 for the first 3 and 4.5 the 4th.

IMO at least.

I don't think it's a good thing to bow to PK's demands he's a talented player but hasn't proven much yet in fact a lot less than Price. I wouldn't want to make him feel too comfortable
Exactly right. He's a very talented player but hasn't proved much yet in this league. He's kind of in the same position as voracek. Both very talented players wanting a good bit of money and years but haven't proved to be worth it just yet

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Old
07-22-2012, 08:25 PM
  #157
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Just out of curiosity if the trade was on the table and Winnipeg was willing to do it...would you trade

P.K.Subban and Tomas Plekanec
for
D. Byfuglien and A. Ladd

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Old
07-22-2012, 08:29 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by NHLAlert View Post
Exactly right. He's a very talented player but hasn't proved much yet in this league. He's kind of in the same position as voracek. Both very talented players wanting a good bit of money and years but haven't proved to be worth it just yet
Well, PK led the Habs in ice time last season by a mile, 24min/g. On the top unit in all three situations (5v5, PP, PK). Playing against the opposition's best players every night. We'd be a much worse team without him.

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Both very talented players wanting a good bit of money and years
What kind of money and years does he want? I haven't seen any specifics...

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07-22-2012, 08:35 PM
  #159
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10 year, 45 million dollars.

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07-22-2012, 08:50 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Well, PK led the Habs in ice time last season by a mile, 24min/g. On the top unit in all three situations (5v5, PP, PK). Playing against the opposition's best players every night. We'd be a much worse team without him.

What kind of money and years does he want? I haven't seen any specifics...
Your absolutely right, I just don't look at him right now as someone who should be put in such a big role right now. Montreal could definitely use another really good Dman to play with PK

They really aren't saying too much but it's rumored to be 4 years at 4.2-4.5 mil/ year. Voracek had a career year last year in goals with 19. Definitely not worth that at this point.

PK deserves more than Voracek does though beings that he is one of if not the best Dman on Montreals roster

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07-22-2012, 08:52 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axman88 View Post
Just out of curiosity if the trade was on the table and Winnipeg was willing to do it...would you trade

P.K.Subban and Tomas Plekanec
for
D. Byfuglien and A. Ladd
Nope - not a chance.

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Old
07-22-2012, 08:59 PM
  #162
Alexdaman
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Originally Posted by clownquestionbro View Post
10 year, 45 million dollars.
Way too low for PK he would never accept that, although any human being making more than 500k a year is, in my mind, making more money than anyone could spend and if he was a team player he should accept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by axman88 View Post
Just out of curiosity if the trade was on the table and Winnipeg was willing to do it...would you trade

P.K.Subban and Tomas Plekanec
for
D. Byfuglien and A. Ladd
No freaking way, that wouldn't even pass in NHL 12.

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Old
07-22-2012, 09:02 PM
  #163
Frozenice
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Originally Posted by NHLAlert View Post
Your absolutely right, I just don't look at him right now as someone who should be put in such a big role right now. Montreal could definitely use another really good Dman to play with PK

They really aren't saying too much but it's rumored to be 4 years at 4.2-4.5 mil/ year. Voracek had a career year last year in goals with 19. Definitely not worth that at this point.

PK deserves more than Voracek does though beings that he is one of if not the best Dman on Montreals roster
At least if you overpay Subban it's something you can live with. It's mistakes that are hard to watch on the ice game in and out that I don't like. Plus, if you make a mistake with Subban he'll always be a contract that you can move.

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Old
07-23-2012, 09:32 PM
  #164
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Give PK the same contract that Kane got (or is close to get) with the Jets.

29M$ for 6 years

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Old
07-24-2012, 10:55 AM
  #165
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Subban for Benn e4

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07-24-2012, 11:00 AM
  #166
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I think Habs fans may have been spoiled by years of Markov. It is very, very difficult to find a good #1D.

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07-24-2012, 12:28 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axman88 View Post
Just out of curiosity if the trade was on the table and Winnipeg was willing to do it...would you trade

P.K.Subban and Tomas Plekanec
for
D. Byfuglien and A. Ladd
Subban is superior to Ladd and Byfuglien and Plekanec is far superior than both.

Get the fleecy out.

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Old
07-24-2012, 12:30 PM
  #168
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I think Habs fans may have been spoiled by years of Markov. It is very, very difficult to find a good #1D.
Hardest/most important position to play in hockey. Other than maybe goaltender.

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Old
07-24-2012, 12:36 PM
  #169
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Subban for Benn e4
As much as we could use Benn, we need Subban more

Offer-sheet his arse instead!

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Old
07-24-2012, 12:40 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Paul Dipietro View Post
As much as we could use Benn, we need Subban more

Offer-sheet his arse instead!
offer sheet them both

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Old
07-24-2012, 12:47 PM
  #171
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Quote:
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Subban for Benn e4
No way in hell.

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