HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

PSU Death Penalty?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-22-2012, 04:40 PM
  #76
Fenza
G-Rouxnit
 
Fenza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: State College, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 853
vCash: 500
I'll be a freshman in the fall and I would be beyond upset if the football program got the death penalty. There is an entire new staff and group of players that had nothing to do with the incidents from years and years ago. The football program has taken a whole new identity and it would be a tragedy to see it be shut down. Not to mention all the money they would lose on tickets and TV.

Fenza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 04:41 PM
  #77
JVR21
G
 
JVR21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 7,869
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Pretty much worthless unless the NCAA also takes an active role in forcing an actual enforcement department on Penn State and takes precautions with the understanding that failure to effectively enforce child safety requirements and to report criminal proceedings in the future will lead to even greater punishments.

That's one of the reasons why the NCAA should've put down the death penalty on Penn State's football program, so as to ensure that the university actually made the relevant changes required to prevent something like this from ever happening again before they fielded their football team again, like their actions in shutting down SMU until they were confident that such gross recruitment violations were a thing of the past there, too.

If the punishments being rumored are all that the NCAA's considering, it's nothing more than beating up a monster, throwing it to the ground, and walking away, hoping that it's changed for the better by the time it gets back up.

On top of that, sorry.... but complaining that the NCAA should care about the economic well-being of the local community if the football program was shut down is just garbage. That's for the community leaders to worry about, like a certain football coach, athletics director, vice president of the university, and a president of a university. But hey, they didn't care about that and were more concerned with sticking their heads in the sand than deal with the problem at their doorsteps, so why should the NCAA worry about that if Penn State's higher ups weren't?
Sandusky is put away for life. Paterno is dead. The president is out. The head trustee is out. The AD is out. Assistant coaches are out. Comments like the bolded don't make sense to me anymore. There won't be another coach who has the power like JoePa, simply put.

JVR21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 04:43 PM
  #78
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 37,253
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Sandusky is put away for life. Paterno is dead. The president is out. The head trustee is out. The AD is out. Assistant coaches are out. Comments like the bolded don't make sense to me anymore. There won't be another coach who has the power like JoePa, simply put.
Hitting PSU hard sends a powerful message to every other school to not cover up illegal activity. It's not just to make sure it doesn't happen at PSU again, it's to tell other schools to keep straight as well.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 04:46 PM
  #79
JVR21
G
 
JVR21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 7,869
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Hitting PSU hard sends a powerful message to every other school to not cover up illegal activity. It's not just to make sure it doesn't happen at PSU again, it's to tell other schools to keep straight as well.
That's stupid. You think other schools don't realize this by now?

JVR21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 04:46 PM
  #80
No Fun Shogun
Global Moderator
34-38-61-10-13
 
No Fun Shogun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 24,925
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
No, what's garbage is that fact that the NCAA has any say in this matter at all.

This is a criminal investigation. The NCAA has reign only over the athletic programs. They can punish the athletic programs, but as soon as it begins to harm the education of the students and the income of those un-involved with the scandal it has gone too far.
Yeah, and that's why the NCAA is focusing on the nature of how to punish a school's athletic department and isn't talking about building a special prison to house the offenders. The NCAA is focusing on the athletic program, aka the location where a big chunk of the child ***** occurred and the institution whose collective higher ups decided to ignore said child ***** to protect the school's image.

And what students are getting harmed because of the NCAA's actions? Players that lose their scholarships will almost assuredly be free to transfer to another school of their choice without punishment, as has occurred in past situations where a school had to give up lost scholarships.

Quote:
Let the law dictate the punishment for those involved. The NCAA is not the law as much as it wants to be. In the end it only hurts those who don't deserve to be hurt because the rest will be more than taken care of by the judicial system.

The only reason the NCAA is involved at all is to protect their own image. It's all about the money. Do you really think they care that much about this?

The NCAA is in it to protect themselves just like Paterno was protecting himself.
And the law is involved in what they have authority, over the criminal prosecution of the people who broke the law. The NCAA, meanwhile, is getting involved in where they have authority, enforcing compliance standards on facility safety, enforcing the well-being and public image of the NCAA and it's member institutions, and enforcing punishments on member school that act against the better interest of the NCAA as a whole.

And I couldn't care less the reasons why the NCAA is punishing Penn State. They're not the ones that turned a blind eye to child **** or who had thousands of supporters rally in idiotic support of a person who allowed for heinous actions to occur in his program for a decade. The NCAA could be doing it because they secretly don't like the color blue for all that I care.

No Fun Shogun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 04:50 PM
  #81
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,364
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Private parties do retain the right to litigate if private organizations violate their own by-laws, I believe. I'm not a lawyer, though. In this case, as I said before, I do think that the NCAA can probably assert a legal right to intervene, and I don't imagine Penn St. would fight it, even if they believed that they were wrong to do so, simply because it would look so bad.
Absolutely, but in such cases, the party suing has a high mountain to climb. I don't know exactly what the NCAA by-laws say and what agreements are signed and so forth with the schools, but by and large courts will not interfere with how a private organization interprets it own rules. Now, if they are doing something illegal that is a different matter.



Quote:
The twister irony is that it was seemingly the presence of institutional control rather than its absence that was responsible for most of the developments in question here.

If the football program had covered up these events without the university's knowledge, then that would meet the institutional control standard, I think. The fact that the cover-up happened at the university level, albiet with the knowledge (and / or complicity) of Paterno and other members of the football staff, seems to make this an issue of a different scale than the NCAA has previously dealt with.
I think the idea behind the rule of institutional control is so that things don't happen like this. Be it such a large scale that the entire university is covering up the acts of its athletic staff or if they are covering up the acts of student-athletes or if they are simply letting the football team run wild.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 04:50 PM
  #82
No Fun Shogun
Global Moderator
34-38-61-10-13
 
No Fun Shogun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 24,925
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Sandusky is put away for life. Paterno is dead. The president is out. The head trustee is out. The AD is out. Assistant coaches are out. Comments like the bolded don't make sense to me anymore. There won't be another coach who has the power like JoePa, simply put.
They've made zero real institutional changes and the culture of football first likely still remains, as evident by the university's own past actions in preventing an active pedophile from being brought to justice and by the fanbase at large that rallied in anger over Paterno getting fired in the wake of everything that became public. We didn't know then what we knew now, but ******* did we have a pretty damn strong inkling about what happened and Paterno's involvement.

People that were directly involved in the scandal in question no longer being there has never been a legitimate excuse for schools not getting punished in the past, because if it had then USC should've been safe after Bush and Carroll jumped ship. Direct your anger at the institution that allowed all of this to happen for a decade, both for the negative ramifications that your university is experiencing now and for the victims of Sandusky's crimes for all that they had to go through.

And I get it.... Penn State fans should be pissed if it came to this, much like how I'd get pissed if Illinois got hammered in such a huge way, but directing your anger at the NCAA instead of your own backyard is all kinds of foolhardy at this point in time.

No Fun Shogun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 04:52 PM
  #83
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 37,253
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
That's stupid. You think other schools don't realize this by now?
If an example isn't made they won't take notice. Instead, they'll realize that nothing will happen to them and they'll carry on doing what they're doing.

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 04:59 PM
  #84
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
They've made zero real institutional changes and the culture of football first likely still remains, as evident by the university's own past actions in preventing an active pedophile from being brought to justice and by the fanbase at large that rallied in anger over Paterno getting fired in the wake of everything that became public. We didn't know then what we knew now, but ******* did we have a pretty damn strong inkling about what happened and Paterno's involvement.

People that were directly involved in the scandal in question no longer being there has never been a legitimate excuse for schools not getting punished in the past, because if it had then USC should've been safe after Bush and Carroll jumped ship. Direct your anger at the institution that allowed all of this to happen for a decade, both for the negative ramifications that your university is experiencing now and for the victims of Sandusky's crimes for all that they had to go through.

And I get it.... Penn State fans should be pissed if it came to this, much like how I'd get pissed if Illinois got hammered in such a huge way, but directing your anger at the NCAA instead of your own backyard is all kinds of foolhardy at this point in time.
There's nothing wrong with the NCAA punishing and/or taking preventative steps to make sure no such actions happen again at PSU, or other institutions for that matter.

They need to be wary though since realistically this is not an "athletic operations" matter outside of the fact that it occurred in an athletic facility that also happens to house an NCAA affiliated operation and that those that committed the act were members of the NCAA community.

While it is on a much larger scale, it's the same as punishing an institution because a football player stole a soda from the soda machine. It happened on NCAA affiliated property, and it was an NCAA affiliated person who committed the act. In both cases you're intent should be to punish those responsible, not the school for admitting a student who kicks in soda machines because then it would partially be the NCAA's fault for allowing him to compete in NCAA events thus giving the university the go ahead and motivation to bring in such a student. I hope you see where I'm going with this. If the school is culpable, so is the NCAA.

The real kicker here is that the acts were kept a secret from the NCAA (and other bodies) by NCAA affiliated persons. That's the only legitimate reason I could see where the NCAA would have the grounds for such actions.

That said, I agree that the intent is right in action and visible "spirit" (even if its only to protect the NCAA). I have no problem levying some punishment on the PROGRAM involved to be sure no such problems occur in the future. That said, we need to emphasize that we are punishing the PROGRAM and not the school, the students, or the community. It is under these grounds that I feel a termination, suspension, or even a excessive punishment to the program and institution to be problematic.


Last edited by CS: 07-22-2012 at 05:08 PM.
CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 05:00 PM
  #85
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 13,125
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post

And I get it.... Penn State fans should be pissed if it came to this, much like how I'd get pissed if Illinois got hammered in such a huge way, but directing your anger at the NCAA instead of your own backyard is all kinds of foolhardy at this point in time.
I don't think you have a very good handle on the situation, to be honest, if you don't think that a great deal of anger has and will continued to be directed at all parts of the university responsible for this. Like you hinted, I was one who initially wanted to wait and see on Paterno's involvement, and I'd still like to know more about the timeline in 1998, but it certainly doesn't look good. I'd give the Penn State students the benefit of the doubt, here. I do not think that, if the information we now know was widely available at the time, they would have reacted in quite the same manner.

The anger / annoyance / suspicion / etc. at the NCAA is not misdirected from the football program and the university administrators. It is a separate issue--one which goes to both the intent and judgement of the NCAA in getting involved in the case, before the criminal proceedings have run their course, and when all parties to the initial crimes and events have been fired, forced to resign, incarcerated, or died. To a skeptic, it appears that the intent here is less to correct the problem at Penn St.--which Penn St. has at least made some effort to do--than it is to garner a few (rare) positive headlines from the editorial boards of major newspapers.

Jack de la Hoya is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 05:08 PM
  #86
No Fun Shogun
Global Moderator
34-38-61-10-13
 
No Fun Shogun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 24,925
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
They need to be wary though since realistically this is not an "athletic operations" matter outside of the fact that it occurred in an athletic facility that also happens to house an NCAA affiliated operation and that those that committed the act were members of the NCAA community.

While it is on a much larger scale, it's the same as punishing an institution because a football player stole a soda from the soda machine. It happened on NCAA affiliated property, and it was an NCAA affiliated person who committed the act.
Sorry, but this is where I need to disagree with you.

Do you really think that if this exact same situation happened in the Penn State baseball program or volleyball program or track and field program that the university higher ups would've cowered in fear and kept hiding it for as long as possible? Or if it happened in the music department or physics department or the college of liberal arts?

This all happened because it happened in the football program, and every one of the higher ups that had authority over that goliath was too afraid to rock the boat and potentially harm it than they were then informing the authorities of the crimes that were taking place and protecting the well-being of the victims.

That's why the NCAA can, should, and is getting involved. The football program was apparently more important than everything else at Penn State, and as such the school had a bunch of otherwise intelligent, accomplished, apparently well-intentioned, and powerful individuals all duck and cover rather than face the problems that were right in front of them.

This absolutely was a football problem.

And no, it's not like a student athlete stealing a soda. It's like a student athlete operating a meth lab in the locker room and giving the drugs out to minors on Penn State facilities for years all the while the higher ups that had the power and the knowledge to stop it did nothing. I'd say that that would be worthy of punishment from the NCAA as well.

No Fun Shogun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 05:16 PM
  #87
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Sorry, but this is where I need to disagree with you.

Do you really think that if this exact same situation happened in the Penn State baseball program or volleyball program or track and field program that the university higher ups would've cowered in fear and kept hiding it for as long as possible? Or if it happened in the music department or physics department or the college of liberal arts?

This all happened because it happened in the football program, and every one of the higher ups that had authority over that goliath was too afraid to rock the boat and potentially harm it than they were then informing the authorities of the crimes that had/were taking place and protecting the well-being of the victims.

That's why the NCAA can, should, and is getting involved. The football program was apparently more important than everything else at Penn State, and as such the school had a bunch of otherwise intelligent, accomplished, apparently well-intentioned, and powerful individuals all duck and cover rather than face the problems that were right in front of them.

This absolutely was a football problem.

And no, it's not like a student athlete stealing a soda. It's like a student athlete operating a meth lab in the locker room and giving the drugs out to minors on Penn State facilities for years all the while the higher ups that had the power and the knowledge to stop it did nothing. I'd say that that would be worthy of punishment from the NCAA as well.
I agree with you. You're making the same point as me, you're just taking it in the wrong direction.

See bold: It's exactly the same as the soda example accept it was covered up. That cover up is what I see the NCAA having grounds on. NCAA affiliated parties were involved in that cover up.

At this point the NCAA should get involved in so much as that cover up. They should not be involved or make comments on any of the criminal activity outside of the fact that it was disgusting and that they do not wish to be associated with it.

Because of the cover up the NCAA should absolutely show that such actions should not and will not be tolerated by punishing the PROGRAM which was involved in the cover up.

That said, the students, the university outside of a few higher ups who have already been removed/penalized, and the community were not involved in the cover up, and for all intents and purposes concerning this case, are not relevant to the NCAA involvement in PSU. The NCAA therefore has no grounds to terminate, suspend, or do anything that would result in similar results to the PSU football program.

Make them into a lesser prestige program? Sure. Hurt there chances to compete? Sure. Take away their ability to make incredible amounts of money based on their namesake? Sure.

Do not eradicate or effectively eradicate them from existence and do not hurt the NCAA members of other athletic programs at PSU.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 05:40 PM
  #88
2minutes4slashing
Registered User
 
2minutes4slashing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: niota, tennessee
Country: United States
Posts: 193
vCash: 500
Ehh, no big deal, the PSU Football program hasent been relevant in how many years now??

2minutes4slashing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 06:00 PM
  #89
PPPower
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 71
vCash: 500
To those that think this won't effect the students are being naive. Obviously football is huge at PSU (whether they are good or not), which means huge revenue. So you may say that PSU doesn't deserve that revenue, but who exactly is 'PSU' because those directly related to this incident have all been punished already.

Not only will this obviously directly effect football players but more importantly almost all athletics, as funding from them also likely stems from the lucrative football program. I wouldn't be surprised if it affected general tuition as well.

Death Penalty wouldn't surprise me however, the NCAA is a joke and loves sticking their nose where it doesn't belong.

PPPower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 06:07 PM
  #90
BringBackStevens
Registered User
 
BringBackStevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 12,023
vCash: 500
College sports need to be knocked down a peg, so i'm all for it.

BringBackStevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 06:08 PM
  #91
Justified
Moderator
Amaro out
 
Justified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 28,173
vCash: 673
I see this situation as a criminal activity and those involved should be tried in court and the school should be sued by the victims. I do not like the NCAA getting involved. From what i read they arent going to be banned from football at all. I read on college sports writer who say it could be something along the lines of 50% scholarship reduction and a bowl ban.

Justified is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 07:02 PM
  #92
Mkoll
Inkvisiittori
 
Mkoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Country: Finland
Posts: 779
vCash: 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
That's not the students and players of the programs fault. It was an administrative problem. Their administration should be the one that is punished.
When it comes to child abuse no school should be a sanctuary for it. It is a shame students are caught in the middle, but that is the price to be paid when their administrators let these degenerates get away with their despicable acts.

This would definitely send a signal to anyone else sweeping this sort of actions under the rug.

It is only a sports program, school should be about learning. If students went there simply because of the football team, they probably shouldnt be in school anyway.
As long as the academics are not affected, who cares.

Mkoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 07:19 PM
  #93
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,364
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
I'm really surprised so many people are against the NCAA getting involved. Not to be a jerk, but how many of you against it are PSU fans? I don't mean to sound condescending or anything like that I am just curious how many non-PSU fans feel this way, as it is expected for PSU fans to feel this way.

To me it seems pretty clear cut. They (meaning EVERYONE involved) ****ed up beyond all repair. More than anyone in sports history. And they did it on purpose, regardless of what the reasons were (protect their own *****, the school's, whatever). Those who broke the law will be prosecuted. Those who ****ed up will be sued. But why should it stop there? Why would we say ok, they have had enough. Because the students will be mad? Because some people will lose money? Oh well. Next time you see something like this, don't try and cover it up. Sure, maybe the lawsuits and jail time will do it, but wouldn't you want to make absolutely sure something like this never happens again anywhere for any reason?

I never thought I would ever hear of a situation where a man did such terrible things, and it was then covered up and people would be worried that they are going to be punished too harshly.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 07:29 PM
  #94
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 13,125
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'm really surprised so many people are against the NCAA getting involved. Not to be a jerk, but how many of you against it are PSU fans? I don't mean to sound condescending or anything like that I am just curious how many non-PSU fans feel this way, as it is expected for PSU fans to feel this way.

To me it seems pretty clear cut. They (meaning EVERYONE involved) ****ed up beyond all repair. More than anyone in sports history. And they did it on purpose, regardless of what the reasons were (protect their own *****, the school's, whatever). Those who broke the law will be prosecuted. Those who ****ed up will be sued. But why should it stop there? Why would we say ok, they have had enough. Because the students will be mad? Because some people will lose money? Oh well. Next time you see something like this, don't try and cover it up. Sure, maybe the lawsuits and jail time will do it, but wouldn't you want to make absolutely sure something like this never happens again anywhere for any reason?

I never thought I would ever hear of a situation where a man did such terrible things, and it was then covered up and people would be worried that they are going to be punished too harshly.
I think you're missing the point.

At issue whether, and to what extent, the NCAA should be punishing the people who had literally nothing to do with the criminal and immoral activities. As far as I can tell, no one who was involved in any of these events is even still at the university--so punishing "Penn State" writ large raises some questions about the NCAA's judgement. That's not to say there isn't merit in creating a deterrence, or working to change the "institutional culture," etc.--but to talk about "punishing" the university, when the parties are no longer there, seems a bit questionable.

To answer your first question--I'd certainly consider myself a "fan" of Penn State football, much as I consider myself a fan of the Flyers. But neither I, not anyone in my extended family, ever attended the university, so I don't really see myself as "biased"--at least not to the point of an inability to impartially evaluate the facts of the case, etc. I'm sure many posters here grew up Penn St. football fans, and probably quite a few have relatives who attended the university, which has, I believe, the largest alumni base in the country.

Jack de la Hoya is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 08:11 PM
  #95
Appleyard
Registered User
 
Appleyard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Manc/Shef/Utrecht
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 5,424
vCash: 165
I live in England and the Netherlands (yeh... complicated but true) and in college football support the Vols, and not very ardently either, and IMO the NCAA would be overstepping the mark punishing so many people who had literally nothing to do with any of it.

Put it in terms of if the same events happened to the university chemistry department... would it be fair and just for someone to dock scholarships for all the science departments, not let their students go on exchange years to europe or compete for national awards and cut their funding by 50%.

In my view it is harming even more people by doing so, when those who were to blame have been dealt with in court, and no longer play a role at the University.

Appleyard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 08:30 PM
  #96
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,364
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I think you're missing the point.

At issue whether, and to what extent, the NCAA should be punishing the people who had literally nothing to do with the criminal and immoral activities. As far as I can tell, no one who was involved in any of these events is even still at the university--so punishing "Penn State" writ large raises some questions about the NCAA's judgement. That's not to say there isn't merit in creating a deterrence, or working to change the "institutional culture," etc.--but to talk about "punishing" the university, when the parties are no longer there, seems a bit questionable.
Enough with this "they are punishing people that are no longer there" and "the people there are innocent" bull crap. That is the nature of college football. USC just got off their bowl ban and scholarship loss for something that happened a decade ago. The current players there had nothing to do with it. That is what happens. If it was easy enough to say "well everyone is gone" then no school would ever get penalized unless a team/player/coach was caught in the act, which rarely happens. The only reason no one is there anymore is because they were all fired or died. If all they had to do was fire people to get around the NCAA's punishment, violations would be even more rampant than they are now around the college football ranks.

It sucks for the kids there now and the surrounding folks and the fans, it really does. But they have no one to blame but PSU and PSU has no one to blame but themselves.

Quote:
To answer your first question--I'd certainly consider myself a "fan" of Penn State football, much as I consider myself a fan of the Flyers. But neither I, not anyone in my extended family, ever attended the university, so I don't really see myself as "biased"--at least not to the point of an inability to impartially evaluate the facts of the case, etc. I'm sure many posters here grew up Penn St. football fans, and probably quite a few have relatives who attended the university, which has, I believe, the largest alumni base in the country.
Ok, just checking to see where people's arguments are coming from.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 08:36 PM
  #97
JVR21
G
 
JVR21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 7,869
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Enough with this "they are punishing people that are no longer there" and "the people there are innocent" bull crap. That is the nature of college football. USC just got off their bowl ban and scholarship loss for something that happened a decade ago. The current players there had nothing to do with it. That is what happens. If it was easy enough to say "well everyone is gone" then no school would ever get penalized unless a team/player/coach was caught in the act, which rarely happens. The only reason no one is there anymore is because they were all fired or died. If all they had to do was fire people to get around the NCAA's punishment, violations would be even more rampant than they are now around the college football ranks.

It sucks for the kids there now and the surrounding folks and the fans, it really does. But they have no one to blame but PSU and PSU has no one to blame but themselves.



Ok, just checking to see where people's arguments are coming from.
NCAA rules were violated with Reggie Bush. NO NCAA rules were violated with PSU.

JVR21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 08:40 PM
  #98
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 37,253
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
NCAA rules were violated with Reggie Bush. NO NCAA rules were violated with PSU.
Reggie Bush didn't **** half a 5th grade class and have it knowingly covered up by his school's program. At some point the offense becomes so grievous that some action has to be taken. The program blew it (understatement) and there need to be consequences.

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 08:42 PM
  #99
Gert B Frobe
Registered User
 
Gert B Frobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Morgantown PA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,453
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'm really surprised so many people are against the NCAA getting involved. Not to be a jerk, but how many of you against it are PSU fans? I don't mean to sound condescending or anything like that I am just curious how many non-PSU fans feel this way, as it is expected for PSU fans to feel this way.

To me it seems pretty clear cut. They (meaning EVERYONE involved) ****ed up beyond all repair. More than anyone in sports history. And they did it on purpose, regardless of what the reasons were (protect their own *****, the school's, whatever). Those who broke the law will be prosecuted. Those who ****ed up will be sued. But why should it stop there? Why would we say ok, they have had enough. Because the students will be mad? Because some people will lose money? Oh well. Next time you see something like this, don't try and cover it up. Sure, maybe the lawsuits and jail time will do it, but wouldn't you want to make absolutely sure something like this never happens again anywhere for any reason?

I never thought I would ever hear of a situation where a man did such terrible things, and it was then covered up and people would be worried that they are going to be punished too harshly.
I haven't seen one PSU fan come out in support of an NCAA ban. It's really that simple. Explain it all you want but the folks with the silly blue paw on the back of their cars would absolutely want a ban if this took place at Michigan or Florida State, etc. To deny it is just laughable. People are fans - that's just the way it is.

Your last comment is right on - that's what is so nauseating about this whole thing. It's the PSU fans complaining about a ban - debating the power of the NCAA blah blah blah... disgusting.

Gert B Frobe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 08:47 PM
  #100
JVR21
G
 
JVR21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 7,869
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Reggie Bush didn't **** half a 5th grade class and have it knowingly covered up by his school's program. At some point the offense becomes so grievous that some action has to be taken. The program blew it (understatement) and there need to be consequences.
Yeah, that's when the ****ing CRIMINAL COURTS come into play. You know, where the guilty get JAIL TIME. There's no need for the NCAA to get involved in criminal acts that truly had nothing to do with the football team. Like Appleyard said:
Quote:
Put it in terms of if the same events happened to the university chemistry department... would it be fair and just for someone to dock scholarships for all the science departments, not let their students go on exchange years to europe or compete for national awards and cut their funding by 50%.

JVR21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:09 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.