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PSU Death Penalty?

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07-23-2012, 01:55 AM
  #126
flybynite77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
I wonder if the NCAA will allow any player to leave Penn State without having to sit a year. It sounds like the sanctions coming down are pretty harsh. loss of scholarships, bowl games ect ect for many years.
outside of the players on the PSU football team I dont feel bad for PSU one bit. they made their own bed.
What is a fine of 50 million going to do btw? line the pockets of the morons at the NCAA?
In previous situations the NCAA has allowed athletes who would not be bowl eligible during the remainder of the college eligibility to transfer without having to sit out a season.

Most recently several players from the UCONN men's basketball transferred as they were Juniors and UCONN is banned from post-season play next year due to not meeting academic standards. Those players will not have to sit out a season.

When USC football was hit with a 2 year bowl ban the NCAA allowed players with 2 seasons or less of college eligibility to transfer without sitting out a year as well.

I'm not sure what happens if PSU gets hit with a longer bowl ban than USC did. If they get 3 or 4 years does that mean they'll then let every single player transfer without sitting out a year?Who knows.

In the USC situation the NCAA also then allowed other coaches to actively 'recruit' players off of USC's roster who fit the 2 seasons left eligibility. We might see something similar with PSU.

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07-23-2012, 07:03 AM
  #127
Gert B Frobe
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When the whole thing started coming out I thought that Penn State should have been more proactive and fired Paterno on the spot. They should have dedicated the remainder of the season to at-risk and abused children. They should have declared that Penn State's new mission statement going forward was to protect children. They should have created an entire program in their psych department dedicated to research for the treatment of abuse victims. They should have donated 30-60 million on the spot to abuse victim treatment etc.

Still the University was stuck in cover-up and "what's best for football" mode and did nothing.

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07-23-2012, 07:22 AM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PPPower View Post
That's how it works in the real world though. And for the most part professional sports... Look at the NFL with the Saints current issue, punishing those culpable. The way the NCAA has handled situations with the blanket approach is a joke, because it's so broad and the instances that cause them are so narrow it fails as a decent deterrent.
And not punishing them would surely be a much better deterrent. Come on. These are two very different situations, both in scope and in the differences between what the NCAA is/how it is structured/how college sports operate and how the NFL is. The NCAA would have very little significance in terms of policing the schools involved if all they had to do were fire people to avoid sanction.

An NFL team getting punished for a previous owner's actions doesn't make sense, I agree. It's his money being spent, it's his operations now, he is in control and can rectify the situations and not do it again. There is no need to punish him because there is no tie to the old owner. A college however, is spending the money that was earned in part thanks to the rule violations of the previous coach, student, AD, president whatever you want to go with. To allow them to the future people to benefit from that simply because the wrongdoers are gone makes little sense. Schools would be encouraged to cheat, take the money, and fire those culpable when caught. You could pay the top recruits $20k a year to play for your school, win a couple National Titles, get the bowl $$$ and revenue from your success, maybe a TV contract, then when the hammer comes down, just fire the president of the university, AD, coach and say the kids are gone. No harm, no foul, right?

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Almost everyone agrees the Ohio State sanctions were overly harsh, similar to USC. The NCAA gets ridiculously up in arms when it involves players and money even though the universities make bank off the sport as does the NCAA.
And I agree. I think the NCAA has done a TERRIBLE job being consistent and being even coherent regarding punishment of teams in the past. That doesn't mean they should not punish someone here or in the future. I'd rather see them punish PSU too hard or too light than not do anything at all.

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The only situations were I see punishing the whole team is when the issue in question gave the team an unfair advantage in a game that was already played. Like illegal recruiting and then they went to win a game, or some sort of performance enhancing cover up. Something that would involve the coaches and players.
Ok, coaches were invovled, and so were the president, AD, and VP. But players needed to be involved for it to be ok to punish. That makes sense.

Yeah, a school and football program covering up a child rapist running amok within the football program is not a matter for the organization charged with policing said football program. Answer to the courts, but the organization that you are a member of and has specific rules and regulations that you violated has no business handing down any punishments.

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Originally Posted by PPPower View Post
Sandusky was no longer on the coaching staff at the time and hadn't been for like 7 years or sth, I don't see how that would have hurt recruiting. If anything I feel like it would have been a reason to applaud the 'moral fiber' of Joe Paterno if he was to have exposed it, with Sandusky being a former friend and coach. Of course that isn't how it happened though. I'm just not sure how it would have hurt recruiting if exposed.
Really? You think that covering this up didn't help recruiting? You think that in 2001 if this came out, there would be no effect on recruiting? No bad press? No loss of money from sponsors or donors? Nothing? That seems likely. This type of crime isn't the type of crime that gets people upset.

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07-23-2012, 07:56 AM
  #129
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07-23-2012, 08:12 AM
  #130
Krishna
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60m fine to Penn state
Banned from Bowl games for 4 years
Scholarships from 25 to 15 for 4 years
Players allowed to transfer and compete immediately
Players can stay even if they don;t play football
Penn state wins vacated from 1998-2011
5 year probation period
Possible sanctions and fines possible for individuals after the criminal case

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07-23-2012, 08:15 AM
  #131
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Well said by this guy: "The so called death penalty would cause significant harm to those not involved."

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CBS Philly ‏@CBSPhilly
#NCAA We need all major colleges and universities to do a gut check on cutlure in athletics and balance to education
^. When did education make its way into this? Penn State's education has always been top notch. This was all about image.


Last edited by JVR21: 07-23-2012 at 08:29 AM.
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07-23-2012, 08:33 AM
  #132
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Evan Royster ‏@Evan_Royster
ah crap... so i lost every college football game i ever played in?

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07-23-2012, 08:34 AM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
60m fine to Penn state
Banned from Bowl games for 4 years
Scholarships from 25 to 15 for 4 years
Players allowed to transfer and compete immediately
Players can stay even if they don;t play football
Penn state wins vacated from 1998-2011
5 year probation period
Possible sanctions and fines possible for individuals after the criminal case
A one year Death Penalty would have been kinder.

Joe Paterno ran Penn State.Not the President or Chancellor or AD. This penalty reflects that.

I would imagine someone will be suing the NCAA.

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07-23-2012, 08:37 AM
  #134
Krishna
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Originally Posted by Jumping View Post
A one year Death Penalty would have been kinder.

Joe Paterno ran Penn State.Not the President or Chancellor or AD. This penalty reflects that.

I would imagine someone will be suing the NCAA.
His reasoning for giving a harsher penalty was because he wanted to maximize the punishment without too much effects on individuals who were not involved

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07-23-2012, 08:47 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
60m fine to Penn state
Banned from Bowl games for 4 years
Scholarships from 25 to 15 for 4 years
Players allowed to transfer and compete immediately
Players can stay even if they don;t play football
Penn state wins vacated from 1998-2011
5 year probation period
Possible sanctions and fines possible for individuals after the criminal case
The wins should have been vacated from 2002 forward, I think. The 1998 incident was investigated by the police, after all, and no charges were filed. It is a bit harder to hold Paterno and company responsible for "covering up" something that was vetted by the authorities, isn't it?

Otherwise, I don't really have a problem with that. It will be interesting to see how big of an impact this has on the recruiting class--they had a trio of pretty big names (Hackenberg, Breneman, and Johnson) on board. Now they can't look forward to playing in a bowl game until their senior year.

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07-23-2012, 08:51 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
His reasoning for giving a harsher penalty was because he wanted to maximize the punishment without too much effects on individuals who were not involved
The program became bigger than the University. There are a lot of people complicit in that. Included in that is the NCAA for allowing a lot of Football tail to wag the academic dog in most major Universities.

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07-23-2012, 08:51 AM
  #137
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I thought it was going to be harsher. Not sure how this really is worse than the death penalty as some said it was going to be.

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07-23-2012, 08:59 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I thought it was going to be harsher. Not sure how this really is worse than the death penalty as some said it was going to be.
The scholarship reduction, bowl ban, an provision for free transfers will pretty significantly reduce the level of talent in the program over the next five years--probably more-so than a one-year suspension would have.

But I sort of agree. The television ban was tricky to manipulate, but that made a lot of sense as a potential punishment.

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07-23-2012, 09:15 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
The scholarship reduction, bowl ban, an provision for free transfers will pretty significantly reduce the level of talent in the program over the next five years--probably more-so than a one-year suspension would have.

But I sort of agree. The television ban was tricky to manipulate, but that made a lot of sense as a potential punishment.
Yeah I mean these are certainly significant sanctions, but when they said worse than death penalty I was figuring it would be like loss of ALL scholarships for several years, essentially making them a D-2 school for two or three or however many years it would be. Well it's done now. Back to hockey!

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07-23-2012, 09:18 AM
  #140
Krishna
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Ohio cornerback Ross Douglas has decommitted from #PennState, per Bill Greene.

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07-23-2012, 09:22 AM
  #141
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Only silver lining in this whole ordeal is now maybe Rutgers gets a few PSU guys...

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07-23-2012, 09:33 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Ohio cornerback Ross Douglas has decommitted from #PennState, per Bill Greene.
He won't be the last.

If Hackenberg stays, they might be able to hold on to Breneman, and that might keep some sort of class together. If he opts to go elsewhere, though, the entire thing will collapse.

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07-23-2012, 09:44 AM
  #143
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Back when the story broke about this I was telling my fiance how I felt about being a PSU student and I said that by covering this up they did far more harm than anything if they had came clean when it occurred to which she disagreed with me regardless of the sanctions faced and harm to reputation. It's not just embarrassing to me as a student, but I would have to think that the players who did not know about this for years feel worse. This might sound odd but even though I went to main campus for a year and a half, I never went to a football game. I did, however, go to a few hockey games which were quite fun.

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07-23-2012, 09:51 AM
  #144
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Moral of the story, dont abuse kids and if you know its happening stop it!

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07-23-2012, 10:07 AM
  #145
4thline4life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Only silver lining in this whole ordeal is now maybe Rutgers gets a few PSU guys...
nope Pitt football can finally get back to the glory days we definitely benefited big time from this, i still don't agree with it though.

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07-23-2012, 10:10 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by DrHamburg View Post
Moral of the story, dont abuse kids and if you know its happening stop it!
yeah, because if you don't the NCAA will be coming after you

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07-23-2012, 10:16 AM
  #147
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It's not a death penalty, but definitely a 3 legged Chihuahua, with a murky eye, being asked to pull a dogsled.

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07-23-2012, 10:23 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by TheIceman26 View Post
nope Pitt football can finally get back to the glory days we definitely benefited big time from this, i still don't agree with it though.
Haha, yeah Pitt will probably get a bunch of guys out of this. Their best players are probably going to just go to other B10 schools.

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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
It's not a death penalty, but definitely a 3 legged Chihuahua, with a murky eye, being asked to pull a dogsled.
Someone on Twitter called it the "Life Support Penalty."

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07-23-2012, 10:26 AM
  #149
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How did the NCAA move rather quickly to put out this PSU sentence and yet they still haven't deliberated anything for the Yahoo! Sports/Miami Hurricanes probe?

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07-23-2012, 10:29 AM
  #150
4thline4life
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How did the NCAA move rather quickly to put out this PSU sentence and yet they still haven't deliberated anything for the Yahoo! Sports/Miami Hurricanes probe?
they skipped the NCAA official investigation part...being dead serious about that.

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