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NHL Free Agency Thread 7 (Legit Sources ONLY) Shane Doan visiting Montreal (Post 400)

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Old
07-23-2012, 12:34 PM
  #301
optimus2861
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The real losers are the ones who worship the cult of 8th place. They don't have the balls to try and build a championship team, to do what it takes to win.
And unfortunately we're coming off a season where an 8th seed won the Cup, so that naturally creates some expectation that all you have to do is sneak into the playoffs... Except that the Kings are structured nothing like a typical 8th seed, and will probably challenge for a top-3 seed in the west this year if they stay healthy.

Even with a patch job the Habs are a bubble team at best, and that's before we know whether Therrien has a net positive or net negative influence on the roster (my best hope is he's a small net positive; my fear is that he ends up a significant net negative).

We ain't Cup contenders this year. Not even close.

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07-23-2012, 12:40 PM
  #302
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Correct. I am focused on winning championships not first round exits.

The real losers are the ones who worship the cult of 8th place. They don't have the balls to try and build a championship team, to do what it takes to win.
You mean like the Kings?

Islanders, Edmonton and Columbus certainly have no problem ''doing what it takes'' to win championships. So far nada.

There is no one way to build a cup. You also don't go from lottery team to contender in a year (unless you shouldn't have been there in the first place, like Philly).
You get good early picks, bring in quality free agents, and build winners.

Semin can be a strong contributor of a winning team. I don't see why he wouldn't.
So, ya, maybe adding him will only make us into a bubble team. So? Maybe the year after that, we make other additions and become even better.
It's not because he won't make us into a contender next year that we should just pass up on him.

Cole and Plek aren't making us into contenders. Shall we trade them? None of our players are, shall we trade all of them?
You bring in key pieces one at a time. Right now, we're lacking raw talent and skill up front and goal scoring. Semin responds to both those needs.

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07-23-2012, 12:49 PM
  #303
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You mean like the Kings?

Islanders, Edmonton and Columbus certainly have no problem ''doing what it takes'' to win championships. So far nada.

There is no one way to build a cup. You also don't go from lottery team to contender in a year (unless you shouldn't have been there in the first place, like Philly).
You get good early picks, bring in quality free agents, and build winners.

Semin can be a strong contributor of a winning team. I don't see why he wouldn't.
So, ya, maybe adding him will only make us into a bubble team. So? Maybe the year after that, we make other additions and become even better.
It's not because he won't make us into a contender next year that we should just pass up on him.

Cole and Plek aren't making us into contenders. Shall we trade them? None of our players are, shall we trade all of them?
You bring in key pieces one at a time. Right now, we're lacking raw talent and skill up front and goal scoring. Semin responds to both those needs.
You can't bring up a team like the Kings, who only went after the complementary peices after they drafted guys like Kopitar, Quick, Doughty, Johnson and Schenn. We don't have the core to build around yet. You don't add the leather upholstery to a car before the frame is finished and you don't bring in complementary pieces before you have the core in place.

Guys like Bourque and Kaberle were also seen as complementary pieces. Now, they're scape-goats.

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07-23-2012, 12:54 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Captain Smurf View Post
You can't bring up a team like the Kings, who only went after the complementary peices after they drafted guys like Kopitar, Quick, Doughty, Johnson and Schenn. We don't have the core to build around yet. You don't add the leather upholstery to a car before the frame is finished and you don't bring in complementary pieces before you have the core in place.

Guys like Bourque and Kaberle were also seen as complementary pieces. Now, they're scape-goats.
Some will argue that Price, Patches, Subban, Plekanec and Markov makes up for a hell of a core.

Add in complementary pieces such as Cole, Gorges, Moen, Prust, DD, Eller and we're actually a good team.

What gave LA and NJ an edge this year? The addition of a coach and some players.

What if Galchenyuk turns out to be a Landeskog ? What if he wins the Calder ? Sure you can be super negative and all.

We're not that bad of a team. But at the same time we're that bad of a team.

Depends on so many things.

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07-23-2012, 01:00 PM
  #305
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We've definitely entered the boring part of summer.

Has there been ANY news whatsoever on Andrei Kostitsyn? Still early, but I was expecting him to be scooped up by a team like NYI or Columbus by now.

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07-23-2012, 01:00 PM
  #306
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Just get into the playoffs.

Once there everyone is a contender. You never know what can happen, you ride a hot goalie, you have players go on a career tear, key injuries to other teams, and the list goes on.

Just get in.

Now, that doesn't mean that you should ignore long-term playing either.

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Old
07-23-2012, 01:01 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Some will argue that Price, Patches, Subban, Plekanec and Markov makes up for a hell of a core.

Add in complementary pieces such as Cole, Gorges, Moen, Prust, DD, Eller and we're actually a good team.

What gave LA and NJ an edge this year? The addition of a coach and some players.

What if Galchenyuk turns out to be a Landeskog ? What if he wins the Calder ? Sure you can be super negative and all.

We're not that bad of a team. But at the same time we're that bad of a team.

Depends on so many things.
NJ - We don't have a Parise/Kovy duo, or anything that matches that. I also doubt we have a coaching staff that competes with the one NJ assembled last season.
LA - we don't have a Kopitar, or aywhere near the offensive depth the Kings have. Semin wouldn't change that.

I'm definitely not trying to be negative, in fact I could totally see a scenario where the Habs make the playoffs and even make some noise. However, when your comparing your team that just finished 3rd last to the cup finalists and you can't see the obvious differences then you need to take a step back.

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07-23-2012, 01:01 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
We've definitely entered the boring part of summer.

Has there been ANY news whatsoever on Andrei Kostitsyn? Still early, but I was expecting him to be scooped up by a team like NYI or Columbus by now.
No news. We should ask the insiders...that would be fun.....Yet, if he'd be that interested in going in the KHL, you'd think he would have done it already. Somehow, we thought that the Suter/Parise would start another "frenzy", seems to me that we'd have to wait till the Doan and Nash deals go through to then see others signing like Kosty and Semin.

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07-23-2012, 01:05 PM
  #309
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Just get into the playoffs.

Once there everyone is a contender. You never know what can happen, you ride a hot goalie, you have players go on a career tear, key injuries to other teams, and the list goes on.

Just get in.

Now, that doesn't mean that you should ignore long-term playing either.
I don't agree with that as it seems to be a kneejerk reaction based on LA winning. Just like when Leighton and Niemi went to the Cup and suddenly, you didn't need great goalies to go in anymore and so on.....Yes, exceptions will happen. But solely going in to go in, I can go back in time a whole lot of years, and chances are you'll find more 8th seed being eliminated in 5 games in the 1st round than them winning cups or go real far.

Besides, the anomality was not the Kings being a 8th seed and winning. It was them being a 8th seed. A whole lot of people prior to this year were saying that the Kings would go real far and that's before the new additions. It's them underperforming during the regular season that was surprising. Not them winning.

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07-23-2012, 01:15 PM
  #310
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And unfortunately we're coming off a season where an 8th seed won the Cup, so that naturally creates some expectation that all you have to do is sneak into the playoffs... Except that the Kings are structured nothing like a typical 8th seed, and will probably challenge for a top-3 seed in the west this year if they stay healthy.
Even with a patch job the Habs are a bubble team at best, and that's before we know whether Therrien has a net positive or net negative influence on the roster (my best hope is he's a small net positive; my fear is that he ends up a significant net negative).

We ain't Cup contenders this year. Not even close.
How come? This year they weren't going to make the playoffs until they sign a new coach. Last year, they finished 7th, the year before that 6th, and before that they did not even make the playoffs. And you say they are a top 3 team in the west?


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07-23-2012, 01:16 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You mean like the Kings?

Islanders, Edmonton and Columbus certainly have no problem ''doing what it takes'' to win championships. So far nada.

There is no one way to build a cup. You also don't go from lottery team to contender in a year (unless you shouldn't have been there in the first place, like Philly).
You get good early picks, bring in quality free agents, and build winners.

Semin can be a strong contributor of a winning team. I don't see why he wouldn't.
So, ya, maybe adding him will only make us into a bubble team. So? Maybe the year after that, we make other additions and become even better.
It's not because he won't make us into a contender next year that we should just pass up on him.

Cole and Plek aren't making us into contenders. Shall we trade them? None of our players are, shall we trade all of them?
You bring in key pieces one at a time. Right now, we're lacking raw talent and skill up front and goal scoring. Semin responds to both those needs.
1) The Kings are not a legitimate 8th place team. They underperformed. They are really a top-4 team.

2) New York Islanders have an impoverished owner who can't spend above the cap floor. They are irrelevant.

3) Columbus and Edmonton subscribe to the cult of 8th place. That's why Edmonton has so many bad contracts. That's why Columbus traded for Jeff Carter and signed James Wisniewski. They're obsessed with 8th place over proper rebuilding. Columbus and Edmonton are the leading counterarguments to the loser cult of 8th place.

4) Pleks and Cole should be traded if we're offered a good return. The same is true of Markov, Gionta, Bourque, and Kaberle.

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07-23-2012, 01:20 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Some will argue that Price, Patches, Subban, Plekanec and Markov makes up for a hell of a core.

Add in complementary pieces such as Cole, Gorges, Moen, Prust, DD, Eller and we're actually a good team.

What gave LA and NJ an edge this year? The addition of a coach and some players.

What if Galchenyuk turns out to be a Landeskog ? What if he wins the Calder ? Sure you can be super negative and all.

We're not that bad of a team. But at the same time we're that bad of a team.

Depends on so many things.
What if Galchenyuk turns into Landeskog?
What if we have no injuries this year?
What if Price wins the Vezina?
What if Gomez bounces back?
What if Bourque scores 27 goals again?
What if Desharnais turns into an 80 point center and maintains his pace?
What if Markov returns to his 60 point form?
What if Tinordi rocks at camp and earns a place as a top-4 dmen and excels at shutdown duties?
What if Cole and Pacioretty prove last season was for real and each score 30 goals again?
What if we can again have the best PK in the league?

Seriously, anything is possible... plan the parade !!!

/sarcasm.

More seriously, we should focus on the most likely outcomes and plan accordingly.

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07-23-2012, 01:36 PM
  #313
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I don't agree with that as it seems to be a kneejerk reaction based on LA winning. Just like when Leighton and Niemi went to the Cup and suddenly, you didn't need great goalies to go in anymore and so on.....Yes, exceptions will happen. But solely going in to go in, I can go back in time a whole lot of years, and chances are you'll find more 8th seed being eliminated in 5 games in the 1st round than them winning cups or go real far.

Besides, the anomality was not the Kings being a 8th seed and winning. It was them being a 8th seed. A whole lot of people prior to this year were saying that the Kings would go real far and that's before the new additions. It's them underperforming during the regular season that was surprising. Not them winning.
Kind of agree about the Kings, but I've had this pov for years.

One thing is guaranteed, you don't win the Cup if you're not in the top 8. And if you're not in the top 8, your young players don't get that vital playoff experience.


Last edited by Jigger77: 07-23-2012 at 03:20 PM.
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07-23-2012, 02:20 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Correct. I am focused on winning championships not first round exits.

The real losers are the ones who worship the cult of 8th place. They don't have the balls to try and build a championship team, to do what it takes to win.
The cult of 8th place? Nobody wants to be an 8th place team, but it typically means you have more to work for than perennial losers like the Islanders and Blue Jackets.

Are you telling me by being the laughing stock of the league the Islanders are in the "cult" of tanking? Or does hyperbole only work when it fits your agenda?

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07-23-2012, 02:27 PM
  #315
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The cult of 8th place? Nobody wants to be an 8th place team, but it typically means you have more to work for than perennial losers like the Islanders and Blue Jackets.

Are you telling me by being the laughing stock of the league the Islanders are in the "cult" of tanking? Or does hyperbole only work when it fits your agenda?
OK, some of you have a hard time with this.

1) The Islanders are a bad team because their owner is too poor to spend above the cap floor. They're not relevant. Their position has nothing to do with tanking versus 8th place.

2) Blue Jackets didn't want to be perennial losers. They mortgaged their future for Jeff Carter and signed James Wisniewski. They were aiming for 8th place, not for a proper rebuild. What the Blue Jackets did last summer is equivalent to what some Habs fans want to do when they suggest going after Shane Doan.

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07-23-2012, 02:28 PM
  #316
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Nash to the Rangers.

Waiting on details.

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07-23-2012, 02:31 PM
  #317
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«Rick Nash est échangé aux #Rangers selon TSN»

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07-23-2012, 02:35 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
OK, some of you have a hard time with this.

1) The Islanders are a bad team because their owner is too poor to spend above the cap floor. They're not relevant. Their position has nothing to do with tanking versus 8th place.

2) Blue Jackets didn't want to be perennial losers. They mortgaged their future for Jeff Carter and signed James Wisniewski. They were aiming for 8th place, not for a proper rebuild. What the Blue Jackets did last summer is equivalent to what some Habs fans want to do when they suggest going after Shane Doan.
No team aims for 8th place. If anything the Kings show a team that took the moves necessary to go from a playoff bubble team to a contender - only for them to have a very unlucky season. But there's no magic formula that you forfeit when you reach 8th place. This team is no less mediocre now after getting one of those precious lotto picks than it was before Gauthier destroyed the team.

The only team in the league that seems to go out of their way to be in 8th place is Calgary, and they have been failing at that.

Let's look at the last few teams to finish in 8th place... Sens and Kings last year, Blackhawks and Rangers the year before that, Habs and Avs the year before that, Habs and Ducks the year before that.

Are those teams all losers who should copy the Oilers?

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07-23-2012, 02:41 PM
  #319
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Yeah TSN reports Nash to NYR is a deal in progress.

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07-23-2012, 02:43 PM
  #320
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07-23-2012, 02:55 PM
  #321
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Nash for Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon and 2013 1st

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07-23-2012, 02:59 PM
  #322
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What a bargain for Rink Nash

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07-23-2012, 03:05 PM
  #323
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poor Jackets' fans...

They really couldn't pry any of their TOP young guys out of NY?

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07-23-2012, 03:07 PM
  #324
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You can't bring up a team like the Kings, who only went after the complementary peices after they drafted guys like Kopitar, Quick, Doughty, Johnson and Schenn. We don't have the core to build around yet. You don't add the leather upholstery to a car before ton't fault him e frame is finished and you don't bring in complementary pieces before you have the core in place.

Guys like Bourque and Kaberle were also seen as complementary pieces. Now, they're scape-goats.
IMO you have the wrong slant on Bourque and Kaberle. Bourque was acquired because Cammalleri wasn't doing his job and was mouthing off; the Habs also got a second rounder and a prospect in the deal. Kaberle was brought in because the Habs had a weak PP but still had a chance of making the playoffs. He was acquired at the price of dead wood in the person of Spacek rather than a promising prospect or a draft choice. Sure, those two are unpopular, but Gauthier wanted to salvage something from the season. I don't fault him for those deals or for unloading Gill. The draft choices may end up as part of the core.

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07-23-2012, 03:14 PM
  #325
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1) The Kings are not a legitimate 8th place team. They underperformed. They are really a top-4 team.

2) New York Islanders have an impoverished owner who can't spend above the cap floor. They are irrelevant.

3) Columbus and Edmonton subscribe to the cult of 8th place. That's why Edmonton has so many bad contracts. That's why Columbus traded for Jeff Carter and signed James Wisniewski. They're obsessed with 8th place over proper rebuilding. Columbus and Edmonton are the leading counterarguments to the loser cult of 8th place.

4) Pleks and Cole should be traded if we're offered a good return. The same is true of Markov, Gionta, Bourque, and Kaberle.
1) They still finished 8th and won the cup. They came from 14th in 08-09, to 6th the following year, to 7th, to 8th. I don't care what you think they are. Fact remains they finished 8th. I don't think we're a lottery team now, so adding Semin would make us more than just a bubble team, but that's irrelevant. As of last season, we are a lotto team, just like the Kings were 8th.

2) So what? Nashville didn't have a problem being considered contenders last year despite not spending a lot.

3) What bad contracts do the Oilers have? Horcoff? That's it. You think those teams purposely give out bad contracts? Carter didn't work in CLB because the guy didn't want to be there. Wiz got overpaid just like the majority of free agents. Those teams aren't obsessed with making the POs, they're just poorly managed.
I fail to see how signing Semin is a bad move. Really, you have not brought forth one argument for it. The guy would instantly improve this team. Your suggestion, in a nutshell, is to not improve our team so we can *hopefully* improve it even more later. Hopefully.
That's sound logic...

4) Let's just trade the whole team except Price and PK.

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