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Visnovsky trying to void trade to Isles - UPDATE: More Drama (post #510)

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Old
07-23-2012, 11:35 AM
  #51
ScaredStreit
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Not Snow's fault (and I'm one of the biggest Snow haters around). Vis should act like a professional. Smyth didn't want to play here-but he sucked it up (and was actually our best player when he was on the team). That's how you should do it.

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07-23-2012, 11:37 AM
  #52
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Holy overreaction. I guess this explains what it was a 2013 pick that was dealt and not a 2012 pick.

Look, this is no big deal. I can't see how this is a fight Visnovsky is going to win. It just may tip off the fact that he may not report. Which could have happened anyway.

Every year the arena situation remains unsolved, things like this are going to happen. To act surprised and supremely disappointed at this point is a bit much.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
07-23-2012, 11:41 AM
  #53
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At this point, he is going to play poorly for us, disheartened, whereas others would see this as a chance at career rehabilitation (his 2011/12 numbers were weak), he is seeing it as hell.

Snow is not at fault. Snow might as well trade him to Detroit or some place that did not get Suter for prospects and sign Gilroy and write another season off at this point. Without Viz, Carkner is now in the top 4.

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Old
07-23-2012, 11:41 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
HOW is this Snow's fault?????????
It's Wang and Snow's fault. This team is such a joke that nobody wants to play for them. If you were Viz, would you want to play for a team with a $28m payroll? The only reason the Isles picked up Viz is because his cap hit is higher than his salary.

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07-23-2012, 11:44 AM
  #55
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I don't think this is Snow's fault. This is 100% on Visnosky. And from the looks of it, he's not going to win this one. Staple tweeted a few times afterwards and explained he doesn't have much to work with to try to void it.

It's unprofessional and stupid. HOWEVER, these guys are not blind. They see the same things that we see. Besides his addition, this offseason has been nothing different than the joke it was last season. Bunch of useless players near the end of the careers and AHL additions. That's about it. I don't think it's right, but I can understand him looking at the situation and being like "****, this team is going to suck this year" and then doing this as a way to try to get out.

I'm not trying to bring Snow into this. We had another abysmal offseason. Whether it be players don't want to play here, they were demanding too much money, whatever. We didn't improve much at all. That's the fact of the matter. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors and in those phone calls, so I don't think you can really blame Snow simply because we have no idea what the circumstances of any signings/non-signings were.

Visnosky clearly knows we didn't improve much as well. While obviously extremely unrealistic, just as an example is there any chance this would be happening if we signed Parise, Suter, Semin, etc? I think not.

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07-23-2012, 11:44 AM
  #56
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Probably most players who have some kind of no trade or movement clause have the Islanders first on their can't be traded to list.

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Old
07-23-2012, 11:48 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by majormet View Post
At this point, he is going to play poorly for us, disheartened, whereas others would see this as a chance at career rehabilitation (his 2011/12 numbers were weak), he is seeing it as hell.
Strongly disagree. You just don't know what he's looking for. He's an older guy, apparently not an idiot, and certainly has no reputation for being emotional. Maybe someone (not saying Snow) was dishonest with him, or broke their word. Maybe he wants some sort of restitution for that.

I strongly doubt he shows up and dogs it. I think it more likely he shows and gives his all, or (simply) retires.

I mean, God knows, maybe NYI asked him to do this. Maybe he plans to retire, he feels betrayed by the Ducks, enough to help NYI get their pick back.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
07-23-2012, 11:53 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
HOW is this Snow's fault?????????

The NHL reviews all trades and the contracts of players being traded to make sure everything is OK.

The trade happened in late June and the punk is saying something NOW???? This is ALL Visnovsky. All of it. It has NOTHING to do with Snow, Wang, the Islanders.

The Islanders are not even involved in the arbitration. Visnovsky is taking the Ducks to arbitration.

Snow can't talk to a particular player before a trade and say, " oh, excuse me, before I make this deal, do you want to play here?"

Snow or any GM works to make his team better. Snow did that and 95% of the people on the message boards thought it was a solid deal. Now suddenly, its not because the player is being a gutless puke?

Please... that is not right, and not fair.

Snow may have made mistakes and Wang is certainly no genius, but lets be real about laying blame. Was taking Nabokov off waivers a bad choice? Of course not. We had massive injuries to our goalies and we needed one. Any GM would have done the same in that circumstance. Was it Snow's fault that he did not report?

My ire is pointed where it should be and Vishnovsky. NOT at Garth Snow.
when reading the posts here, i'm not seeing too much snow hate for visnovsky not wanting to report. i agree with you that would be a ridiculous stance.

what some posters here ARE suggesting is that he has assembled a lousy roster and has done very little this summer to address any of the many areas of shortcomings on the roster. that is my understanding, at least...

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Old
07-23-2012, 11:55 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
It's Wang and Snow's fault. This team is such a joke that nobody wants to play for them. If you were Viz, would you want to play for a team with a $28m payroll? The only reason the Isles picked up Viz is because his cap hit is higher than his salary.
Tavares is nobody?
Matt Moulson is nobody?
Nabokov, Grabner, Neilsen, Okposo all re-signed deals here the later three long terms deals.

They too are all nobody too I suppose?

Come on.....

It sucks, I get it. And its easy to be emotional and dejected but its far to easy to make statements like this.

Vishnovsky is being a punk just like Muller was years ago and Nabokov was a few seasons ago. But Nabokov liked it so much he CHOSE to stay. He could have gotten a nice deal elsewhere but he wants to stay here.

And YES I would play for ANY TEAM that trades for me. I would HONOR the contract that I signed. And I would not be full of double talk. He says he wants to play here in June and now he doesn't? You're right I can see how that's Snow's fault.

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07-23-2012, 12:03 PM
  #60
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Garth will toll his contract. Screw him if he doesn't want to play here.

I was a big fan of this trade, but now I would rather have our second rounder back than a 35 year old "character" player.

Are you listening to this Kate Murray?

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Old
07-23-2012, 12:05 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
It sucks, I get it. And its easy to be emotional and dejected but its far to easy to make statements like this.

Vishnovsky is being a punk just like Muller was years ago and Nabokov was a few seasons ago. But Nabokov liked it so much he CHOSE to stay. He could have gotten a nice deal elsewhere but he wants to stay here.

And YES I would play for ANY TEAM that trades for me. I would HONOR the contract that I signed. And I would not be full of double talk. He says he wants to play here in June and now he doesn't? You're right I can see how that's Snow's fault.


Irony apparently missed.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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07-23-2012, 12:08 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
Tavares is nobody?
Matt Moulson is nobody?
Nabokov, Grabner, Neilsen, Okposo all re-signed deals here the later three long terms deals.

They too are all nobody too I suppose?

Come on.....

It sucks, I get it. And its easy to be emotional and dejected but its far to easy to make statements like this.

Vishnovsky is being a punk just like Muller was years ago and Nabokov was a few seasons ago. But Nabokov liked it so much he CHOSE to stay. He could have gotten a nice deal elsewhere but he wants to stay here.

And YES I would play for ANY TEAM that trades for me. I would HONOR the contract that I signed. And I would not be full of double talk. He says he wants to play here in June and now he doesn't? You're right I can see how that's Snow's fault.
The one part I disagree with is Nabakov probably would not have gotten a nice deal elsewhere and saw the writing on the wall. But he did think enough of the team and/or area to stick around.

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Old
07-23-2012, 12:11 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
They too are all nobody too I suppose?
Please, now. The situation is different with those players. With the exception of Nabokov, they're all young players, drafted by the team, with little to no leverage. This is all they know.

Viz is a grown man who's been around the league. He knows that the team stinks, has stunk for a long time and is being neglected. The Isles had to practically put a gun to Nabokov's career to get him to play here. Viz is reacting the same way. Maybe after being with the team, the perception can change. But to an outsider, it's a joke. That's just reality.

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07-23-2012, 12:11 PM
  #64
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What an Ahole. What was the point of disclosing the Satan info?

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Old
07-23-2012, 12:12 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by HersheyHockey View Post
I don't think this is Snow's fault. This is 100% on Visnosky. And from the looks of it, he's not going to win this one. Staple tweeted a few times afterwards and explained he doesn't have much to work with to try to void it.

It's unprofessional and stupid. HOWEVER, these guys are not blind. They see the same things that we see. Besides his addition, this offseason has been nothing different than the joke it was last season. Bunch of useless players near the end of the careers and AHL additions. That's about it. I don't think it's right, but I can understand him looking at the situation and being like "****, this team is going to suck this year" and then doing this as a way to try to get out.

I'm not trying to bring Snow into this. We had another abysmal offseason. Whether it be players don't want to play here, they were demanding too much money, whatever. We didn't improve much at all. That's the fact of the matter. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors and in those phone calls, so I don't think you can really blame Snow simply because we have no idea what the circumstances of any signings/non-signings were.

Visnosky clearly knows we didn't improve much as well. While obviously extremely unrealistic, just as an example is there any chance this would be happening if we signed Parise, Suter, Semin, etc? I think not.
I agree with you on the Visnovsky comments, but I can't see how the other additions to the Isles this offseason are "a joke" or we added "career AHLers or players at the end of their careers."

Boyes and Carkner are NHL players. Boulton is an NHL player. I agree they are not Suter or Parise but we had ZERO chance at getting either player.

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07-23-2012, 12:25 PM
  #66
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What an Ahole. What was the point of disclosing the Satan info?
I'm speculating, of course...but I think Visnovsky and Miro are close. They're similar in age, both grew up in Topol'cany, and played for the same team over the last lockout. Miro thinks very highly of this organization and Long Island and was probably used to help make Visnovsky comfortable with coming here since there were rumors early on that he wouldn't report.

Miro knows Garth and probably has been interested in returning if the Isles would have him. I suspect Garth is waiting to see how the roster shapes out before giving Miro a contract...or has told him he can attend camp and it's just not being made official yet. I'd rather have someone else other than Miro...but he's a player I've always liked and wouldn't mind seeing him at least get a tryout.

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07-23-2012, 12:25 PM
  #67
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Who do you expect him to add? It is pretty clear that nobody wants to come to this team. Players that play here like it, but Snow has no chance to add free agents or players with a no-trade. I am still pissed at him for letting PAP go, but lets be real, unless you are willing to badly overpay on the trade market, you aren't getting anyone else right now.
Good players move on the trade market all the time. Snow is never involved in any of those deals, except for the rare piece of cap circumvention. Obviously Wang is at the root of the problem, but I can't see how Snow's record can be defended at this point.

There's a lot more to be said, but I don't want to completely derail this thread. I'll just that the Isles are consistently more awful than every other team in the sport -- including the bankrupt one that is operated by the league -- and I don't see why the guy who puts the team together should escape criticism.

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07-23-2012, 12:28 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
I agree with you on the Visnovsky comments, but I can't see how the other additions to the Isles this offseason are "a joke" or we added "career AHLers or players at the end of their careers."

Boyes and Carkner are NHL players. Boulton is an NHL player. I agree they are not Suter or Parise but we had ZERO chance at getting either player.
Boyes had a whopping 23 points last year, and Carkner is a bottom pairing defenseman at best.

Adding those two (plus Miro Satan, perhaps) to a team that spent almost the entire year in the basement isn't going to get it done. And pretending that they will push the Isles up the standings is a joke.

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07-23-2012, 12:42 PM
  #69
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I'm speculating, of course...but I think Visnovsky and Miro are close. They're similar in age, both grew up in Topol'cany, and played for the same team over the last lockout. Miro thinks very highly of this organization and Long Island and was probably used to help make Visnovsky comfortable with coming here since there were rumors early on that he wouldn't report.

Miro knows Garth and probably has been interested in returning if the Isles would have him. I suspect Garth is waiting to see how the roster shapes out before giving Miro a contract...or has told him he can attend camp and it's just not being made official yet. I'd rather have someone else other than Miro...but he's a player I've always liked and wouldn't mind seeing him at least get a tryout.
Good point about Satan being a lure, to make Vis more comfortable.

I don't really want Satan back. How many reclaimation projects can we stick on the wing?

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07-23-2012, 12:45 PM
  #70
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Good players move on the trade market all the time. Snow is never involved in any of those deals, except for the rare piece of cap circumvention. Obviously Wang is at the root of the problem, but I can't see how Snow's record can be defended at this point.

There's a lot more to be said, but I don't want to completely derail this thread. I'll just that the Isles are consistently more awful than every other team in the sport -- including the bankrupt one that is operated by the league -- and I don't see why the guy who puts the team together should escape criticism.
Smyth, ehrhoff, visnovsky are all solid players he traded for, moulson, grabner, parenteau, Nabokov were all very goo pick ups off of the "garbage" heap, he's signed a bunch of young potential impact players to team friendly long term deals.

But yeah, no he sucks.

To people who believe that it's been snows fault for not getting FAR' to sign here I think this should be the nail in the coffin to that argument. Players just don't want to play here, even when they are forced to be here via trade. The islanders were rebuilding for a long time, that's why their roster was bad the last few years... As a star player would you want to go to the rebuilding team or the team who could win now? Pretty obvious there. People need to wake up and see that while snow sure as heck aint perfect, hes not anywhere close to bein the problem

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07-23-2012, 01:05 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
HOW is this Snow's fault?????????

The NHL reviews all trades and the contracts of players being traded to make sure everything is OK.

The trade happened in late June and the punk is saying something NOW???? This is ALL Visnovsky. All of it. It has NOTHING to do with Snow, Wang, the Islanders.

The Islanders are not even involved in the arbitration. Visnovsky is taking the Ducks to arbitration.

Snow can't talk to a particular player before a trade and say, " oh, excuse me, before I make this deal, do you want to play here?"

Snow or any GM works to make his team better. Snow did that and 95% of the people on the message boards thought it was a solid deal. Now suddenly, its not because the player is being a gutless puke?

Please... that is not right, and not fair.

Snow may have made mistakes and Wang is certainly no genius, but lets be real about laying blame. Was taking Nabokov off waivers a bad choice? Of course not. We had massive injuries to our goalies and we needed one. Any GM would have done the same in that circumstance. Was it Snow's fault that he did not report?

My ire is pointed where it should be and Vishnovsky. NOT at Garth Snow.
100% true. This is not Snow, Wang, or anybody connected with the Islanders' fault. They made a deal with Anaheim and the player is unhappy about it. That's bad for the player not the Isles. Every year there are probably tens of trades made where the players involved are unhappy but they don't say so in public and keep their mouths shut and goes about their business of playing hockey.

Trades are part of the game and it is only Vis who's being a fool and will be made to look like one in the end. Unless he refuses to report I don't think the contract can be tolled but he sure as hell didn't make it easy for himself with his new fans behaving like this.

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Old
07-23-2012, 01:08 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by majormet View Post
At this point, he is going to play poorly for us, disheartened, whereas others would see this as a chance at career rehabilitation (his 2011/12 numbers were weak), he is seeing it as hell.

Snow is not at fault. Snow might as well trade him to Detroit or some place that did not get Suter for prospects and sign Gilroy and write another season off at this point. Without Viz, Carkner is now in the top 4.
Nabokov didn't play poorly or disheartened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Strongly disagree. You just don't know what he's looking for. He's an older guy, apparently not an idiot, and certainly has no reputation for being emotional. Maybe someone (not saying Snow) was dishonest with him, or broke their word. Maybe he wants some sort of restitution for that.

I strongly doubt he shows up and dogs it. I think it more likely he shows and gives his all, or (simply) retires.

I mean, God knows, maybe NYI asked him to do this. Maybe he plans to retire, he feels betrayed by the Ducks, enough to help NYI get their pick back.

Cheers,

Dan-o


I'm not mad right now, I actually have no emotion for this. It is what it is. As of right now, it appears he has no case so it's nothing to worry about given the NHL didn't do anything about it at the time and he waited a month anyway. He'll come to camp and all will be forgiven and forgotten.

If he loses the case and goes to Europe, that's different but I don't think that will happen at all.

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07-23-2012, 01:10 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
HOW is this Snow's fault?????????

The NHL reviews all trades and the contracts of players being traded to make sure everything is OK.

The trade happened in late June and the punk is saying something NOW???? This is ALL Visnovsky. All of it. It has NOTHING to do with Snow, Wang, the Islanders.

The Islanders are not even involved in the arbitration. Visnovsky is taking the Ducks to arbitration.

Snow can't talk to a particular player before a trade and say, " oh, excuse me, before I make this deal, do you want to play here?"

Snow or any GM works to make his team better. Snow did that and 95% of the people on the message boards thought it was a solid deal. Now suddenly, its not because the player is being a gutless puke?

Please... that is not right, and not fair.

Snow may have made mistakes and Wang is certainly no genius, but lets be real about laying blame. Was taking Nabokov off waivers a bad choice? Of course not. We had massive injuries to our goalies and we needed one. Any GM would have done the same in that circumstance. Was it Snow's fault that he did not report?

My ire is pointed where it should be and Vishnovsky. NOT at Garth Snow.
Visnovsky may still like the Islanders, it could just be a principals thing, for both him and more specifically the PA. They could be forcing his hand to go to arbitration for future cases of misunderstanding/miscommunication.

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07-23-2012, 01:11 PM
  #74
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Satan?!?!?!? Really???


I guess if we needed a vet presence I could live with him.

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07-23-2012, 01:15 PM
  #75
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It's always interesting with the Isles. Vis the latest to give us the Heisman.

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