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2012 Minnesota #3 Prospect

View Poll Results: Who is the #3 Minnesota Wild Prospect?
Brett Bulmer 3 2.42%
Raphael Bussieres 0 0%
Charlie Coyle 61 49.19%
Tyler Cuma 0 0%
John Draeger 0 0%
Mathew Dumba 30 24.19%
Adam Gilmour 0 0%
Matt Hackett 1 0.81%
Steven Kampfer 0 0%
Darcy Kuemper 1 0.81%
Johan Larsson 11 8.87%
Mario Lucia 0 0%
Zack Phillips 2 1.61%
Jason Zucker 15 12.10%
Other (please explain) 0 0%
Voters: 124. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-23-2012, 02:15 AM
  #151
Fel 96
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Can't wait for the next poll.

Should be an interesting battle...

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Old
07-23-2012, 09:08 AM
  #152
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I still don't understand the Coyle love. So he beat up on some kids, so did Phillips, but Zack did it with skill, not size. Remember, while Coyle can push around and dominate a bunch of 16-18 year olds, that's not going to happen at the nhl level because he's not that big. Every single positive thing you could say about Coyle is long range potential instead of actual attributes. It's all what he might maybe develop later down the line. I stand by my earlier comment, Coyle will be this team's Gilles. We'll look back in a few years and wonder how we could have been so convinced he'd put it together while being thankful he's gone.

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07-23-2012, 09:16 AM
  #153
Dr Jan Itor
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The Q has an 18 year old age limit? Weird how Coyle was able to get in there at 19.

And, what the hell, I looked it up (kind of). Chose 3 teams at random and looked at the ages for the 2011-12 season:

Val-d'Or Foreurs
Age 16 - 2
Age 17 - 5
Age 18 - 4
Age 19 - 11
Age 20+ - 10

Moncton
Age 16 - 0
Age 17 - 7
Age 18 - 10
Age 19 - 12
Age 20+ - 9

Shawinigan
Age 16 - 0
Age 17 - 4
Age 18 - 9
Age 19 - 13
Age 20+ - 12

Add the fact that Coyle was 19 until March of 2012 and I don't think Coyle "pushed around and dominated a bunch of 16-18 year olds."


Last edited by Dr Jan Itor: 07-23-2012 at 10:16 AM.
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Old
07-23-2012, 10:33 AM
  #154
Victorious Secret
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Nice graphic. Expected more youngsters.

We gettin' poll #4 going soon?

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Old
07-23-2012, 10:47 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
The Q has an 18 year old age limit? Weird how Coyle was able to get in there at 19.

And, what the hell, I looked it up (kind of). Chose 3 teams at random and looked at the ages for the 2011-12 season:

Val-d'Or Foreurs
Age 16 - 2
Age 17 - 5
Age 18 - 4
Age 19 - 11
Age 20+ - 10

Moncton
Age 16 - 0
Age 17 - 7
Age 18 - 10
Age 19 - 12
Age 20+ - 9

Shawinigan
Age 16 - 0
Age 17 - 4
Age 18 - 9
Age 19 - 13
Age 20+ - 12

Add the fact that Coyle was 19 until March of 2012 and I don't think Coyle "pushed around and dominated a bunch of 16-18 year olds."
That's wholly a semantic claim and you know it. The average 19 year old isn't any bigger. If you wanted to argue the point, you'd look at the average height/weight as age here is just a proxy for those measures. Furthermore its pretty ridiculous to say 20+ for age, and belies the error in your age calculation. Players in the CHL must be 20 or younger on December 31 of each season or they ate ineligible for the league.

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07-23-2012, 10:56 AM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
I still don't understand the Coyle love. So he beat up on some kids, so did Phillips, but Zack did it with skill, not size. Remember, while Coyle can push around and dominate a bunch of 16-18 year olds, that's not going to happen at the nhl level because he's not that big. Every single positive thing you could say about Coyle is long range potential instead of actual attributes. It's all what he might maybe develop later down the line. I stand by my earlier comment, Coyle will be this team's Gilles. We'll look back in a few years and wonder how we could have been so convinced he'd put it together while being thankful he's gone.
This could actually be the case.

Though i dont hope he is the next Gillies..

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07-23-2012, 10:57 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
That's wholly a semantic claim and you know it. The average 19 year old isn't any bigger. If you wanted to argue the point, you'd look at the average height/weight as age here is just a proxy for those measures. Furthermore its pretty ridiculous to say 20+ for age, and belies the error in your age calculation. Players in the CHL must be 20 or younger on December 31 of each season or they ate ineligible for the league.
So now he's not beating up on 16-18 year olds, he's beating up on 19 and 20 year olds with the body frames of 16-18 year olds?

The majority of the players he was playing against were 18-20. He entered the Q at 19. It wasn't some sort of distinct advantage where he was beating up on high school juniors or something.

And I said 20+ to account for the two players that whose ages were listed at 21 via eliteprospects.com. That's where I got my information, you can check it if you'd like.

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07-23-2012, 11:04 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
So now he's not beating up on 16-18 year olds, he's beating up on 19 and 20 year olds with the body frames of 16-18 year olds?

The majority of the players he was playing against were 18-20. He entered the Q at 19. It wasn't some sort of distinct advantage where he was beating up on high school juniors or something.

And I said 20+ to account for the two players that whose ages were listed at 21 via eliteprospects.com. That's where I got my information, you can check it if you'd like.
As I said, it belied the error in your numbers, you tried to argue all these players were a full year older than they were because your numbers used their age on the final day of the memorial cup, not their age in the season. He played against 17-19 year olds as a 19-20 year old. He's well beyond the average size at his age. Every single mention of him talks about him using his size to play his game. Nhl players are not meaningfully smaller than him. He won't be able to use a size advantage because he doesn't have one.

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07-23-2012, 11:04 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
I still don't understand the Coyle love. So he beat up on some kids, so did Phillips, but Zack did it with skill, not size. Remember, while Coyle can push around and dominate a bunch of 16-18 year olds, that's not going to happen at the nhl level because he's not that big. Every single positive thing you could say about Coyle is long range potential instead of actual attributes. It's all what he might maybe develop later down the line. I stand by my earlier comment, Coyle will be this team's Gilles. We'll look back in a few years and wonder how we could have been so convinced he'd put it together while being thankful he's gone.
I understand the love but do too think its a little overblown. Personally, I prefer Larsson.

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07-23-2012, 11:12 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
As I said, it belied the error in your numbers, you tried to argue all these players were a full year older than they were because your numbers used their age on the final day of the memorial cup, not their age in the season. He played against 17-19 year olds as a 19-20 year old. He's well beyond the average size at his age. Every single mention of him talks about him using his size to play his game. Nhl players are not meaningfully smaller than him. He won't be able to use a size advantage because he doesn't have one.
Well, if we want to keep getting technical about it, he played against 17-19 year olds at 19 and 18-20 year olds at 20. Yes, he was on the higher end of the age scale, but he definitely wasn't alone up there.

You can still be 6-2 230 lbs and use your size against NHLers.

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07-23-2012, 11:23 AM
  #161
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It's Coyle, but I think he's going to be a lot more of a regular NHLer than people think. I think he pans out as a 2nd line, 15-20 goal, 40-50 point winger.

I'm up for revision if he can dominate in the AHL, but he needs to do that first. I don't think he's "NHL ready" this year.

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07-23-2012, 12:19 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Well, if we want to keep getting technical about it, he played against 17-19 year olds at 19 and 18-20 year olds at 20. Yes, he was on the higher end of the age scale, but he definitely wasn't alone up there.

You can still be 6-2 230 lbs and use your size against NHLers.
That's a big boy no matter what League he plays in....

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07-23-2012, 12:31 PM
  #163
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Coyle will use his frame just fine in front of, and around, the net at any level as I think he's got a good feel for those areas of the ice. However, in the games I've watched of him, I don't think he uses his combination of size and skating ability to the degree that he could on other parts of the ice.

In the end, we're talking about a fraction of his game and he's still a very young kid...

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07-23-2012, 12:36 PM
  #164
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That's a big boy no matter what League he plays in....
Exactly, and he's even more valuable to a team like the Wild because we don't have alot of big bodies to begin with.

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07-23-2012, 12:40 PM
  #165
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My ultimate hope is that Coyle can utilize his size and strength and bring to the Wild what Dustin Brown brings to the LAK.

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07-23-2012, 01:28 PM
  #166
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The list of true freshman who have put up PPG numbers in the WCHA over the past 5-10 years is a small and good one. You're talking about guys like Statsny, Okposo, Toews, Parise, Heatley and Kessel.
This is probably the best case you can make for Zucker.

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07-23-2012, 02:06 PM
  #167
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Nice graphic. Expected more youngsters.

We gettin' poll #4 going soon?
Yep.

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07-23-2012, 02:14 PM
  #168
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If i could vote () I'd say Coyle myself, but right there is Hackett and Larsson, 4 and 5 for me, and both could make a bigger impact before Coyle, but Coyle's ceiling is the highest i feel.

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07-23-2012, 02:49 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
I still don't understand the Coyle love. So he beat up on some kids, so did Phillips, but Zack did it with skill, not size. Remember, while Coyle can push around and dominate a bunch of 16-18 year olds, that's not going to happen at the nhl level because he's not that big. Every single positive thing you could say about Coyle is long range potential instead of actual attributes. It's all what he might maybe develop later down the line. I stand by my earlier comment, Coyle will be this team's Gilles. We'll look back in a few years and wonder how we could have been so convinced he'd put it together while being thankful he's gone.
Last time i checked Gillies was predicted to be a grinder from the day he was drafted. Also Coyle almost put up more goals (17) in 23 playoff games then Gillies did (23) in his best full season in the WHL.

Also considering Coyle's track record among his peers at the WJC where he has done nothing but impress makes it pretty clear that while he has "Long Term" potential. There is plenty of attributes and skill in him right now and he is maybe our second most NHL ready prospect we have behind Granlund.

Furthermore Coyle is just as skilled(if not more skilled) as Phillips AND he has the size. Why do you think NHL scouts have salivated over him??

Heck the kid could make the team this year and make you eat your words.

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07-23-2012, 03:06 PM
  #170
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Yeah, Gillies didn't dominate at all. Coyle did. Gillies was 47 points in 58 games compared to Coyle's 38 points in 23 games. Massive, massive difference, even accounting for high scoring in the Q.

Also, Coyle with 6 points in 6 WJC games compared to Gillies' 1 point in 7 games.

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