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How much do Flyers need to "sweeten" the deal for Nashville?

View Poll Results: What additional pieces should the Flyers offer to prevent the Preds from matching?
Meszaros and Gus/Bourdon 19 15.20%
Meszaros, Gus/Bourdon and Laughton/Cousins 10 8.00%
Meszaros, Gus/Bourdon and Voracek/Read/Simmonds 27 21.60%
Couturier/Schenn 8 6.40%
Coburn+/++ 2 1.60%
Nothing at all / call their bluff 59 47.20%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-23-2012, 11:51 AM
  #51
Damaged Goods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Yeah, it does depend on how able they are to do it. If they aren't able at all and the Flyers know it, they don't have much right to ask for Coburn. If they're close enough that it's a 50/50 swing and they're leaning towards matching, I don't see Voracek+Mez really changing their minds. I like Mez, but he's not really that good.
-I'm probably higher on Voracek than you are. I would buy stock in him right now.

-He's not that good, but at least he is properly priced. Weber is going to be grossly overpaid over the next 4-6 years.

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Old
07-23-2012, 11:52 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
I'm probably higher on Voracek than you are. I would be stock in him right now.
I'm really high on Voracek, actually. I'd rather keep him than trade him plus other assets for a Ryan. The thing is, Nashville has a humongous issue with their defense if they lose Weber. Mez wouldn't fix that. He wouldn't give Nashville enough reason to think "yeah, losing Weber is worth it if we can get him too!" I think Coburn does that, though.

Again, assuming Nashville is close enough to matching that they can have these thoughts.

Edit: We both need to stop editing

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07-23-2012, 11:55 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
I'm really high on Voracek, actually. I'd rather keep him than trade him plus other assets for a Ryan. The thing is, Nashville has a humongous issue with their defense if they lose Weber. Mez wouldn't fix that. He wouldn't give Nashville enough reason to think "yeah, losing Weber is worth it if we can get him too!" I think Coburn does that, though.

Again, assuming Nashville is close enough to matching that they can have these thoughts.
We edit our posts too much.

With Meszaros, it's more about the price (which is reasonable).

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Old
07-23-2012, 12:00 PM
  #54
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Not sure where I read it..but Meszaros' back has been described as "ok" which suggests he still not 100%. That is a concern most likely for Nashville....although we bit when they offered us Parent who had a bulging disc.

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07-23-2012, 12:01 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Meszaros, Voracek, gustafsson/bourdon in exchange for 2 1sts
Make it 3 1st rd picks coming back.

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07-23-2012, 12:07 PM
  #56
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Gotta remember that these 1st are likely to be fairly late round, in the 22-30 spot or so, maybe even 25-30 spot over the next 4 years unless they collapse.

Varacek > Late 1st
Meszaros = Late 1st (Maybe even slightly more value)
Bourdon + Gus < Late 1st.

I'd suggest that if these three/four were to go the other way, we should be getting back 3 firsts, otherwise, just let them keep the picks, sign Voracek, and look elsewhere to send Mesz.

I DO NOT want Voracek to be traded, he is becoming to good a player, and with an alternative of sending picks, I take Voarcek, send the picks.

Mesz will be expendable, one of Gus / Bourdon are expendable, one of Cousins/Laughton would be preference over Voracek.

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07-23-2012, 12:15 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
Meltzer proposed the 2013 1st, Meszaros, Voracek and Bourdon/Gustafsson, today. [link]

I think this is pretty much what we will be looking at. However, keep in mind that the trade would ACTUALLY be those 3 players for three of our 1st rnd picks back. Also, no trade can be made until the preds time limit is up because they won't actually have our picks until then. Personally I don't expect the preds to make any move until after Friday and then we will see a trade next Monday for our picks to be returned.

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07-23-2012, 12:38 PM
  #58
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I offer Mez for the 2014 pick. That's it. If they take the picks, not many people will be looking to trade for a pick 2 years for now. At least they get a top 4 d-man that can play 20 minutes a night instead of a crapshoot of a player 2 years from now that might play in 4 years.

And remember, Nashville I'm sure is talking to other teams asking who is available for what price. Kessel got 2 1sts. Nashville would trade 2 picks for a top 10 scorer I bet.


Last edited by Tripod: 07-23-2012 at 12:46 PM.
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Old
07-23-2012, 12:46 PM
  #59
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Voracek is as much sweetener that could be added. Voracek + Mez is as I high as I go. If they say "No, but if you add Schenn or Couturier then we won't match" then I call their bluff.

B Schenn or Couturier isn't "sweetening" the deal, it's pouring 100lbs of pure sugar into the pot.

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07-23-2012, 12:48 PM
  #60
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I only voted for the one because I'd be thinking about trying to being back at least one or two of the firsts.

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07-23-2012, 12:48 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post



At least he's not vastly overpaid (like Weber is going to be). You can't entirely dismiss the value he provides in a trade.
Weber may be overpaid but thats how the market is.
Mez is expendable. Especially if you can land an elite defenseman like Weber.
I know Mez is a good player when hes healthy. Weber is a great player. A Norris trophy caliber defenseman.
I ask again, when was the last time we had a guy like that at his age. been awhile.
If you have to overpay a bit you do it. I would trade Mez and Voracek plus the 2 firsts for him. No questions asked.

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07-23-2012, 12:59 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Meszaros, Voracek, gustafsson/bourdon in exchange for 2 1sts
The way I see it is that if I have two late first rounders that turn out as well as Voracek and Meszaros then I'd be delighted. I think they're worth more than the two picks on their own, let alone adding Gus to it.

Picks are over-rated.

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07-23-2012, 01:06 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
The way I see it is that if I have two late first rounders that turn out as well as Voracek and Meszaros then I'd be delighted. I think they're worth more than the two picks on their own, let alone adding Gus to it.

Picks are over-rated.
Gus doesnt really have a ton of trade value right now. he is a good young player but at this point he would be a throw in to land Weber.
Mez or Gus alone do not have 1st round trade value.

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07-23-2012, 01:12 PM
  #64
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Why not? Meszaros is a damn good d man with a good cap hit. He's worth a late first.

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07-23-2012, 01:23 PM
  #65
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I'd be ok with giving up the 1st or 2nd options, I voted for nothing but that's really because I do not want to see Voracek go at all. Aside from Voracek(22) our natural wingers are Read(25), Simmonds(23), Hartnell(30), Talbot, Fedotenko and Rinaldo or Shelley I guess. And more then likely Talbot is going to be the 4C.

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07-23-2012, 01:29 PM
  #66
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After losing both Jagr and JVR this offseason, I don't think the Flyers can afford to lose another winger in Voracek. Internal growth of young players can only account for so much lost offense.

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07-23-2012, 01:34 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Couturier Post View Post
After losing both Jagr and JVR this offseason, I don't think the Flyers can afford to lose another winger in Voracek. Internal growth of young players can only account for so much lost offense.
Well said, this Weber offer is scaring me a little, just because of the huge cap hit for the next 3-4 years. Where is the room for Voracek?

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07-23-2012, 02:04 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFanz View Post
Well said, this Weber offer is scaring me a little, just because of the huge cap hit for the next 3-4 years. Where is the room for Voracek?
His cap hit is something like 7.8 the next 3 years. Cap hits don't change with annual salary.

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07-23-2012, 02:07 PM
  #69
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The pot needs to be sweeten more now that Nash is in NYR. Sad, but true. I don't want to gamble.

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07-23-2012, 02:43 PM
  #70
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Give up the draft picks...who cares? the Flyers can always get some back with trades later. Flyers have a lot of youth in the organization already and there isn't anyone stellar in the radar for the draft for next year. Flyers have done well with 2nd and further down picks anyway.

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07-23-2012, 03:09 PM
  #71
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The pot needs to be sweeten more now that Nash is in NYR. Sad, but true. I don't want to gamble.
No it doesn't. God damn some people are impatient.

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07-23-2012, 03:14 PM
  #72
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No it doesn't. God damn some people are impatient.
That seems like a "so what if they match" attitude. I don't understand that. Do you want Weber or not? You're acting like you're in a universe where Nashville can't match. Unless you anyone knows that for sure, and no one does but Nashville, it makes no sense to say 4 picks or nothing.

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07-23-2012, 03:14 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
The pot needs to be sweeten more now that Nash is in NYR. Sad, but true. I don't want to gamble.
I beg to differ. If anything, the Nash trade just goes to show how little players really go for when they want out of a place. Nash was essentially dealt for two spare parts, a prospect and a draft pick.

If the Flyers are offering Meszaros and Voracek, then that's more than enough to land Weber. I hope Nashville is watching because the Nash trade just diminished the value of Weber's rights.

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07-23-2012, 03:22 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
That seems like a "so what if they match" attitude. I don't understand that. Do you want Weber or not? You're acting like you're in a universe where Nashville can't match. Unless you anyone knows that for sure, and no one does but Nashville, it makes no sense to say 4 picks or nothing.
I don't think it's a so what if they match attitude. I think Spongolium is bang on on this issue. After the Rick Nash deal, Weber's rights have a lower value than what Nashville may have thought. The fact that Nash essentially went for two spare parts, a prospect and a pick is a sign of what Poile can expect for Weber. Let's not forget either that Nash has a long term contract and Weber is an RFA. I think Poile might have to either swallow really hard and match or take a whole lot less than what he thought he was going to get.

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07-23-2012, 03:25 PM
  #75
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Nashville will not get fair value for Weber, so if they're able to match they will. The most I'd offer is Read + Mez + MAB for 2 of the 1sts back (2014 1st is required). But under no circumstances would I offer Giroux, Couturier, B. Schenn, L. Schenn, or Coburn. If Nashville is hung up on acquiring one or more of those guys, I'd tell them to match the offer sheet.

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